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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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God I love that guy...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Craig, what was the question I was supposed to answer? I was busy most of yesterday dealing with a matter where the opposing law firm has an attorney by the name of Craig Fry!
For those unaware, I consider our Craig Fry a friend, and he has my permission to harass me, not that he needs it.
But just to add a bit of fun to the mix, Obama's arguments against the Keystone Pipeline remind me of something Chouinard wrote over 40 years ago, viz. "It's an argument if not by, then exclusively for half-wits and imbiciles." It earned the coveted Four Pinocchio award on the Washington Post's Fact Checker:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/03/02/obamas-claim-that-keystone-xl-oil-bypasses-the-u-s-earns-four-pinocchios/
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yeah, John, that link was bombed in by TGT earlier today. 'Bombed in', that is, by simply posting some stooooopid graphic with a link, without any kind of dialogue, comment, or perspective whatsoever (preferably intelligent).
That's what Craig was calling out yesterday about the majority of Repubs here at ST (yourself not included).
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Norton
Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
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You are moron, JohnE
gas is $2 a gallon and the supply keeps building, no environment trashing taking of
private property by Eminent Domain laws is "necessary"
bottom line, you "oppose" simply and only because you can do so, just like all the other
"conservatives" do in their very nature, oppose because of cowardly intellectual timidness to stand up and defend your own party's massive failures with the economy and foreign policy
factual ignorant is one thing, being incapable, bullheaded, of change is purely...stupid
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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You are moron [sic], JohnE
I know this is unfair, because I make plenty of typos, too, and don't always catch them before anyone else. Still, you're right in one sense, Norton. In certain situations, like this one, I can't help myself from pointing out the irony.
Gas is well over $3.00 a gallon currently in California, though largely because of refinery issues and a steelworkers labor dispute, not the price of petroleum and natural gas. Nonetheless, the decline in hydrocarbon prices comes despite, not because of, the Democrats' policies. The majority of Democrats nationally have expended great effort to decrease hydrocarbon extraction in the U.S. Fortunately, the market was able to work around the Democrats' obstructionism.
How can anyone take seriously Obama's argument that there hasn't been enough study? Really, six years isn't enough? Also, this is a privately-funded endeavor, not a waste of taxpayer money, such as California's Democrats are committing with their high speed rail white elephant.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"The majority of Democrats nationally have expended great effort to decrease hydrocarbon extraction in the U.S. "
Well, that's one reason we voted them in, isn't it?
We are all hoping to avoid any future 'massive failures with the economy and foreign policy'. Who could disagree with that?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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You are moron, JohnE
And you guys wonder why no one wants to come play in your little sandbox.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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And you guys wonder why no one wants to come play in your little sandbox this is for those sandbox dorks!
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crankster
Trad climber
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high speed rail white elephant.
Yeah, why should CA have high speed rail when we have all those cars and freeways?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Craig Fry wrote:
Larry. are you saying that your question about "when did I stop beating my wife" was a loaded question?
Oh, my bad, I answered it anyway.
What do I win.
Craig,
LOL, I was just pointing out that some questions are not worth answering. You would have won if you did not answer, heh.
I think that line actually comes from an old Jewish comedian.
Crankster wrote:
Yeah, why should CA have high speed rail when we have all those cars and freeways?
Crank,
Being California, where most of us had our first sexual experiences in a car (maybe I'm dating myself), we are not likely to give up the independence and freedom of a car.
Even if that wasn't true, the whole high speed rail thing is still a boondoggle.
Remember when California governors used to leave office without debt and money in the bank?
Jerry Brown is not a typical politician and can be creative at solving problems. I think his progressive spending inclinations are steering him wrong on this one.
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dirtbag
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
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Nutteryahoo would love for the U.S. to take military action against Iran.
I'm sure Fatty loves that idea.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Yeah, why should CA have high speed rail when we have all those cars and freeways?
The problem, Crankster, is what we're giving up to pay for that high speed rail ("HSR"). Here are a few of them:
1. The state's support of public higher education keeps dwindling. I found it particularly ironic that the day Brown vowed to go ahead with the project, despite its significant cost increase over the estimates initially given, City College of San Francisco, the undergraduate school with the largest enrollment in California, almost lost its accreditation because of its shaky finances. Most of the other community colleges in California were on similarly uncertain financial ground. Not only will the capital cost of HSR diminish funds available for capital improvements in the Community Colleges, State University and University of California systems, but the annual costs of operating that system will diminish funds available for other state needs.
2. If the issue is reducing congestion and air pollution, using funds currently budgeted for HSR to synchronizing the timing of signals on urban surface streets instead would yield far better returns. We would reduce fossil fuel consumption and air pollution much more by using the HSR capital fund to buy everyone a hybrid. The actual reduction of either fuel consumption or air pollution from HSR will be negligible.
