The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 26, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
In Canada, the Indian residential school system was a network of boarding schools for Indigenous peoples. The network was funded by the Canadian government's Department of Indian Affairs and administered by Christian churches.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/residential-school-alleged-abusers-iap-1.3422770

Caribou said Catholic missionaries physically and sexually abused her until 1979 at the Guy Hill institution, in the east of the province of Manitoba.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/06/canada-dark-of-history-residential-schools

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Residential_Schools_Settlement_Agreement

Pope will not apologize for abuse in Canada's indigenous schools
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/28/pope-no-apology-canada-indigenous-schools-abuse
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 26, 2018 - 03:44pm PT


•THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE HONEST AND FAITHFUL, ESPECIALLY TO THE PROVIDER OF THY NOOKIE.
•THOU SHALT TRY REAL HARD NOT TO KILL ANYONE, UNLESS, OF COURSE, THEY PRAY TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE MAN THAN THE ONE YOU PRAY TO.
•THOU SHALT KEEP THY RELIGION TO THYSELF!

transcript at
https://genius.com/George-carlin-the-ten-commandments-annotated
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Oct 26, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
Those Bastards!


DMT
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
the good western religions have done Africa only come after FIRST destroying the place and turning its good people into beggars

Religions didn't do that human beings did it as they have a natural (based in nature) proclivity to impose on their fellow man religion or not.

In fact, religion does a great deal to mediate the nastiness we humans are naturally inclined towards. You know like blessed are the peacemakers and so on.

Religion didn't make the people of Africa beggars that was nature.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of health care services in the world.[1] It has around 18,000 clinics, 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs, and 5,500 hospitals, with 65 percent of them located in developing countries.[2] In 2010, the Church's Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Care Workers said that the Church manages 26% of the world's health care facilities.[3] The Church's involvement in health care has ancient origins.

Catholic schools are parochial schools or education ministries of the Roman Catholic Church. As of 2011, the Church operates the world's largest non-governmental school system.[1] In 2016, the church supported 43,800 secondary schools, and 95,200 primary schools
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
Paul, it's okay.

But in retrospect you'll understand. In 25 years, you'll look back and see that religion isn't the only life guidance system (or life management system) that addresses people's deepest concerns (incl yours). We're all in a new age now. 500 years ago, let alone 5000, the world was different.

Today millions of people are proving to themselves, often through their own exploration and discovery - and of course with the aid of the internet, lol - that there are ways, and systems of ways, already in place and feverishly under development too (besides religion or theism), that addresses your "reconciliation of Nature with being" concern.

Keep the faith, man.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
But in retrospect you'll understand. In 25 years, you'll look back and see that religion isn't the only life guidance system (or life management system) that addresses people's deepest concerns (incl yours). We're all in a new age now. 500 years ago, let alone 5000, the world was different.

Today millions of people are proving to themselves, often through their own exploration and discovery - and of course with the aid of the internet, lol - that there are ways, and systems of ways, already in place and feverishly under development too (besides religion or theism), that addresses your "reconciliation of Nature with being" concern.

Keep the faith, man.

Well you're right about faith. One can only believe in the above if they have faith. Ironic.
Of course it's a fact that the Catholic Church is the single largest non governmental charitable organization in the world. I suppose we should shut it down as soon as possible and get everybody to toughen up.



High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
I suppose we should shut it down as soon as possible...


Per usual (as Aurelius said to Commodus), you go too far.

Why it's so hard (apparently) for you a) to see that religious systems are evolving (that they are subject to evolutionary pressure like anything else) and b) to see that religion no longer has a monopoly in the 21st century on the very qualities or features you like to describe as important... continues to escape me.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
that there are ways, and systems of ways, already in place and feverishly under development too (besides religion or theism),
that addresses your "reconciliation of Nature with being" concern.


Every single one of them are religious based including atheism.

Fruitloop is clueless as usual .......
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
Why it's so hard (apparently) for you a) to see that religious systems are evolving (that they are subject to evolutionary pressure like anything else) and b) to see that religion no longer has a monopoly in the 21st century on the very qualities or features you like to describe as important... continues to escape me.

