The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 2, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
How folks can so freely ignore the circumstantial evidence is incredible to me.

Who here thinks if instead of human metabolism they had mouse metabolism that they wouldn't be a mouse? with mouse mind?

Sheesh.



If only this Mark Harris were here, we could probe him. Like Peterson said above, it is difficult to let go of those old habits of mind, ain't it?

This guy probably knows full well he didn't choose his hetero status - if in fact that is what this Rupublican from NC is - but nonetheless this candidate intends to run in US politics on the claim that gays do choose their sexual orientation.

But a watched pot never boils. It's hard to believe 100 years ago most people didn't know what chemistry was. Or what a neuron or action potential was. Or what a computer was. Or what globalization was. Extrapolating 100 years from now they will probably chuckle (Sheesh!) at all this Abrahamic silliness our time still contains.

Speaking of globalization, the above videos between Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson have already been close captioned in Arabic. I was watching some of it a couple hours ago. You should check out some of the commentary in Arabic, it's already there. We are indeed globalizing as a species in a gazillion ways, converging on norms/standards of thought and behavior acceptable to billions. Exciting stuff.

Who here thinks if they had mouse physiology (metabolism) they wouldn't have mouse impulses?

...

Why the rise of AI makes "mental resilience" imperative...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn7uDObRtNc

How will we use our future technology such as AI? Will we use it to build for ourselves heaven or hell?

...

Yuval Harari's latest book out this week.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 3, 2018 - 10:08am PT
ionlyski: Superstition is NOT a mental illness

Superstition these days might be considered most anything that cannot be rationally justified.

Maybe we could try to find some clarity about the difference between magic and religion as a start. Both appear to be irrational scientifically. It’s been argued that magic is an irrational attempt to manipulate the external and internal world. Many religions, on the other hand, seek understanding for its own sake.

When so-called rational approaches make assumptions that can only be justified by "what’s reasonable", then they too might be considered magical. For example, if one uses current—yet incomplete—scientific findings to instrumentally manipulate physical things in the world for practical results, that could constitute a magical attempt to serve one’s worldly interests.

Many religions aren’t about day-to-day instrumentalism. Many religions are oriented to one’s community, communion with the universe beyond what is perceived, cosmological explanation, and expression of the sacred or profound.

“Magic commands; religion seeks.”

(Of course, there are many different views about what myth, ritual, and religion serves.)
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 3, 2018 - 10:49am PT
As long as we understand intelligence as a hierarchy in a universe that demonstrates order or a logos there will be sufficient evidence for at least the possibility if not the necessity of deity. There is a certain Greek brilliance in the notion of “In the beginning there was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.” The genius of Christianity was to meld Judaism with Greek notions of history and philosophy that have a logical efficacy.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 11:20am PT

Deep ecology

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 11:28am PT

What one can agree upon and what one doesn't need to agree upon

paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 3, 2018 - 11:54am PT
Ignoring the hierarchy of intelligence on earth, the idea that humanity shares an equality of importance in relation to the rest of nature is romantic hokum. That’s not to say that nature isn’t important and needs to be treated with respect if only for the sake of our own survival. But we are at the top of the intelligence hierarchy and are the only species that recognizes its responsibility to itself and the rest of nature and that makes us real special.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 3, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
I like that, Paul.

And speaking of special, here is Stephen Hawking's idea of special...

We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special.
WBraun

climber
Sep 3, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
St00pid clueless brainwashed atheists babbling what God is or isn't masquerading their so called science as absolute knowledge as to what is what.

You should be ashamed!

Instead you are the out of control egotistic clueless maniacs .....
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 12:01pm PT

Yes, we're intelligent killers on the top of the hierarchy. We could use our intelligence to act much more responsibly...

Instead of destroying the earth and planning to colonize another planet. In what way is that intelligent?

Intelligence is often just another word for stupid pride in some limited perspective ability... Proud game players...
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 3, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
Yes, we're intelligent killers on the top of the hierarchy. We could use our intelligence to act much more responsibly...

Instead of destroying the earth and planning to colonize another planet. In what way is that intelligent?

Intelligence is often just another word for stupid pride in some limited perspective ability... Proud game players...

I don't think you're going to convince people to act responsibly by telling them they're idiot killers ruining the earth. After all we are products of this planet acting in the best evolutionary tradition of producing as many offspring as we can. And there are, ironically, vestiges of Christianity in the notion that humanity is the responsible factor in the corruption of the planet. Fascinating stuff.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 01:12pm PT

I don't think you're going to convince people to act responsibly by telling them they're idiot killers ruining the earth.

That's not what I said. I said we're intelligent killers... on the top of the hierarchy...

... and we're at present not using our intelligence well. We're ruining the earth. That's a simple fact. No need to sweet talk anybody about that...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 01:23pm PT

And to add to this:

At present we live in a world where there is more and more freedom for money (globalization). And less and less freedom for more and more people... (at least in the western world)
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 3, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
That's not what I said.

"Stupid pride?"
okay, whatever

climber
Sep 3, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
To convince people of means to voluntarily behave responsibly, with a small environmental footprint, is a tall order, unfortunately. I'm all for it, but don't see it happening anytime soon. I'm environmentally correct, but only because I'm poor, don't have a car, live in a small apartment that is well-sealed against both heat and cold, and so on. But I used to be like everyone else... had at least modestly large houses, drove everywhere, etc. I prefer my life now, but I'm single and don't have children, and am 64, so I'm not representative, shall we say....
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 01:55pm PT

Intelligence is often just another word for stupid pride in some limited perspective ability...

Yes, stupid... or blind if you prefer... or ignorant... as a choice or not...

Oil...
Round-up...
DDT...
The list is endless...

DDT as solution - limited perspective ability - the pride of the DDT maker and seller before the consequences were known... A lot of money earned...

People in awe staring at an atomic explosion and being exposed to the radiation before the consequences of radiation were well known... No atomic plague in Hiroshima declared by the new york times...

Speculative products from banks and the economic breakdown some years ago leaving many people homeless...
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 3, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
Proposing ideas like the equivalence of humanity with the rest of the animal kingdom and berating folks for ruining the earth and so on only helps elect the Trumps of this world. Joining up with the Monkey Wrench Gang does nothing more than alienate those that might otherwise be convinced of the reasonable nature of your cause: respect for the planet and its inhabitants. And I would add respect for ourselves and our potential as human beings.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 3, 2018 - 02:14pm PT

When I speak truthfully I also say that it is primarily the Trumps of the world who ruin the earth, not ordinary people, you and me... Etiquette often comes in the way of speaking truthfully...

I can take responsibility for what I think, say and do, not for what you and other people think, say and do. That's up to you...

In these times of globalization and freedom for money, more and more countries are setting up "one dollar, one vote"-systems instead of a "one head, one vote"-system. That's a tragedy...
okay, whatever

climber
Sep 3, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
That's a very, very bleak view, Paul Roehl, and one that I do not share.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Sep 3, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
Sadly, Paul, I think you are correct.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 3, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
In these times of globalization and freedom for money, more and more countries are setting up "one dollar, one vote"-systems instead of a "one head, one vote"-system. That's a tragedy...

Globalization? If you mean by globalization the realization that a world of disparate countries in competition for resources is no longer a viable system of being for humanity, I would disagree and say instead that globalization in terms of a unified world is our only hope for a productive future.

Speaking truthfully isn't speaking contentiously. Contention rarely convinces, just look at this thread. If you want to win tone it down to the degree it sounds reasonable to those you're trying to convince.
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