3. People don't choose to ride in their own cars, or in planes, because they're stupid. HSR has some advantages over flying if you live in my little town, but not so for traveling between the Bay Area and South California. As for using cars rather than public transportation, my car leaves exactly when I'm ready, goes to exactly where I'm going, allows me to store things securely while I combine several tasks in one trip, has exactly the environment I desire in terms of temperature, noise (i.e. music, voice or silence) and companionship.
4. The California budget will be increasingly overwhelmed with pension costs. The last thing we need is an economic sink hole that will cost substantial amounts of money yearly for quite dubious benefits.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Crankster, are you a HSR supporter?
Me...as a lefty....notsomuch. It really seems like a massive boondoggle that is moving forward mostly due to political momentum & special interests (somewhere). It's hard to conceive how it will make any kind of real dent in the transportation problems we have in Cali.
It's hard to argue against the positive, rational economic impact Brown has had in the last few years. But as mentioned above, I'm having a hard time understanding why he's hitched his wagon to this mess.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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John
The question was "Are you a libertarian or not?"
But really, the question might be "Did you say you were a Libertarian"?
The Keystone Pipeline only has Republican support because it's a Koch Brothers project
The Koch Bros bought huge tracts of Tar sand land, they want a Canadian Company to build a pipeline through America using non-American Steel and pipes.
They don't have the rights to the land so they are claiming eminent domain and just taking it.
They don't have the environmental impact reports completed or approved, but Repubs don't like the laws regulating such things as pipe across America that could wreck huge aquifers that millions of people rely on
The product will go directly to the Koch Bro refineries in Texas and be shipped to the lowest bidder.
America will not get any royalties for the product being piped, they go straight into the Koch private Corp.
It's a collusion with a Private Company and the Federal Gov.
They can't just force it through because they want, The Congress has No such authority
Can you understand.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Obama’s claim that Keystone XL oil ‘bypasses the U.S.’ earns Four Pinocchios
The article didn't even prove that Obama was wrong
It said that the refined product may or may not be sold here in America, no one knows for sure at this time.
Just another hit piece.
why do the Repubs love to discredit the President with misinformation at every chance
I think it's despicable and just shows how effective the right wing media is at creating division and hate.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Thanks, Craig. I have a tendency toward being libertarian (in contrast to Libertarian) on domestic policy, and very much so regarding the Bill of Rights. I don't agree with most of the decisions of Justices Black and Douglas on antitrust, say, but on the Bill of Rights, I would probably have voted in lockstep with them, if it were mine to vote.
I part company with classic libertarianism on government regulation, which I think is essential to allowing a capitalist economy to function properly. This is particularly true with respect to regulations dealing with economic externalities. In regulations designed to protect people form themselves, the libertarian tendency reappears.
I am not a libertarian on foreign policy, at least to the extent that libertarian foreign policy has come to mean neo-isolationism. To that extent, I'm much more of a Goldwater Republican. If for no other reason than foreign policy, I would vote for Hillary Clinton over Rand Paul, given what I know currently about each.
So does this make me a Ripon Society Republican?
John
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crankster
Trad climber
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apogee, I'm not all in on HSR; but my daughter lives in Europe and last summer we traveled around on trains doing 300 kph+ and I'm thinking "why can't we do this in the US?" I'd wager every major transportation infrastructure project has a great many skeptics, although, voters did approve the project in '08. And I don't buy the argument that we are taking money away from education to do it.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Crankster, compare the population density in Europe with that along the route of the California HSR, then check to see if any of the European passenger railroads obtain enough money from fares to cover operations. The answer to those questions explains why we shouldn't do that here.
And I agree that we aren't necessarily spending money that would otherwise go to public higher education. I was offering that as one example of a higher and better use for the money. For some reason I've never understood, Jerry Brown, who has generally done a good job in his second run at governor, has fallen back to his M. O. during his first run as governor, and decreasing state funding for public higher education. Since I have one undergraduate degree (with double majors) one graduate, and one professional degree all from the U.C. system, both of our daughters are U.C. graduates, my wife a Cal State University-trained nurse, and I've taught in the community college system, I'll admit to a certain bias in this matter.
John
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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6 years to review / approve a project like keystone is chump change. International implications, condemnation litigation, NEPA, and all the other permits-- prolly 10 years at least. I just did an NPDES permit RENEWAL with no real changes and it took EPA two years.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Just another hit piece.
why do the Repubs love to discredit the President with misinformation at every chance
I think it's despicable and just shows how effective the right wing media is at creating division and hate.
So now the Washington Post is right wing media? The same paper that endorsed Obama twice and in the last mid-term endorsed 44 Democrats versus 3 Republicans?
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