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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Chris,
I've done a quick search with my limited resources (read brain capacity)...
I'm not able to find anything on "no down on el cap" rules...
Friends of YOSAR have something about down on their website
http://www.friendsofyosar.org/safety/climbingSafety.html#other%20notes
Under: BIG WALL BIVOUACS
For insulation, never rely on cotton or down (even if it’s covered with one of the waterproof/breathable fabrics). Even nylon absorbs water. Wool, polypropylene, and polyester insulators stay relatively warm when wet, and synthetics dry fastest. Take along long underwear, warm pants, sweater, jacket, balaclava/hat, gloves, sleeping bag, insulating pad, extra socks or booties, and plenty of food and water – dehydration hastens hypothermia.
Unfortunately... I find nothing when searching NPS regulations, or rules regarding down insulated sleeping bags other than what is noted...
hope it helps answer the question.
Cheers
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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You can be fined after a rescue for "creating a hazardous condition".
It really means that you took an unusual risk.
For example, the guys who rapped down the Nose with only 1 set of ascenders and could not assist each other.
I haven't heard of a fine being used for inadequate bivvy gear.
[But see Pete's recollection and kunlun_shan's reference where he found when this did happen].
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
High Springs, FL
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If you get caught in a storm, stuck on the wall, soaking wet in your down bag the fine will be more than you can pay...but it will be collected.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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the big wall climber from FL knows the score...
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Keep it dry.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Which doesn't make sense....ever try to use a soaked synthetic bag?? Just as useless.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Psyolcyborg, Not true. I spent a night on the New Dawn route this year in a sopping wet polar guard bag and it kept me plenty warm. The bag was so wet that when I sat in it a bunch of water squished out, making a 2 inch deep puddle in my ledge. I sure was glad I didn't have a down bag up there.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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How did you get the bag so wet? Was the climbing that scary? ;)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Just don't light a fire in a "non fire burning spot"!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Synthetics act like wetsuits when you are in the sh#t.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Didn't some Austrian guys get rescued off The Shield back in the 80's or 90's, only had down, and got fined?
Werner?
Chris: Really? You still climb? ;) And when are you getting me that Pro-Traxion 2014 to review for you?
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Each El Cap route completed with down bag
= one feather in cap minus many less feathers in bag
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Synthetics act like wetsuits when you are in the sh#t.
Yep. They bleed water yet retain body-heat. Like a wet-suit!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 10, 2014 - 12:53am PT
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I cleaned my synthetic vest in the tub last week. It was really grungy, but it came clean.
I noticed how much water the thing retained just laying there on the floor of the tub and began expressing water from it with my hand.
A small river poured out.
I kept this up for quite a long time.
It must have held over a gallon of water at first, since it was so heavy.
I could not have lifted it easily and was a little afraid the stitching might blow, so that's why I left it sitting originally, to drain.
But it didn't drain, it just held in all that water!
And so I had to use the method I described.
When TNF introduced Fiberfill II, it was found that it needed backing to hold together over the long haul. Then along came Polarguard, which was fine to use on its own and was just as good, if not better, at retaining its thickness when soaked.
These kinds of bags are MEANT to get soaked.
I have seen melt-water on The Nose in sheets running an inch thick. It's very wet up there, Psilocyborg, as you know. Which would you rather have in a force 3 or 4 blow?
Anyone who takes a down bag on a route is a foolish, over-optimistic person, a PollyAnna.
Don't be a PollyAnna, be a PollyWog.
Be prepared.
It would be a crime if you weren't. :0)
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Nov 10, 2014 - 11:56am PT
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I wonder about the new 'dry down?'
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Nov 10, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
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I've ONLY used down (not because it's best, but because it's what I've had)on more than 100 nights on El Cap. Have weathered two multi-day storms and several smaller ones with little trouble. But I also have a bivy bag as a protective shell for when the weather turns nasty. Rain fly condensation could take out a down bag out in a long storm.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 10, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
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I ONLY use down in Patagonia, but, geez, everyone knows the weather there is much better than in Cali.
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