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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 26, 2015 - 03:38pm PT
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"Funny, I was just going to say the same thing about you... and I'm sorry too." -Paul
Got it, Paul. Thanks. Appreciate the honesty.
My only consolation, I suppose, is that I am in the company
of Sagan, Tyson, Pinker, Dennett, Dawkins, Nye, Goodenough, Wilson...
and, yes, even Loyal Rue, too.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 26, 2015 - 03:55pm PT
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Paul,
It seems to me you might have some background in basic physics, chemistry and biology but somehow your thinking falls short of understanding how evolution by natural selection can act to leave in its wake control mechanisms (control systems) to well, CONTROL, the living organism in its environment.
Now, modesty aside, I might have a leg up on you based on my background in control engineering, signal transduction, across electromechanical and biological systems. Or maybe not. Maybe you've had such courses and studied these concepts, systems. If this is the case then it is a mystery why you're not connecting the dots here.
http://www.amazon.com/Control-Systems-Engineering-Norman-Nise/dp/0471445770/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432683448&sr=8-1&keywords=control+engineering+nise
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Control-Engineering-5th-Edition/dp/0136156738
http://www.amazon.com/Control-Systems-Engineering-Norman-Nise/dp/0470547561/ref=pd_sim_14_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z6N2XPETT1Q8RE8W2ZD
Among the worst things the novice does - in the study or scholarship of human functioning - is assume inside our bodies or inside our cells there's just a chemical soup or amorphous porridge. I really don't assume this is what YOU do, but it sure seems so based on your numerous postings that relate to these subjects.
Our bodies, despite the epithets and drivel and denials and humours of WB and others, are very complex systems and supersystems of machinery at the cellular and subcelluar levels.
It is worth noting that only in the last 100 years (a mere 4 gen!) has this extraordinary microstructure making up our "machinery of life" come to light - yes thanks to science and its methods and tools.
So this of course means that our knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds in said time and is by no means static as many seem to say; nor is it chaotic or whimsical one day this and another that as many seem to say as well - esp regarding the core or foundational subjects that only grow more solid and evidence -based in current time as the years pass. Again thanks to science.
Sadly, I do believe it IS possible a student can actually graduate from such courses as cell bio, biochemistry, molecular biology, genetics, neurobiology, pharmacology - even four years of medicine ending with an MD - and still not see the body system relations in terms of control dynamics (control engineering) fully. Thankfully, when I engaged these courses two full years of Control Engineering were already under by belt so I am grateful for that and indubitably this helped place these systems of knowledge in their rightful place in the development of my own mental models.
Lastly, Control Engineering, a major subdiscipline of general engineering that sadly the public has little heard of, does indeed play a super major role in human functioning and flourishing. A great deal more than it's ever talked about in public or here. It covers all the signalling simple to complex, chemical to electrical, throughout the body. To ignore it in human science is to leave a big black hole in one's thinking regarding humanity and its functioning.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 26, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
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That there must be some ultimate source, some unified theory of everything seems sensible from a human perspective (su)
Enter Largo, with his hypothetical unified theory of no-thing and quantum mechanics. I hope he succeeds.
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WBraun
climber
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May 26, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
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The gross materialists always think someone is making something up because the gross materialist is doing exactly that and passing that on as science.
They have no clue beyond their limited selves.
We will look for god they say.
We will make a machine and look for god with that machine.
How stoopid can you get.
God isn't a machine and not like you.
Still the fools think God must be like them.
Then they can't see God and then claim there is no God.
Stooopid stoopid people should ashamed they call themselves educated.
A monkey could do better.
Fools ......
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WBraun
climber
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May 26, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
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Yep the fools Believe God is just like them ......
These fool modern scientist have advanced their education and perfected death.
They have Phd in death ......
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 26, 2015 - 05:22pm PT
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jgill:
Focus on the object of the conversation rather than specific words. (Look what words are pointing at.)
“If” is not too far away from “want.”
When most people write or speak something to the effect of . . . “If I were X, then I would do Y,” it indicates an assessment, which signals either an attachment or an aversion. It’s an insinuation. Usually people do not throw out hypotheticals without reason or purpose.
Paul:
The standard answer is: “evolution.”
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 26, 2015 - 05:24pm PT
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28God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."…
This is the first place God encourages us into understanding Natural Science.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 26, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
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Desire? Yes, well, you're an artist so I can't blame you for a tendency to romanticize. With regard to 'survival instinct', instinct is the operative word. To some extent it's like asking why you have a desire to blink or close your eyes in an instant of dust blowing in your face.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 26, 2015 - 05:45pm PT
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Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth How is that an introduction to natural science ?
So God's given us a command to control the destiny of "every living thing that moves". What happened to the meek shall inherit the earth" ? Or is that also tommy-rot?
The Bible is so self contradictory that philosophers have been arguing over it since before Augustine. Not to mention burning people at the stake or scalding them in boiling oil for having contradicting interpretations. Murdering hundreds of thousands of Native Americans in the "conquest" of the New World. The Catholic Church standing by while Hitler committed unspeakable atrocities against that other great Abrahamic sect, Judaism. It's obvious God had it in for the Jews in the first half of the 20th century.
