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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Oct 18, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
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"heh"
Could this be a tell of whom I think it might be?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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Here's some science too. Thankfully now discredited but forward science based thinking at one time. In the same way that most theologians understand and accept evolution theory today. Yeah, that's 1973.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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Yes, it's disappointing that some can't or won't (a) see the incompatibility between science and religion when it comes to generating knowledge and self-correcting; (b) see there are many ways in culture apart from religion - esp nowadays and many of these ways under furious development and just getting starting - of "promoting reconciliation with being." But where's there's life, there's hope. So maybe in time.
In every movement there are laggards and holdbacks.
But no worries, change is underway. In fact I'm actually happy with its current pace, history-setting after all. Any quicker at the level of culture or civilization would be break-neck speed, arguably dangerously too fast for some.
If only the likes of Galileo, Spinoza, Huygens, Bruno, Aristarchus, Eratosthenes, etc could be resurrected, eh? to partake for awhile in its wonders and glories.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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Here's some science too. -paul roehl
Sheesh, talk about mental block and mental fixation.
But it's important to know this mentality exists. In 21st century America too.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:37am PT
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Yeah that evil, backward religious stuff, all those priests didling kids, all those backward fools, all that corruption. And what are you doing for the less fortunate?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:47am PT
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Higher consciousness beings on this particular planet created gods and religions thousands of years ago in an attempt to give meaning to life and the craving need to believe that life continues after death.
God and religions were also created to explain the natural world's violent storms, crop failures, etc
Very likely other evolved societies on alien planets also created gods and religions for the same purposes.
Increased knowledge has lead to less dependence on religions for answers.
Present day, the "happiest" nations are those with the highest disbelief in religions, such as Norway, Finland, etc, see below link
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/10-happiest-countries-in-the-world-are-among-the-least-religious/127465.htm
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:55am PT
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"Very likely other evolved societies on alien planets also created gods and religions for the same purposes."
Yes, Norton!
Who Watches the Watchers?
Star Trek, TNG
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 19, 2018 - 11:22am PT
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The eugenics board was based on politics, racism, & religion; not science.
You’re mistaken. Best read the “Preface to The Origin of Species,” by Clémence Royer (1862) followed by the “Bell Curve” to get a better understanding. Science was complicit in the eugenics fiasco and in some quarters still is. The point being not that science is evil, but simply the inherent fallibility in all human endeavor, religion or science. It is an error to throw either out as both serve a positive purpose.
Fascinating that some have put aside religion and philosophy for the higher meaning and insight to be found in episodes of Star Trek. I agree that as a species we are in trouble.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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re: science and religion
It is an error to throw either out... -paul roehl
hm.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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Hey, speaking of insights to be found in Star Trek episodes, let's not forget this one... Blink of An Eye.
To Norton's point, it's another favorite as it dealt with gods and mythologies of alien species... and the evolution of religious systems...
Blink of An Eye
A real hum zinger!
"Tahal the Ground Shaker is angry. He must have hated the red fruit. So no more red fruit in the fruit offering. And kill all the red fruit farmers."
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 19, 2018 - 11:36am PT
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If you think that's good you should try Superman Comics. You know the Hero's journey and all that. Lessons on how to live a full and virtuous life.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Oct 19, 2018 - 11:42am PT
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Thanks, Paul.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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If you think that's good you should try Superman Comics. You know the Hero's journey and all that. Lessons on how to live a full and virtuous life. -paul roehl
You know, you speak sarcastically (correct me if I'm wrong) but all the Star Trek and Marvel Studio mythologies, for example,*** are also important genres of literature, storytelling and the humanities.
***it's unclear how many of these you've seen/ perhaps even studied
From it all can be gleaned heuristics for starters, indeed even huge sets of heuristics (rules of thumb) not only for use in navigating life, but for leading your "full and virtuous life" maybe, fate willing, and for aid in your "communicating and promoting reconciliation with being."
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Thanks, Paul. -MikeL
Of course.
lol
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It's a radical idea, Paul. And the current century is adjusting/attuning to it more than any in human history ever has:
Religion no longer required.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
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All you need to accept is that religious systems evolved like everything else, that they will continue to evolve, and at some point they'll speciate under new names and characters and features. In a nutshell, that's it.
Now if you want to continue calling these evolved life management systems "religion" well of course you're free to do that.
But imo you're only fooling yourself if you think "religion" as practiced traditionally in the Abrahamics, say, is the only way to "communicate and promote reconciliation with being."
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
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I do my thing, they do theirs.
So do you follow American politics?
"I do my thing (based on my worldview), they do theirs (based on their worldview)." Which is a main contributing factor in the blue red polarization of our country now.
It could start with: Whatever it takes to overturn Roe vs Wade.
If you care about culture, thus politics, and the directions this country and world are taking,*** you need to look at all scales - from trees to forest to ecological biomes - for the fullest system understanding. What fraction of Sapiens does this?
*** Obviously, some do more than others. To be clear, if some care less, that's there business. I've got no problem with that. But our fates will roll on, for better or worse, you can be sure of that.
Personally I dislike politics. But I'm really into culture - its character and evolution, for eg - so like other like-minded souls, I get pulled into it. Politics, that is. Like aging, it's awful, but what can you do?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 19, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
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Paul Roehl asks
Which of the nearly 4200 religions in the world are guilty of repression and violence?
off the top of my head Islam in the form of ISIS is pretty darn repressive and violent
Paul, from your postings on this thread I recognize you are a strong defender of religion....
but you can't be serious in asking your question
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 19, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
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You people are supposed to be advocating for science and reason yet you insist on taking a small group of people who hate and impose and you assume then that all religions, which are practiced by billions of folks all over the world in a huge variety of forms, are guilty by some sort of strange and inaccurate association. What an unreasonable and unscientific position.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Oct 19, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
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Curious, Paul.
Anything to be learnt, appreciated, or extrapolated from this clip...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uii5WrmChbE
From the Star Trek Universe.
Really the whole episode is fantastic.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXufFVxYAg
A vignette of science and reason (vs pre-science and superstition) in a three minutes clip. How do YOU choose to "communicate and promote reconciliation with being" (Paul R)? For me the choice is clear: I'm with Picard. :)
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Just fantastic. Way to go, Gen Z people!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCTuirkcRwo
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"There was a time when my atheism was about tearing the foundations (like faith) on which religion stood & seeking surrogates for "God." Today, it's about the awe and struggle to make sense of the human and the cosmic. Not unlike what the faithful are seeking." -Milessa Chen
Nice.
The mounting experience: There are many ways in today's world - besides religion - of (a) "promoting reconciliation with being;" (b) handling "the awe and struggle to make sense of the human and the cosmic."
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