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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^really where?
There were some powerful dogs runnin around earlier, so I heard
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WBraun
climber
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since there is no consciousness to "see." So what's left is, what, do you imagine?
Most people imagine, and that's why they're called mental speculators, gross materialists, modern scientists etc.
They all can't "see" consciousness, although they imagine all kinds of illusions coming out of their fertile minds.
But those who are free from all material contamination, and without offenses, can easily see consciousness.
Because consciousness itself reveals itself to those and never to those latter rascals all masquerading as something else.
The riddle of the Swan ........
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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oh Mark, when will you learn the red print hasn't meaning without all the black print pointing at it?
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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I'll take Jesus's calls to action, Blue. Everybody else can have all the other stuff. It's dirt as far as I can tell (though dirt is pretty fascinating stuff).
There are a whole lotta people who beieve that every word in the bible is the word of god. They call themselve christians and go around proselytizing and yet most of their actions have nothing to do with what Jesus (supposedly) said about how to be.
Werner and Largo -
"Make the heart of truth your way...make emptiness the way, and see the way as emptiness.
In emptiness exists good but no evil.
Wisdom is existence.
Principle is existence.
The way is existence.
The mind is emptiness."
~ Miyamoto Musashi
Holding in the mind that there is only the mind keeps the mind full. It is mud in the water and in the way of emptiness."
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Ok Mark, here's some red fer ya,
Matt 27:46, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
why would He say this? being the Son of the all knowing God, and all.After already telling others He would be rising in three days. This was a question I rebuked over for many years.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Good fer you - not for me. Sounds like a man suffering. How would you despair?
Doesn't in the least inspire.
His example of how to be? Priceless.
Blue, just wondering? What do you think of the non-canonical gospels?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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fer me Mark, it establishes at the time Jesus didn't have the consciousness from the all knowing. That indeed He was mere mortal by voice thru mind, and proven by blood
And I think you should take all gospel in accordance.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dad gave us the keys to these high performance terrestrial biobots to navigate His goodly creation. Jesus came to show us the Father who is love. The prime directive is to love Him with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And to love your neighbor as yourself. We are all in this together and there is nowhere else to go, Cheers!
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Bryan: What I am interested in is those conceptualizations which most accurately represent external reality.
Accuracy is a value criterion. Any ideology / approach / view will privilege some set of values over others. There is no inferential logic whereby one can establish a conclusive ranking of values.
You can probably come up with other values that are particularly meaningful to you—even meaning itself. (Is meaning incontrovertible or necessary?)
“Radical skepticism” (your words) just recognizes that there are no final proofs. (You can drop the adjective.) The entire scientific project relies upon scholars being skeptical and recognizing the provisional nature of their work. To suggest that skepticism constitutes psychosis is a little over the top, IME.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Nice post, MikeL.
Soshin
There is commonly confusion concerning the distinction between accuracy and precision.
Radical spepticism is cool.
Included in that is "Don't believe everything you think."
One of my daughters at the age of 21 told me that she had concluded she would live her life passionately about everything and attached to nothing (being the way you expect it to be).
Wow. Smart girl. Proud dad.
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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Mike
Accuracy is a value criterion. Any ideology / approach / view will privilege some set of values over others. There is no inferential logic whereby one can establish a conclusive ranking of values. The value that I place on things like empirical evidence (the metric by which I would measure the "accuracy" of a theory) is pragmatic. In my experience, having a total disregard for empirical evidence makes life very difficult.
The entire scientific project relies upon scholars being skeptical and recognizing the provisional nature of their work. Scientists are skeptical in the sense that they attempt to falsify claims rather than prove them, and theories are revised as new evidence is discovered. However the word "skeptic" is often brandished by people who just want to reject a theory out of hand, or suggest that their unsubstantiated hypothesis is equal to a leading scientific theory. This type of skepticism is not scientific or rational.
To suggest that skepticism constitutes psychosis is a little over the top, IME. I didn't suggest skepticism constitutes psychosis. What I said is denying that an external reality exists outside ones mind is the definition of psychosis:
psy·cho·sis
noun
a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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^^^Enjoyed the read. Thanks.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Bryan:
Reverting to a dictionary as though it were a standard for truth or what a thing is or is not is a bit lame, IMO. Even the O.E.D. If you be an empiricist, then show me the data. (I think I’ll be able to follow along.)
If you believe in an external reality, then show it to me. Give me something that all of us here can agree upon, finally. (What would that be?)
Pragmatism is often the very same justification relied upon for ignoring ethical standards, community values, or the final truth in any matter. “It works” is hardly a measure of accuracy or precision. “It works” only looks at dependent variables / outcomes, IMO. Look closely at any study, and you’ll find the explained variation in outcomes far less than 1.0. The question, as I understand it in science, is “what are the dependent variables,” and how much do they explain phenomena?
“It works” is blunt, vague, and incompletely specified. Many myths operate on that basis. Is that what you want to call “Truth?” . . . “It works”?
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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If you believe in an external reality, then show it to me.
MikeL, Do you actually believe that there is no external reality?
Or, is that just rhetorical fun?
Mushin
Shoshin
Fudoshin
Zanshin
Practices to clear the mind and be more completely and impartially observant are useful. To expand these practices from tools for promoting mind to believing there is only mind is using the tools for what they were never designed.
This is using a scalpel as a plow.
PS Aren't dictionaries designed to help define meanings associated with words?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Most people imagine, and that's why they're called mental speculators
They're called mental speculators because of what they do, not because of what you do (where what you do is call them mental speculators)?
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Seriously, you don't know? That one's easy. For me :-)
Yeah, ok. Humans are just so clever - we've got this all figured out.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Mark, wow, congratulations! That's something to be proud to be attached to.
But also, you know, people say stuff. :-) Saying stuff is the easy part. Best of luck to her with the hard part!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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She's the one on the right. They're all remarkable humans, have a sense of mission and service and get stuff done.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nice! My 21 yr old struggles to say much at all, but I'm proud of him just the same :-) IMHO, people are different in what they think and say and believe.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Seriously, you don't know? That one's easy. For me :-)
Oviously there were many birds producing eggs long before the chicken showed up. Talkin bout the evolutionalary scale, right? So after many eggs laid the chicken, as we know him today. Popped out🐔
Nice job Mark..
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