Either the Bible's not the Word of God or God is a sadistic delusional schizophrenic.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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From the early naughts, to the 1970s, The Christian holy rollers (right wingers looking for blame) would watch other Christians to see if they did any work on Sunday, like gardening or house work,
and if you were caught, you were written up in the media as a Bad Christian.
That is intolerance expressed by your typical right wing Christian, obey the authoritarian rule of the Christian law, or get publically humiliated
the only difference now is that you "Can work on Sunday"
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 26, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
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It's pretty simple really Mr. Fry
Live by the law, get judged by the law.
Or
Live under Grace.
Without this understanding you'll NEVER get who a Christian is..
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 26, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
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The will to life is written in to the evolutionary process as in: I desire to live therefore I will run from the predator.
I did not realize that a capacity for logical thinking was so widely found in the animal kingdom.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 26, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
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So God's given us a command to control the destiny of "every living thing that moves".
Well He said "rule over", and to understand what that entails one must take into consideration everything else He says about animals.. One is that every living creator with eyes has a soul, so we should place those souls in high reverence. And reason why a Christian should always say a blessing before eating to ask God to bless the soul of the life that was sacrificed in order for our life to continue.
But in an ugly way doesn't man already "rule" over animals. We fence them in, and out. We use them for scientific experiments, we totally changed the makeup of the dog. And we continue to pollute their waters with our modern scientific marvels like oil rig spills, plastic bottles, oil burning machines, etc. to the point of their live able pond is shrinking. We're ruling them by controlling and currupting their environmental habitat.
God gave us permission to rule over them, but i think He meant WITH LOVE!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2015 - 07:12pm PT
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Blu
God's love says you shouldn't work on Sunday, right?
So that means no working, no climbing, no gardening, no house work, or anything considered recreational fun. It's the day for worship, and that's all you are allowed to do
according to 2000 years of Christian LAW...
are you a bad Christian Blu?
or do you just pick and choose what you think Jebus meant.
and think climbing on Sunday is OK.
I'm trying to understand...
But I think your cult will never make sense to me, a skeptic.
I don't see the love, it's more of an intolerance for all those outside your tribe and the un-believers, which isn't love at all,
just like all the other cults.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 26, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
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Desire? Yes, well, you're an artist so I can't blame you for a tendency to romanticize. With regard to 'survival instinct', instinct is the operative word. To some extent it's like asking why you have a desire to blink or close your eyes in an instant of dust blowing in your face.
Romanticize? To say something is just instinct does not explain what instinct is, where it comes from, why it's ubiquitous to life why it is the very nature of life. You're just not looking at the larger picture... I'm reminded that science in its reductive bliss is often plagued with the dilemma of knowing more and more about less and less.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 26, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
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are you a bad Christian Blu?
or do you just pick and choose what you think Jebus meant.
and think climbing on Sunday is OK.
I see, some Christians are bad therefore Christianity itself is to blame/is bad, unlike science where bad "Scientists" are just bad, but Science remains the true epistimelogical methodology.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 26, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
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and think climbing on Sunday is OK.
Dang straight!
The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath. Mark 2:27
Jesus IS the Sabbath. And everyday is the sabbath for a Christian!
That doesn't mean you shouldn't set apart a time to get together with other Christians and praise God.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 26, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
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When most people write or speak something to the effect of . . . “If I were X, then I would do Y,” it indicates an assessment, which signals either an attachment or an aversion. It’s an insinuation. Usually people do not throw out hypotheticals without reason or purpose (MikeL)
If I were you (X), then I would delete your statement (Y).
;>)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 26, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
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just like all the other cults.
Man,, it's so easy to decipher. Believe when i say EVERYONE is speaking to, and about The One God. There is ONLY 1. The confusion is in the approach. There are two distinct paths. The first, and earliest is through The Law. This encompasses everything that has to do with "doing" something to "get right" with God. Every "cult" that requires you to do ANYTHING physically to approach or get inline with God's plan is infact living in the old testament days. And theY are DISHONORING the Messiah, the Christ, Jesus, and the Grace God gradtuevly gave through Him. So if those cults are requiring law, Jesus will judge them with law.
Seems appropriate enough to me, mother Nature judges with laws everyday.
God gave man the law not to condemn him, which it did/does. But to give fact the need of a Messiah, Jesus.
Edit; i don't think it's been anymore prevalent throughout history then it is today, that mans heart can in no means be ruled by laws. Be it Natures physical laws, political, philosophical, or societal. The physical universe if anything, is Just. It HAS to be to work. Dr Fry can die and return to dust, and never be heard from again, and we can easily garnish the attitude of "that's fair". He got to live a long life, did much, had fun, reproduced. He's square with Natures laws.. But God wants more for you then that. And He's provided the door for which we can escape.
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Norton
Social climber
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May 26, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
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you are on a roll, Blue!
tell us more
tell us all about the One True God, the God above all others, your own special God
tell us all about his Laws and how important it is that you obey them
tell us how you just can't understand how the unbelievers, the Atheists, can find the
same moral righteousness and a reason to live another day like you do
fill this thread with the power and certainty that comes only from your Friend in the Sky
this IS the "Religion" thread so tell us, over and over again, all about it Blue
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