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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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"After years of working your way into all sorts of different positions from which to view the incredible creation that is Yosemite Valley, I think you do have a special relationship with the terrain that a flat lander lacks."
I agree with this, and think that it goes beyond just the terrain - some of the most knowledgeable people I have talked with about Yosemite geology are climbers who claim to know nothing of geology.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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There is also just the history of the park and of climbing. When we look up at those cliffs we see not only truly awesome, striking cliffs but all of the adventures and misadventures of fellow climbers over the decades. That is a fundamentally different esperience.
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oldnutz
Trad climber
OAKLAND
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What I found oddly missing (unless I missed it), was no mention of Robbins' seminal article in Summit Magazine that led to the end of pitons...his energetic battle with Harding was well told, but it seemed what logically would follow is a description of how clean climbing took hold after the publication of his "Advanced Rockcraft"?
I was impressed at the breadth of what did make it into the film, but was surprised that no mention was made of the role nuts and passive pro, as well as SLCDs a decade later, had on climbing in the valley.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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"While one can pot shot the film and isolate out those who conform to your favored existential style, I have always believed that the climbing world was big enough for all commers, and have personally enjoyed the diversity found therein. Wishing a rebel like Dean Potter was more like awe-shucks Alex Honnold is to me a vain attempt to wish that this was rather like that because that's how I like my climbers. Whereas to me, the climbing world was the one place where we could all go and escape those kinds of judgements. So to see them trotted back out here, masquerading as sober criticism and humble, honest evaluations is rather disappointing "
Spot on, John.
I don't believe this was specifically directed at your narrative, Ed. I viewed the film as entertainment, not meant to accurately tell the tale climbing in the "Ditch" as a 360* history. Witness the screen time dedicated to the tale of Chongo vs the the almost footnote Bachar's death or almost anything else. I liked it, for what it was.
Oh, and by the way, I got mine at Lower Merced Pass Lake......
TY
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CCT
Trad climber
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Hey Warbler,
Quick note about your comments about women not being at the cutting edge of the sport. Mostly, that's true, Lynne Hill's ascent of the Nose aside.
But, for climbing to be popular, I mean really, truly, popular, women are absolutely essential. Go to any climbing gym, and you will see as many women as men. Ask any younger male climber who his partners are, and there will be women among them. Ask any child who grew up climbing, and odds are good that you will find a mother who climbed, at least a little bit, in her youth, and maybe still does today. Take the women out of climbing, and I honestly believe that you would have a lot fewer men engaged in it too. And that means a lot less pushing of the envelope, if that's what matters to you.
Bev Johnson, Lynne Hill, etc. They opened up the climbing world for women. It would have been nice to see a little time spent on how this dynamic played out in the early years. It can't always have been easy for them.
More relevant to the film than base jumping, anyway.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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he real battles were between YP&CCo (and later MCA) and the climbers, and since their Security forces had no power, NPS was called in to enforce infrigements along the lines of "Defrauding an Innkeeper."
Hah hah eKat. Yeah, I was busted for using the Curry employee showers. The security guard did not have anything on me and called in a NPS LEO.
A ranger came, escorted me to my car (parked in a Curry employee car park, stupid me), and then asked for ID, when I reached into the glove box, he wasn't sure if I was pulling a gun (I hate guns) and pulled his weapon/gun on me, I almost sh#t my pants.
He told me to get my ass and car back to C4.
Later I reported a couple in trouble on the Falls trail, David Y and I had been on an acid trip, he went up (we heard the cries of help from a Camp 4 campfire). I called the rangers from the old gas station next to C4, David and another guy (from Columbia College, not spacing) went up the trail to help the couple (on their honeymoon from Missouri, he had fallen off the trail, landing on a ledge about ten feet below).
A ranger arrived at C4, guess who, yeah. Him. I got grief, he thought I was winding him up.
David and other guy brought the two down safely, the couple treated them to a dinner at the Four Seasons.
Me, nothing but an earful from the LEO. My bad luck.
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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I disagree that good or great climbers are "no better" than common tourists. Most tourists are like big greasy pigs eating vanilla frosty cones and gawking like dairy cattle, they're gas-guzzling robot clowns clogging narrow Valley roads with 3 dumb kids in the backseat. Bitd I gave tourists holy fuking hell. I stared thru them like they didn't exist or physically shoved them out of my way more than once......
Wow, I guess "scrubbing bubbles" is just trying to wind us up, in classic troll style, but this is one guy I don't regret not knowing.
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CCT
Trad climber
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Warbler, I think you misunderstood me. That's cool though. This thread is about the film, not about gender politics in climbing.
And the film was a lot of fun. I'm glad I had a chance to see it. In the unlikely event that it sparks a renaissance of climbing history films (yeah, right), hopefully they will touch upon some of the issues and viewpoints that have been brought up in this thread. More perspectives are always better, especially for the things that interest us!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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The effectiveness of Valley Uprising is that it got us to forget the action stuff and as shown here, is concentrating on the characters - the end-game of all narrarives.
