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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Oct 16, 2018 - 10:28am PT
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That's true. In jury trials multiple witness testimonies can vary considerably.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 18, 2018 - 08:11am PT
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Pat Robertson’s comments are right in line with the pervasive hypocrisy of the religious right...they completely lack a moral compass.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 18, 2018 - 08:59am PT
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An arms deal, it is. Not buildings and bridges and not medicine and health care. Disgusting af, imo.
Yeah, and who figured out how to build all those exotic, high tech weapons? Religious leaders? Doubtful.
Condemning religion because of Pat Robinson is like condemning science because of Dr. Mengele.
As for Post Modernism, you have to remember that P.M. theory is largely a result of the failure of Modernism with its cold, rigid reductivism. A perfect example/metaphor being modernist architecture with its anonymous facades and cold efficiency (Brasilia) that cannot age with any charm and instead only demonstrates its own fallible decay. What did you expect?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 18, 2018 - 09:20am PT
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True....but I do believe that Robertson speaks for a large number of the religious right, which, thankfully, is a minority portion of religious people.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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It's an awful comparison, either a result of confusion or else devised to confuse. Not unlike the statement "atheism is just another religion."***
Mengele abused science (in different terms, he abused knowledge, education, information). Mengele was an abuser of science.
Aware of the full nature and history of religion (its outdatedness, its stagnancy, its supernaturalism and superstitions, its abuses over the centuries) you really think Robertson is only an abuser of religion? [edit: you really think Robertson is the only abuser here, and not religion too?]
When an innovation (in life guidance and community) comes along that replaces religion as it's plainly known, it will be lights out for the latter.
But of course the PaulR's of the world, we can expect, will simply resort to calling it "just another religion" despite it being science-based, science-respecting and not relying on a personal intervening deity at all. Good luck to them in their religion-saving and face-saving attempts.
*** You've probably heard it before, it's pretty common now: Atheism's just another religion in the way abstinence is just another sexual position.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 09:47am PT
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re: religion, science and points of fault
Condemning religion because of Pat Robinson is like condemning science because of Dr. Mengele.
(1) Arts and sciences respecting moderns (like hfcs) criticize (condemn) religion because of its basic nature: foremost, its appeal to intervening gods and theology as a conceptual foundation.
(2) The fault's in Robertson. And given religion's basic nature, the fault's in religion.
(3) and regarding science, the fault's in Mengele; and given science's basic nature, the fault's in Mengele.
We all have our viewpoints. May the best prevail.
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you really think Robertson is only an abuser of religion
Yeah, I should more closely recheck my posts sometimes before posting.
Better: You really think Robertson in the Robertson-religion couplet is the only abuser? You really think religion itself gets the free pass? Perhaps we have different definitions and epistemology of just what "religion" is then.
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Condemning religion because of Pat Robinson...
By the way, who is condemning religion BECAUSE of Pat Robertson? Religion's criticized ("condemned") for its basic nature. In contrast, Robertson's criticized as an example of religious leadership (absence thereof?) in this case for his stance in the KSA Khashoggi affair.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 18, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
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By the way, who is condemning religion BECAUSE of Pat Robertson? Religion's criticized ("condemned") for its basic nature. In contrast, Robertson's criticized as an example of religious leadership (absence thereof?) in this case for his stance in the KSA Khashoggi affair.
So that's religious leadership nowadays.
Better: so that’s (a) single aberrant religious leader today. He is a single religious leader who thinks that most Catholics, Pentecostals, Quakers, Mormons, and a variety of other sects are all going to eternal damnation as heretics.
You don’t like religion because it lacks the historical and scientific accuracy you claim gives us the only viable understanding of reality possible when the “reality” is that religion communicates and promotes a reconciliation with being that science is simply incapable of. I don’t dismiss science and I think it’s just plain myopic to dismiss religion as well.
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Oct 18, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
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Pat Robertson was also advocating assassinating Hugo Chavez at one point. Religions are authoritarian and put loyalty and obedience above all else. Anyone thinking for themselves is a heretic and goes to hell for it. Of course along with the threat of hell is the promise of immortality. Just imagine thinking you're Gods representative on earth, able to discern great truths from ancient texts - too bad its all bullsh#t. No one should be surprised when they abuse their authority and rape little boys.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Trump
climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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We all have our viewpoints. May the best prevail.
