The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Jul 10, 2017 - 09:46pm PT
I found Jesus, he is in gluten!!!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/10/536466553/gluten-free-host-a-no-go-says-pope

"a recent church directive emphatically states that the wafer known as the host must contain gluten."

Moose
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
Jul 11, 2017 - 01:58am PT
Religious leaders get high on magic mushrooms ingredient – for science

"Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore enlists priests, rabbis and a Buddhist to test the effects of psychedelic drugs on religious experience.

A Catholic priest, a Rabbi and a Buddhist walk into a bar and order some magic mushrooms. It may sound like the first line of a bad joke, but this scenario is playing out in one of the first scientific investigations into the effects of psychedelic drugs on religious experience – albeit in a laboratory rather than a bar.

Scientists at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore have enlisted two dozen religious leaders from a wide range of denominations, to participate in a study in which they will be given two powerful doses of psilocybin, the active ingredient in magic mushrooms"


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/08/religious-leaders-get-high-on-magic-mushrooms-ingredient-for-science?CMP=share_btn_tw
WBraun

climber
Jul 11, 2017 - 08:29am PT
To a true enlightened being, nothing would happen.

Such a being's consciousness is so far above that lower still material consciousness of any psychedelic drugs, peyote, psilocybin etc.

This why modern material scientists are so clueless.

They have no clue beyond the material realm.

They are stuck in the mud ......
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 11, 2017 - 10:04am PT
I've been living in Salt Lake City for the last ten days, working on my P2 paraglider rating. It takes a lot of work.

I think that I've seen one black person since I got here. It is lilly white mormon.

So I've been reading Krakauer's book Under The Banner of Heaven" about the FLDS polygamists in Colorado City, where they marry off 14 year old girls. I think that it is a pedophile's dream.

Regular mormons are nice people. Good neighbors. Fun to work with. I've also downloaded the Book of Mormon to read after I finish the book. I have skimmed it, but never read every word.

It is an odd religion. It says that a person can have personal conversations with God. Not too unusual that that has led to over 200 offshoots of the main church, most of which have failed.

Interesting book. He pulls no punches about the fundamentalists, and how they arrived at their thinking, as well as a good look at the mainstream church. He doesn't criticize the main church at all. The whole book is sort of journalistic. He just cites facts. He doesn't interpret them for you.

Do any other religions share that quality? That any individual can have personal conversations and instructions from God?
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Jul 11, 2017 - 12:11pm PT
That any individual can have personal conversations and instructions from God?

Not much of a conversation, but I get instructions from God every day. My wife is the medium, apparently.

;-)

Moose
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 17, 2017 - 10:08am PT
Scale, by Geoffrey West

Scale: The Universal Laws of Growth, Innovation, Sustainability, and the Pace of Life in Organisms, Cities, Economies, and Companies

https://www.amazon.com/Scale-Universal-Innovation-Sustainability-Organisms/dp/1594205582/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500310966&sr=8-1&keywords=scale+west

From Cells to Cities
A Conversation w Geoffrey West

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/from-cells-to-cities
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Jul 17, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
Saw the The Book of Mormon musical yesterday in San Jose.

Awesome!

LMAO!

Moose
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 18, 2017 - 07:23pm PT
I took the pro truth pledge!

https://www.protruthpledge.org


...

re: narrow-minded liberal hypocrites

Liberal hypocrites refuse to criticize Islamism. Result: field is left to right-wing xenophobes.

http://sister-hood.com/maryam-namazie/this-is-my-letter-to-you/
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 21, 2017 - 08:50am PT
re: Free speech?

It's getting ever harder to identify as a "liberal" in America these days...

Richard Dawkins deplatformed... In Wichita, KS? No. In Berkeley...

...when we didn’t know he had offended and hurt...

lol

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/richard-dawkins-deplatformed-at-a-book-talk-berkeley-for-abusive-speech-about-islam-on-twitter/

Richard Dawkins' letter to KPFA: "Why didn’t you check your facts...before summarily cancelling my event?"...

https://richarddawkins.net/2017/07/letter-to-kpfa/

...

Who was Henry Drummond?

"Gentlemen, progress has never been a bargain, you have to pay for it. Sometimes I think there is a man who sits behind a counter and says, Alright you can have a telephone but you lose privacy and the charm of distance. Madam, you may vote, but at a price - you lose the right to retreat behind the powder puff or your petticoat. Mr., you may conquer the air but the birds will lose their wonder and the clouds will smell of gasoline. Darwin took us forward to a hilltop from where we could look back and see the way from which we came. But for this insight and for this knowledge we must abandon our faith in the pleasant poetry of Genesis."

Inherit the Wind, 1960
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Jul 21, 2017 - 07:02pm PT
Interesting article in the New York Times today.

A few excerpts:

Don't believe in God? Maybe you'll try UFO's instead.

A growing body of research suggests that the evidence for a decline in traditional religious belief, identity and practice does not reflect a decline in this underlying spiritual inclination.

Furthermore, evidence suggests that the religious mind persists even when we lose faith in traditional religious beliefs and institutions. Consider that roughly 30 percent of Americans report they have felt in contact with someone who has died. Nearly 20 percent believe they have been in the presence of a ghost. About one-third of Americans believe that ghosts exist and can interact with and harm humans; around two-thirds hold supernatural or paranormal beliefs of some kind, including beliefs in reincarnation, spiritual energy and psychic powers.

These numbers are much higher than they were in previous decades, when more people reported being highly religious. People who do not frequently attend church are twice as likely to believe in ghosts as those who are regular churchgoers. The less religious people are, the more likely they are to endorse empirically unsupported ideas about U.F.O.s, intelligent aliens monitoring the lives of humans and related conspiracies about a government cover-up of these phenomena.