Per specialness, rebels, and so forth, these all reflect - by and large - the perspective and biases of the teller. There is no objective criteria here, unless you posit the whole thing in terms of a task. For the person heading up for a harrowing free solo, they damn well better believe they have special talents. But any perceived arrogance is for some, a call to attack.
For being so robust and tough, we are a fragile bunch per our egos.
JL
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
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"special under the law"
climbers aren't (they may be special for all sorts of other reasons)
under the law, we are to be treated the same as any tourist, visitor, employee...
...if you are going to talk about ranger-climber relations, that is what you are about.
If you think about that, it is a profound realization, and one that can help with the perceived difficulties of being in the Valley.
The responses pointing out "specialness" are exactly why these problems persist.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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they're WAY more fun!
But, the real question is where do you stand vis-a-vis Fee Waybill?
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CCT
Trad climber
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Hey ekat, you sound awesome! And like a true trailblazer for your time! Kudos, and thanks for the traiblazing, even if you don't see it that way.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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...if you are going to talk about ranger-climber relations, that is what you are about.
Again, Ed, this is assuming that this is the linchpin for all climbers - as well it should be. That is a debatable perspective.
When I was in the Valley, I totally ignored the rangers and stayed entirely clear of them. I never once had a run in with one because I was simply not available for the encounter. I played it totally low profile around any park service or Curry Co, personal.
The Jeffersonian chant about "all men are created equal" is a point well taken. But there is no question that some people like Pratt and Bachar were blessed with special talents and they did very special things.
I believe your beef is that some people believe they deserve special treatment. This is balony, of course. But it does not - at least in my mind - negate the very special accomplishment of leading climbers in Yosemire and elsewhere, nor the extreme specialness of the venue - a wonder of the world.
JL
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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eKat-
I could not have expressed my own feelings any better.
Don't worry about what other people think.
Just get out there and do it.
and
"I played with the boys, they're WAY more fun!"
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WBraun
climber
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I got busted taking a shower in the shower house across the street from camp 4.
The housing aszhole called security.
Then the ranger came and said I have to see Judge Pitts.
Pitts says whata ya plead?
I said Guilty !!!!!
Pitts says; "Got anything to say about this?"
I told him everyone calls us dirty dirtbags and then when we try to clean up our act we get busted.
"WTF man!!!"
Everyone in the court room started laughing.
Pitts starts pounding the gavel.
"Quite in the court room!!!!"
Then he said: "$25 Mr Braun" and pounded the gavel again.
Hahahaha Ho mannnn .....
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Great story Werner. That should be in a book or movie somewhere.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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For the most part, my relations with rangers have been positive although I have been pulled over for what I felt were stereotypical reasons. However, simple devices have seemed to bridge good will lately as opposed to sophisticated approaches.
The saving of camp four to me is more of an emblem then reality since camp four is a pain in the ass to stay in. Ed, you yourself brought up one of the most recent important bridges, the Facelift. The other I would mention, although with much less publicity but which is having a great impact is bolt replacement. The fact that Roger Brown has volunteer status and can (almost) officially represent as both a true volunteer from the public with a climbing bent if you will, and be recognized by the NPS is an excellent example of a positive relationship between the communities. Most of us re-bolting have been able to foster a good relationship within the ranger community with both climbing and non- climbing rangers.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
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these days, if you spend time as a climber in the Valley, or even watching the sequence in "Valley Uprising" were Dean (?) get's pulled over and has the video on ("please turn the video off sir"), you can try to avoid the rangers, but they may actually be looking out for you.
in particular, if you are going from a known climber venue (e.g. the East Auditorium area during FaceLift) and you have anything wrong with your slightly beat up car, you'll be pulled over. In fact, if you do anything at all, say you are waiting at the stop sign at the 3 way stop, four way intersection and the car that has a right-of-way stops and waits for you, you pull out and and then realize (you're getting lit up) that that car was a ranger... they pull you over for not yielding (entrapment?).
You get the explanation why you are pulled over (your headlight is out, you weaved onto the line, you didn't yield) then you get asked all sorts of things about what you've been doing: had anything to drink tonight, had any drugs, what's that in the bottle, what's in the pack, do you mind if we take a look in your car...
you have to know that anything unrelated to why you were pulled over for is IRRELEVANT and you do not have to answer. You do not have to let them look in your car. If it is about your headlight, then you're done... "I'll get it fixed at the soonest possible opportunity, thank you officer"
that's what it's like in the Valley today.
Now BITD, it wasn't like that... and it isn't because the climbers avoided the rangers, rangers won't be avoided if they don't want to be...
That's where the role of the U.S. Magistrates comes in...
The question is: why have the recent Magistrates allowed such blatant profiling to occur?
or at least that is one way of looking at it.
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ryankelly
Trad climber
el portal
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Funny Werner-man
#supertopoGOLD
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