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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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And what at base keeps these different cultures /peoples from melding? from engaging in modern creative collaboration? ANS Their people's core operating systems. In other words, their people's core belief systems.
Despite Paul's protestations, they're called what? They're called... religions / theisms.
Every single one of them out of the ME and Med originated in the bronze age and every single one of them... under the auspices of Jehovah / Jesus (Allah in Arabic) puts forth truth claims (what are they? claims to truth; claims to how the world worked and how it works today) that are in direct conflict not only with science but with each other's claims/assertions.
Stop covering for this archaica. That's what you could do. But you won't. Because you're less a science type and more a supernaturalist type.
And that's criticism / rejection. Not hatred. Sorry.
On the road to problem solving.
Sweet dreams.
Love and kisses
Esp to jgil and duck.......
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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our place in nature
What would you say is natures motto or creed would be or is? Do you think it's morals that separates us from nature and will be our demise?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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under the auspices of Jehovah / Jesus (Allah in Arabic)
When you lump stuff like this together it shows you either don't know what ur talkin about, or your lying? Which if its the latter, I'd call that hate. are you hateful or ignorant?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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And what at base keeps these different cultures /peoples from melding? from engaging in modern creative collaboration? ANS Their people's core operating systems. In other words, their people's core belief systems.
People don't meld for any number of reasons. Religion has united (melded) any number of groups that would otherwise hate each other for ethnic reasons. Christianity has melded vast numbers of people as has Islam: folks who would otherwise be at each other's throats. What you see as a religious issue: hatred of the different, is really a human issue born from your beloved evolution in which hatred of the other assured the success of our particular tribe.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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And both have often been the tip of the spear of genocide as part of that 'melding'.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ Nicely said. But when questioned of HIS core beliefs..... crickets
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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And both have often been the tip of the spear of genocide as part of that 'melding'.
Right now in Monterey bay there's a genocide go'in on, by whales, dolphins, and seals yet we still love them : )
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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My core beliefs? Compassion, empathy and understanding without fear of the unknown.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks Healyje. But you jumped in between mine and Paul's.
But since your on it. "Compassion". You feel sympathy for those less fortunate than yourself, right? Let me ask you then. Would you give Forgivness to someone that broke a simalar law inwhich you have broken the past? Say like maybe going 60 in a 50mph zone. Could you forgive one for stealing? What about if he stole some apples from a private orchard to feed his hungry kids?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I do my best, but will acknowledge the semantics of 'forgiveness' are among the most complex rational/emotional dances humans engage in and one which is not helped by gods which are constantly presented as intolerant and unforgiving.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Tis true the offering of forgivness is not the rational thought of the evolutionalized physical animal : (
Thanks for the honesty.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Every single one of them out of the ME and Med originated in the bronze age and every single one of them... under the auspices of Jehovah / Jesus (Allah in Arabic) puts forth truth claims (what are they? claims to truth; claims to how the world worked and how it works today) that are in direct conflict not only with science but with each other's claims/assertions.
This understanding or interpretation comes from a person looking to an ancient text for information about how the world works, and finding old myths and nonsense, and metaphors, decides that he entire bible is in fact packed with bad science.
How about a more nuanced view, accenting on what the good books says about how humans work, and human nature, and grace, and so on.
Most modern readers study religion texts with the philosophy that they will "take what they want - and leave the rest." If you are looking for history or measurements, you might consider looking elsewhere, unless you simply want to rant about what no sane person considers real history - walking on water and so forth.
Another curious thing I keep coming across here is the word, "Supernatural." What does that mean to people? Is that like DNA self-organizing, entirely by accident, or because it "took so long and happened in tiny increments." That kind of supernatural? Or something else? Maybe attributing what is considered random chance to the hand of God?
JL
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Largo: Most modern readers study religion texts with the philosophy that they will "take what they want - and leave the rest."
Au contraire, most bible readers today still consider it the literal word of god; one can only assume by 'modern' you mean something other than 'readers today'.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Healyje, you are suggesting that most people who pick up the bible and read a little or a lot of it are staunch fundamentalists. Really. That is, do most people who read the bible - at all - believe, for instance, that a man called Jonah spent upwards of a week inside a whale's belly and emerged whole to continue his life on land, so to speak. Are we to understand that the majority of people are literalists, and understand no other manner of truth?
JL
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
but if not actual fact... what parable is being told? and what is more objectionable, the fanciful story, or the lesson that lay behind it?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jonah is in the belly of sea monster/fish for three days, Christ is crucified and rises after three days, the moon wanes and is gone for three days then returns. In many bronze age cultures the moon is symbolic of eternal life: the leaving and always the return. The symbol for the moon becomes the bull as the crescent moon looks like the horns of a bull. There is a profound symbol in Jonah as he serves as an Old Testament prefiguration of the resurrection. Great symbols for the profound mystery of our fate (of course, if there is one) after death.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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The story of Jonah is also a message of hope. Never give up even if you are in the belly of a whale for three days.
I also take it as an example of how some people learn the hard way and suffer the consequences before having a deeper understanding of things.
These are the sorts of interpretations that one gets when taking a college course in the Bible as literature.
Or in a non fundamentalist church.
Remember that fundamentalists even by their count, are not more than 25% of the population. Don't mistake loud for numbers.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Jgill: The fundamental problem with this thread is the lack of basic definitions.
Make up your mind.
That’s what definitions do. Want definitions? Make ‘em up.
Heck, look up the definition of “definition.”
Now, define anything accurately, completely.
Would my art of dreaming escapades be considered a legitimate experiential adventure?
Define “legitimate,” “experiential,” “dreaming,” “escapades,” and “adventure.”
Everything and every non-thing shows up in your experience.
You’re working too hard at this.
PSP: I suspect you know the answer. every moment is an experiential adventure.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Ed: what parable is being told? and what is more objectionable, the fanciful story, or the lesson that lay behind it?
Geez, Ed. I think you’re trolling. You can’t honestly be serious about these questions.
I ask anyone here (regular or not) to relate his or her own personal realization and transformation after a near miss, after a close death or the death of a loved one, of any great tragedy they’ve experienced, of being in combat, of having their heart broken, or their will crushed to nothingness. For some reason or another, people fall into a state of great hopelessness, of nihilism, of sophistry, of nothingness. I think we’ve all been there at one time or another—and even some here still reside in that state right now. Over time, transcendence occurs; the spirit regains itself; life is seen differently. A fundamental shift occurs in being.
Does anyone really have a heart out there?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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I swear every MikeL post reinforces my gratitude (1) I was a science engineering major; (2) I studied the arts and humanities - history to linguistics to literature - on my own.
Yeah, that's what all those "shipmates" are thinking: this is a parable for hope against nihilism. Just look at their faces, you can see it written there.
In this guy too...
Nuts and fruits!
The "supernaturalist type" here really proves the rule that insofar as you don't have science - phys, chem and bio in particular - you've got nothing. At least in regards to a foundation.
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