You assume the automatic superiority of the future. It is an assumption that ignores the powerful nature of myth from the past, myth that lives deep in our consciousness and addresses the natural psychological states common to all no matter their political or religious belief.

It's important to remember that so called "movement forward" in the western tradition is likely to be predicated on a long look to the past. Our greatest social achievements like the Enlightenment and the Renaissance have their foundation, their base in antiquity and classical antiquity. There's a reason the Supreme Court looks like a Roman Temple and it has very little to do with science and everything to do with human reason.
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:04pm PT

You assume the automatic superiority of the future. It is an assumption that ignores the powerful nature of myth from the past, myth that lives deep in our consciousness and addresses the natural psychological states common to all no matter their political or religious belief.

There are also powerful natural tendencies from our past that drive us to crave fat, sugar, and salt. Come to think of it most people who cling to outdated religions also seem to cling to outdated diets... at least in this country. Evolution will take care of it.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
You should talk as your diet is flaming hot coals ......
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
Folks don't always eat what they preach... just ask a catholic priest.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
I don’t think technology is going to change the fundamental nature of homo sapiens. We is what we is, to paraphrase Popeye.

Technology will be our damnation and our successor.

DMT
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
I don’t think technology is going to change the fundamental nature of homo sapiens.

It can if you do it intelligently.

Not like fruitloops who tries to force it artificially .....
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth
Oct 26, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
Dogs will take over computers once we hit the AI singularity... dog shows will be something entirely beyond your wildest dreams.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
There are also powerful natural tendencies from our past that drive us to crave fat, sugar, and salt. Come to think of it most people who cling to outdated religions also seem to cling to outdated diets... at least in this country. Evolution will take care of it.

Those tendencies were vital to survival in a world where the commodities of fat, sugar and salt were necessary for survival but limited, hard to find.

Unfortunately we are oversupplied with those foods now and they are easily acquired.

And, unfortunately, reconciliation to existence is still very hard to come by so your comparison doesn't make much sense.

Evolution just is. It doesn't take care of things the players have that responsibility or not.
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth
Oct 27, 2018 - 06:46am PT
And why does your argumemt not hold for religion? Having a coherent story that gave peeps a sense of belonging in the world was adventageous as consciousness evolved. Now we have an overabundance of information that not only contradicts but mostly disproves 99.9% of religious bullsh#t... yet people keep stuffing their fat heads with the outdated sugar and salt... and you justify their pre-bronze age bullshit with absurdities like "reconciliation to existence is still very hard to come by"
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 27, 2018 - 07:45am PT
And why does your argumemt not hold for religion? Having a coherent story that gave peeps a sense of belonging in the world was adventageous as consciousness evolved. Now we have an overabundance of information that not only contradicts but mostly disproves 99.9% of religious bullsh#t... yet people keep stuffing their fat heads with the outdated sugar and salt... and you justify their bronze age bullshit with absurdities like "reconciliation to existence is still very hard to come by"

Here's what you just don't get:

those stories aren't bullshxt, they're metaphors for psychological realities that we all experience.

You want to read them as to whether or not they were historical realities or as if they were some kind of competing science which they are not.

You don't read something like Aesop's Fables and dismiss it because animals can't really talk.

You take away the moral of the story as a real truth. The problem on this thread is the stubborn and absurd inability to understand what a metaphor even is.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 27, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
Anti-Christ: Having a coherent story that gave peeps a sense of belonging in the world was adventageous as consciousness evolved. 

You mean like how science gives people a coherent stories today?

It’s all stories, my friend. Get beyond that apparent need, and you might discover something that narratives cannot provide.

Metaphors and allegories. If you can’t see them, then you’ll think they are concrete and serious—you know, real.

(On another thread today, Lynne wants to know why people hate so much. Reading this thread, she should ask folks here.)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 27, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
On another thread today, L wants to know why people hate so much. Reading this thread, she should ask folks here - MikeL

MikeL, care to elaborate?
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