The Western world is, in theory, becoming increasingly secular — but the religious mind remains active. The question now is, how can society satisfactorily meet people’s religious and spiritual needs?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/opinion/sunday/dont-believe-in-god-maybe-youll-try-ufos.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
WBraun

climber
Jul 21, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
NYT --- "The Western world is, in theory, becoming increasingly secular...."


It should read; "The Western world is, in theory, becoming increasingly more and more insane" .......
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 21, 2017 - 11:31pm PT

Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jul 22, 2017 - 08:18am PT
Furthermore, evidence suggests that the religious mind persists even when we lose faith in traditional religious beliefs and institutions. Consider that roughly 30 percent of Americans report they have felt in contact with someone who has died. Nearly 20 percent believe they have been in the presence of a ghost. About one-third of Americans believe that ghosts exist and can interact with and harm humans; around two-thirds hold supernatural or paranormal beliefs of some kind, including beliefs in reincarnation, spiritual energy and psychic powers.

It'd be interesting to see the data and correlation to education levels. I think we all know that the more educated a person is the less inclined that person will be to the influence of woo.

For example, a simple poll with two questions:

1. What is your highest education level?
2. Do you believe there are people who can use only their mind to bend spoons?

I'd suppose that the higher the edu, the less likely to believe, with some notable exceptions along the way.

That said there is little doubt in my mind that a lot of folks say they are not this or that religion, or don't hold specific beliefs, but are still religious; totally get that. They are subject to the whims of woo.

DMT
c wilmot

climber
Jul 22, 2017 - 10:13am PT
Educated people are often seriously lacking in intelligence.

It's always cracked me up how people think a piece of paper somehow equals intelligence.
For many degrees- it just means you were the most receptive to the bullshit they brainwashed you with

The American education system is designed to reward people for conforming to what will make the rich the most profits

For the last decade or so it's been about creating absurd divisions by cultivating the new religion of political correctness. Many campuses even have a safe space for the flock to worship the "whims of woo"

c wilmot

climber
Jul 22, 2017 - 11:29am PT
. In the past decade I have taken eleven literature and history courses at Stanford.

Good for you- you paid money to earn a piece of paper which reinforces your sense of intellectual superiority.

You even name dropped Stanford- a bastion of PC nonsense. Where writing #blacklivesmatter 100 times in your application gets you admitted...

Perhaps consider this as your next class: FEMGEN 107S: Barbie Girls vs Sea Monsters: Gender, Sexuality, & Identity in American Culture


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 22, 2017 - 07:01pm PT
Letter from Steven Pinker

Dear KPFA,

As a longtime listener to KPFA, and a frequent guest on its programs, I was shocked to learn that your organization canceled a public event with Richard Dawkins because of alleged “abusive speech.” The decision is intolerant, ill-reasoned, and ignorant. Dawkins is one of the great thinkers of the 20th and 21st century. He has criticized doctrines of Islam, together with doctrines of other religions, but criticism is not “abuse.” As the activist Sarah Haider has pointed out, “Religions are just ideas and don’t have rights.” To criticize tenets of Islam is no more abusive than to criticize tenets of neoliberalism or the Republican Party platform.

People may get offended and hurt by honest criticism, but that cannot possibly be a justification for censoring the critic, or KPFA would be shut down because of all the people it has hurt and offended over the decades.

In making this decision you have handed a precious gift to the political right, who can say that left-leaning media outlets enforce mindless conformity to narrow dogma, and are no longer capable of thinking through basic intellectual distinctions.

I hope you will reconsider this decision and acknowledge the value of viewpoint diversity, free speech, and careful analysis of morally and politically fraught issues.

Sincerely,
Steven Pinker
Johnstone Family Professor
Dept. of Psychology
Harvard University




https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/richard-dawkins-is-dragged-into-americas-tedious-free-speech-war/
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 24, 2017 - 02:36pm PT
re: free speech

"Claremont college suspends students who blocked access to event with pro-police speaker."

Good!!!!

Four of the suspended students were seniors and had their degrees revoked pending completion of the suspensions, actions that affected their ability to compete for jobs that require a college degree

Nice!!

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-edu-claremont-students-suspended-20170722-story.html
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Jul 24, 2017 - 04:08pm PT
FEMGEN 107S: Barbie Girls vs Sea Monsters: Gender, Sexuality, & Identity in American Culture

"Incoming students bring widely varying experiences of intimate relationships, whether romantic, familial, platonic, or sexual. This course provides students an opportunity to examine sexuality as a broad concept encompassing a dimension of our humanity and its surrounding cultural systems, impacting how we relate with one another: our experience of sex, gender, intimacy, and worldview. Activities, readings, and discussions will prompt students to reflect on society constructs sex, gender, and intimacy. Themes will include intersectional feminism and codes of masculinity, concepts and practicalities of affirmative consent in straight and LGBTQIA contexts, gender and sexual identity spectrums, and the lived experience of dating, romance, and relationships."


On the edge of the abyss . . .
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 24, 2017 - 04:19pm PT
Could help control world population growth. A course like that is bound to make sex more confused and guilt ridden for participants.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jul 26, 2017 - 08:00am PT
Jgill: [Summary of . . . ] FEMGEN 107S: Barbie Girls vs Sea Monsters: Gender, Sexuality, & Identity in American Culture 

This could be a very interesting course if its participants were older and more mature than that of undergrads only. The views on sexuality could be greatly expanded. (Such views would seem to be generational, as well.) Ditto for “romance,” coupling, and what constitutes healthy “long-term relationship.” Add-in older folks’ views on divorce (and experiences and understanding), and one could have some really interesting conversations.

"On the edge of the abyss?"
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