The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 18, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
"heh"


Could this be a tell of whom I think it might be?
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:15am PT


Here's some science too. Thankfully now discredited but forward science based thinking at one time. In the same way that most theologians understand and accept evolution theory today. Yeah, that's 1973.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:16am PT
Yes, it's disappointing that some can't or won't (a) see the incompatibility between science and religion when it comes to generating knowledge and self-correcting; (b) see there are many ways in culture apart from religion - esp nowadays and many of these ways under furious development and just getting starting - of "promoting reconciliation with being." But where's there's life, there's hope. So maybe in time.

In every movement there are laggards and holdbacks.

But no worries, change is underway. In fact I'm actually happy with its current pace, history-setting after all. Any quicker at the level of culture or civilization would be break-neck speed, arguably dangerously too fast for some.

If only the likes of Galileo, Spinoza, Huygens, Bruno, Aristarchus, Eratosthenes, etc could be resurrected, eh? to partake for awhile in its wonders and glories.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:20am PT

CATHOLIC EXORCIST HOLDING SPECIAL MASS TO COUNTER WITCHES’ HEX ON KAVANAUGH
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:29am PT
Here's some science too. -paul roehl

Sheesh, talk about mental block and mental fixation.

But it's important to know this mentality exists. In 21st century America too.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:37am PT


Yeah that evil, backward religious stuff, all those priests didling kids, all those backward fools, all that corruption. And what are you doing for the less fortunate?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:43am PT
And what are you doing for the less fortunate? -paul roehl

lol


Do yourself a favor...
https://www.amazon.com/Enlightenment-Now-Science-Humanism-Progress/dp/0241337011


It's data-rich.

What's that saying? Oh yeah: You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:47am PT
Higher consciousness beings on this particular planet created gods and religions thousands of years ago in an attempt to give meaning to life and the craving need to believe that life continues after death.

God and religions were also created to explain the natural world's violent storms, crop failures, etc

Very likely other evolved societies on alien planets also created gods and religions for the same purposes.

Increased knowledge has lead to less dependence on religions for answers.

Present day, the "happiest" nations are those with the highest disbelief in religions, such as Norway, Finland, etc, see below link

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/10-happiest-countries-in-the-world-are-among-the-least-religious/127465.htm
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 10:55am PT
"Very likely other evolved societies on alien planets also created gods and religions for the same purposes."

Yes, Norton!


Who Watches the Watchers?
Star Trek, TNG
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:22am PT
The eugenics board was based on politics, racism, & religion; not science.

You’re mistaken. Best read the “Preface to The Origin of Species,” by Clémence Royer (1862) followed by the “Bell Curve” to get a better understanding. Science was complicit in the eugenics fiasco and in some quarters still is. The point being not that science is evil, but simply the inherent fallibility in all human endeavor, religion or science. It is an error to throw either out as both serve a positive purpose.

Fascinating that some have put aside religion and philosophy for the higher meaning and insight to be found in episodes of Star Trek. I agree that as a species we are in trouble.


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:28am PT
re: science and religion

It is an error to throw either out... -paul roehl


hm.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:32am PT
Hey, speaking of insights to be found in Star Trek episodes, let's not forget this one... Blink of An Eye.

To Norton's point, it's another favorite as it dealt with gods and mythologies of alien species... and the evolution of religious systems...


Blink of An Eye

A real hum zinger!



"Tahal the Ground Shaker is angry. He must have hated the red fruit. So no more red fruit in the fruit offering. And kill all the red fruit farmers."
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:36am PT
If you think that's good you should try Superman Comics. You know the Hero's journey and all that. Lessons on how to live a full and virtuous life.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:42am PT
Thanks, Paul.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:45am PT
If you think that's good you should try Superman Comics. You know the Hero's journey and all that. Lessons on how to live a full and virtuous life. -paul roehl

You know, you speak sarcastically (correct me if I'm wrong) but all the Star Trek and Marvel Studio mythologies, for example,*** are also important genres of literature, storytelling and the humanities.

***it's unclear how many of these you've seen/ perhaps even studied

From it all can be gleaned heuristics for starters, indeed even huge sets of heuristics (rules of thumb) not only for use in navigating life, but for leading your "full and virtuous life" maybe, fate willing, and for aid in your "communicating and promoting reconciliation with being."

...

Thanks, Paul. -MikeL

Of course.

lol

...

It's a radical idea, Paul. And the current century is adjusting/attuning to it more than any in human history ever has:

Religion no longer required.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
All you need to accept is that religious systems evolved like everything else, that they will continue to evolve, and at some point they'll speciate under new names and characters and features. In a nutshell, that's it.

Now if you want to continue calling these evolved life management systems "religion" well of course you're free to do that.

But imo you're only fooling yourself if you think "religion" as practiced traditionally in the Abrahamics, say, is the only way to "communicate and promote reconciliation with being."
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
I do my thing, they do theirs.

So do you follow American politics?

"I do my thing (based on my worldview), they do theirs (based on their worldview)." Which is a main contributing factor in the blue red polarization of our country now.

It could start with: Whatever it takes to overturn Roe vs Wade.

If you care about culture, thus politics, and the directions this country and world are taking,*** you need to look at all scales - from trees to forest to ecological biomes - for the fullest system understanding. What fraction of Sapiens does this?


*** Obviously, some do more than others. To be clear, if some care less, that's there business. I've got no problem with that. But our fates will roll on, for better or worse, you can be sure of that.


Personally I dislike politics. But I'm really into culture - its character and evolution, for eg - so like other like-minded souls, I get pulled into it. Politics, that is. Like aging, it's awful, but what can you do?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 19, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
Paul Roehl asks

Which of the nearly 4200 religions in the world are guilty of repression and violence?

off the top of my head Islam in the form of ISIS is pretty darn repressive and violent

Paul, from your postings on this thread I recognize you are a strong defender of religion....

but you can't be serious in asking your question

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence



paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
You people are supposed to be advocating for science and reason yet you insist on taking a small group of people who hate and impose and you assume then that all religions, which are practiced by billions of folks all over the world in a huge variety of forms, are guilty by some sort of strange and inaccurate association. What an unreasonable and unscientific position.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
Curious, Paul.

Anything to be learnt, appreciated, or extrapolated from this clip...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uii5WrmChbE

From the Star Trek Universe.

Really the whole episode is fantastic.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXufFVxYAg

A vignette of science and reason (vs pre-science and superstition) in a three minutes clip. How do YOU choose to "communicate and promote reconciliation with being" (Paul R)? For me the choice is clear: I'm with Picard. :)

...

Just fantastic. Way to go, Gen Z people!

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCTuirkcRwo

...

"There was a time when my atheism was about tearing the foundations (like faith) on which religion stood & seeking surrogates for "God." Today, it's about the awe and struggle to make sense of the human and the cosmic. Not unlike what the faithful are seeking." -Milessa Chen

Nice.

The mounting experience: There are many ways in today's world - besides religion - of (a) "promoting reconciliation with being;" (b) handling "the awe and struggle to make sense of the human and the cosmic."
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