So far the human way of creating viewpoints seems to be doing pretty well.
And that way - the way that has given us religion, and racism, and sexism, and science - doesn’t seem to be going away any time soon. Or maybe it does.
May the best (race gender species viewpoint) prevail!
Or make up your own rules, and hope they prevail. Science and men and whites seem to be doing pretty well at the present, but we’ll see what the future brings. The dinosaurs were doing pretty well too, until they weren’t.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Oct 18, 2018 - 03:05pm PT
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Don Paul: Religions are authoritarian and put loyalty and obedience above all else. Anyone thinking for themselves is a heretic and goes to hell for it. Of course along with the threat of hell is the promise of immortality. Just imagine thinking you're Gods representative on earth, able to discern great truths from ancient texts - too bad its all bullsh#t. No one should be surprised when they abuse their authority and rape little boys.
I suppose anyone can say anything about any group. Republicans, Democrats, politicians, teachers, academics, business leaders, nuns, urban planners, dog walkers, handymen, . . . they all have some authority and lord it over others.
No one should be surprised by anything at all. . . unless one were to hold no interpretations or characterizations or generalizations . . . then one would be surprised all the time.
It must be comforting to have so many opinions about so many things. Prosecutor, judge, and jury.
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Trump
climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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No, for the most part we will not see what the future brings.
My viewpoint is to try to take a pretty expansive view of we, but I like your viewpoint too.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Oct 18, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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Righteous indignation vs Geopolitics? Moral accountability vs $7 gasoline? Regime change vs anti-Iranian alliance?
Remember where those 9/11 terrorists came from. Iraq, right?
Why on earth did the journalist freely enter a Saudi embassy when he had made a mortal enemy of MBS? Answer (Wiki):
"Khashoggi was last seen going inside the main entrance of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on 2 October 2018, in order to obtain a document that proved he was divorced.[12] This document would allow him to marry his fiancée, Hatice Cengiz, a Turkish citizen, who waited outside."
A fateful decision.
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Trump
climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
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I’m always tempted to just go for the gold and condemn humans for the petty little tribal bullshit thinking stuff that we all seem to do.
But I prefer not to do that, because that’s a tribe that I’m in too.
My sense is that condemning other people in other tribes - whether based on physical attributes (race or gender) or belief attributes (science vs religion, Democrats vs Republicans, etc.) - is a more advantageous way to roll, for all of us. Well, for each of us, anyway.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 18, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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Mengele represented what fraction of a percentage scientist?
what percentage of the 'religious' does that piece of sh#t?
The hard reality is that Mengele got a percentage of his ideas from the American scientific community which up until the 1930s were fully behind the notion of eugenics and culling the population through forced sterilization among other cruelties, an idea supported on rational scientific grounds by none other than Oliver Wendell Holmes. There are many pieces of "sh#t" as you call them on both sides of the question. Blaming religion for what are essentially the products of universal human frailty makes little sense.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
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You're on a roll, Paul. While you're at it, you might as well diss the science community, and by extension science in general, for generating the knowledge that enabled Columbus and Gang to take advantage of American Indian naivete - to scare and leverage them following that lunar eclipse. You probably know the story.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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Blaming religion for what are essentially the products of universal human frailty makes little sense.
The anti-religious mentality is rooted in a long-standing totalitarian collectivism common on the Left, and this is a thought system inherently incapable of any degree of the healthy compromise indispensable in a democratic society. Their deity is the secular state,their devil are people who don't agree with them. Alexander Solzhenitsyn thought such people to be essentially intolerant sociopaths. Marxism itself is at root cynical, unromantic, and typically presided over by the nearest cabal of grim narcissists whose stock in trade is a type of poorly camouflaged subversion and manipulation of weaker individuals.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Oct 18, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
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and if even one percent of liberals were as you described they would have actually mopped the floor with your kind along time ago
I'm quaking in my boots. What are they going to be armed with, feces and syringes?
Get outta here.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 18, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
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but when organizations are observed taking them and stacking them like domino's in such ways as to transfer vast sums of money out of the poors hands without fair compensation and violence and repression being extend every bit of nourishmarent it takes for them to stay in season
Really? Which of the nearly 4200 religions in the world are guilty of repression and violence? I'm sure you've done a study. Or are your conclusions based on the same rather pathetic generalized prejudices you disparage.
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