The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 19, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
Yeah, you might want to expand your horizons beyond the restraining limits, the insipid pablum of pop-culture. You might find something worthwhile in the complexities of theology and mythology and you might even recognize how their elements inform some of your own thinking.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 19, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
If an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god exists, then evil does not.
There is evil in the world.
Therefore, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god does not exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

The Christian God causes, allows, condones, even encourages the abuse of children.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/us/san-jose-priests-sex-abuse-allegations-list/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_on_the_causes_of_clerical_child_abuse

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/us/pennsylvania-ag-claims-vatican-knew-of-coverup/index.html

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/catholic-leaders-covered-up-abuse-of-more-than-1000-children-by-priests-in-pennsylvania-over-70-years-report
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 19, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
Paul, one can look for the good in religion without actually believing in spirits, gods.

Do you believe in a creator, a god, a personal god, Paul?

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 25, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
re: modeling radical truthfulness

Honnold is modeling something else, a kind of radical truthfulness. -Brett Stephens

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/opinion/alex-honnold-free-solo-movie.html

Note same could be said of Science. So let's do...

Science is modeling a kind of radical truthfulness.

...

Science is but the messenger, Nature's the culprit...



https://youtu.be/s2D7ycjAKv4
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 25, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
the restraining limits, the insipid pablum of pop-culture... -PaulR

Proof positive you've never experienced more than bits at most of the Star Trek Universe.
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Oct 25, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
Read more on the next page.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jesus-painting-survives-fire-that-destroyed-150-year-old-church-in-massachusetts/

Moose
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Oct 25, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jesus-painting-survives-fire-that-destroyed-150-year-old-church-in-massachusetts/

"Jesus painting survives fire that destroyed 150-year-old church in Massachusetts

A massive fire destroyed the First Baptist Church of Wakefield in Massachusetts Tuesday night, CBS Boston reports, and the historic building was described as a total loss. But as workers were clearing the ashy remains of the church the next day, Jesus appeared in the form of a painting, The Boston Globe reports.

Photos from the scene of the fire show a building inspector removing a nearly-pristine painting of Jesus, which once hung just inside the church's front doors, according to The Boston Globe. Somewhat miraculously, the painting survived the devastating fire.The image of Jesus emerging from the charred church gave worshipers some solace during the difficult time."

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

Jesus loves himself, but seems to hate anybody else.

Moose
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 25, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
Moose, I bet you'd enjoy. First get together ever - Sam Harris and Brian Greene...



https://youtu.be/A0hNc8r0POs

It's a favorite, they even discuss the possibility of the Resurrection of Jesus in the context of quantum mechanics and many worlds!

Notes: (1) Audio's messed up, too low. Best to download to VLC player and turn volume way up. It's perfect then. (2) For the fun of it, turned Ad Blocker Plus off, only four ads throughout show. That's four too many. ABP back on again.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 01:17am PT
You know, you speak sarcastically (correct me if I'm wrong) but all the Star Trek and Marvel Studio mythologies, for example,*** are also important genres of literature, storytelling and the humanities.

Proof positive you've never experienced more than bits at most of the Star Trek Universe.

Oh I've experienced it enough to say Star Trek models a kind of radical mediocrity. Fascinating, the idea of equating pop culture with high culture as in Star Trek and Comic books are "important literature." It's exactly the same kind of fuzzy post modernist thinking you like to rail against. Too funny.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 07:54am PT
Fascinating, the idea of equating pop culture with high culture as in Star Trek and Comic books are "important literature."

Good grief.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 07:56am PT
Good point xCon!
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:28am PT
Xcon: SINCE the hooks religion exploits in the human are as rooted in our beings as grammar what prevents IT from being studied starting in grade school as a subject valuable to the student in the suscessful navigation of the world?

The "hooks" you refer to are what makes one human. They are rooted in attractions and aversions. (Try getting rid of those.)

The programming of human beings are much deeper and pervasive than simply doctrines. One could start with "object permanence," which arises by 3 years old.

If religion bothers you so much, then you might want to look at the almost endless list of beliefs that people hold.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 08:50am PT
Religion bothers many of us and I am pleased that the number of people professing disbelief is growing at a rapid clip.
The hypocrisy and outright immorality of many evangelical christians is nothing short of astonishing.
If religion suits you, consider the muslim faith...hypocrites they are not.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:18am PT
If religion suits you, consider the muslim faith.

LOL ... religion has nothing to do with material designations Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc etc

Shows you really are ignorant of what religion really truly is.

If someone says this religion is bad then it's automatically not religion.

Very very few can actually spot religion as it is on this planet .....

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:24am PT
I may, as you say, be ignorant of what religion “really” is. I do know it’s not for me...to each his own.
WBraun

climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:27am PT
You already made your own artificially ......
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Oct 26, 2018 - 09:43am PT
Don't Need No Religion....



DMT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 26, 2018 - 10:14am PT
re: "religion"

Well what's pretty clear to any reasonably educated person of C21 is that Abrahamic religion as practiced traditionally (whatever its version, C or I) is divisive af.

What Honnold laments to Joe Rogan in his latest podcast regarding fossil fuel use (vs solar use) is equally applicable to religions: "It's a bummer." It's a waste of human potential. "What's crazy" is that it's totally obvious - in 100 years evolution, it's going to be so much different - but there's so much public resistance to it, "it's insane", half the people will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future, if you just embrace it, it could be 15 yrs instead of a hundred, etc etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OhHkBmbb5Y

Rogan: It's inevitable, I agree with you.

Honnold: That's almost more frustrating though. Because it's inevitable and yet it's going to be dragged out so long; you're sorta like, why can't people just embrace the inevitability of it and just move forward.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 26, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
Well what's pretty clear to any reasonably educated person of C21 is that Abrahamic religion as practiced traditionally (whatever its version, C or I) is divisive af.

Abrahamic religions have done immense good in the world.

How many Catholic Hospitals are there in Africa? South America? How many orphanages? Look it up.

Seems you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Humans believe, have faith, for a reason. Life's hard, often tragic, often terrible. Nature's cruel, humanity is, by its very nature, cruel.

You want to take away the solace humanity finds in religion in the face of what is often such a tragic condition?

You want to eliminate religion because of what a tiny minority does?

The reality is there are important reasons and benefits for and of belief you just simply want to ignore.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 26, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
In Canada, the Indian residential school system was a network of boarding schools for Indigenous peoples. The network was funded by the Canadian government's Department of Indian Affairs and administered by Christian churches.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/residential-school-alleged-abusers-iap-1.3422770

Caribou said Catholic missionaries physically and sexually abused her until 1979 at the Guy Hill institution, in the east of the province of Manitoba.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/06/canada-dark-of-history-residential-schools

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Residential_Schools_Settlement_Agreement

Pope will not apologize for abuse in Canada's indigenous schools
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/28/pope-no-apology-canada-indigenous-schools-abuse
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