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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Sep 25, 2014 - 07:30am PT
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didn't the Chapman/Bachar thing happen in the 80's?
Also, the big deal with Lynn Hill is she free climbed the Nose, not just any El Cap route.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Sep 25, 2014 - 09:34am PT
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I enjoyed your rant, Stainless! But it wasn't very rant-like. You didn't call anyone an a&*-hole. Far too civil and well-written for a rant.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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The Chapman/Bachar altercation was 88 or 89, after Punchline. In my head I'd mixed it up with Crossroads, 91 I think. It doesn't change the point, which is that is was used way out of context, rap bolting sports climbs, the actual issue, versus putting bolts on climbs at all in the 70s, which was a completely different era.
Hill's ascent was clearly an evolution of style. It's just that they stated she had starting the big wall free climbing movement, which she hadn't. Skinner/Piana did, maybe even more for their compromised style than for their success, but that doesn't change the fact that it was them that got others to get up there.
I'm really not trying to nitpick the film. Mostly I liked it. It's just that blatantly changing history under the guise that you're making a documentary is wrong.
I am particularly irritated about the Croft/Bachar thing. It's disrespectful to both of them. Croft's so mellow that I'd say Bachar would be the one most pissed off by using one of the more iconic photos in climbing history, but not one that's of him, in order to honor him. Then there's leaving Croft out of the film show they can so they can show more footage of their buddies from Boulder yammering about sh#t they weren't around for. I guess I can throw in a f*#k you for that.
And, yes, it's not a very good rant. Trying to keep my Dudeness about me.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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Umm, wait. Did you just call The Salathe "any El Cap route"? I hope Royal Robbins doesn't frequent this place.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:54am PT
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In fact...
The more I think about it, the more I think the 80s were the iconic decade of the Valley. The 60s and 70s set it up but, by the 80s, everyone who was anyone in climbing in the entire world came to the Valley. It wasn't like today, when you had to choose between hundreds of venues. There was one. By the 90s the sport had diffused. The competition was insane, as was the progression. If you stood out in the Valley in the 80s, you were definitely someone in the sport. The idea that you can leave this out of a film on Valley history had me perplexed to no end.
Someone should make a film about this.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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I thought Hudon and Jones started the big wallfree climbing movement.
Free as can be.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:33am PT
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I liked it. I tried to just let it wash over me and not apply too critical an eye. I also try (always, but it's not always possible) to judge what is there, not what has been left out. That doesn't change the fact that everything included is done so at the expense of what has not been included.
I may have been the oldest dude in the house last night (Bear Tooth, Anchorage) and am hesitant to even guess the average age of the crowd (20?). It's pretty unlikely that very many of them have climbed in the Valley.
This made me wonder who the projected audience was for this film and I guess the answer was sitting with me there in the theater: young folks with no personal "counter-narrative" with which to compare.
Like I said, I liked it, but most of what Stainless notes in his first post is hard to ignore.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:37am PT
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Saw it last night to a packed brew pub theater in Anchorage, Dolomite you must have been there. Entertaining, good times, good memories.
I know everyone cannot be included, but how could you by-pass Peter Croft and his solo of Astroman or any mention of Ray Jardine (Nose don’t go free boys without Ray’s chisel or his friends.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:41am PT
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"I thought Hudon and Jones started the big wallfree climbing movement."
Arguably yes. Another big exclusion for sure.
Croft on Astroman. Sheesh. If you want to get techie, Potter's repeat skipped the hard pitch low so you have to wait 20 years for a proper repeat. I'd call that more ahead of its time than most things in the film.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:49am PT
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Stainless,
I don't know the details... regarding validity and/or accuracy...
but I like the way you think and write.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 25, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Yeah, Stainless just totally nailed what it was that led to many "WTF" moments for me. Like I posted earlier, I left at half time, but more because of the NAU student clueless gym-crowd audience. I was LOVING the film -- it was so fun to watch -- and I'm going to buy my own copy the second it becomes available. But for folks who don't know different, this film becomes their historical baseline. I'm afraid, like Kevin, that this is yet another step on the road of unintentional revisionism. I mean, I've never even heard of the stone monkeys. Maybe that's my bad, but whatever.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Sep 25, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
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The stone monkey moniker was a gimmick slang created by a blogger looking to start a trend.
Obviously it didn't take but since he must be friends with the filmmakers it was included.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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Stainless makes some good points.
I saw the film with a packed house in Massachusetts. There were only a few guys of my vintage there, who climbed in the Valley in the early 70's, and most were the 20's -30's crowd, who had to take what was presented at face value.
I enjoyed the film realizing that it is tough to please everyone. Perhaps Croft didn't want to be represented in the film.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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Hill's ascent was clearly an evolution of style. It's just that they stated she had starting the big wall free climbing movement, which she hadn't. Skinner/Piana did, maybe even more for their compromised style than for their success, but that doesn't change the fact that it was them that got others to get up there.
I thought Huddon and Jones tried to free it prior and did free 95%+ or something ridiculous. However, IMHO there is probably not a single attempt or event that revolutionized it as much as Hill freeing the Nose. She free climbed the most iconic big wall route on earth, without any fuss or conspiracy (?). Big deal. Before that many people tried to free climb El Cap routes. Best in the world tried. Best climbers in Yosemite tried. There is an old flick about Kauk going for it on youtube. Hill’s achievement proved that it is not only possible for a single person to achieve but by a female. Not to be sexist, but historically females have not climbed as hard as males as a gender (due to being a minority likely), but she basically crushed the assumption that males have some superiority and free climbing giant aid lines was impossible. Well, just my perception, I guess they couldn’t give props to every single person who tried to free a wall etc.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
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Great review Doug, thank you very much for that!
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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There is an old flick about Kauk going for it on youtube.
Kauk got shut down because the Great Roof was soaking wet with water running out of the crack up at the crux,
He was the first to try to Free the Nose during a winter drier spell.
Jardine doesn't count.
He's a debauch hangdog chiseler total bullsh!t ethics.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
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Kauk got shut down because the Great Roof was soaking wet with water running out of the crack up at the crux
Did he ever try again or try to work on it like the modern climbers do on big walls?
PS: you are a star in that flick too ;)
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
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No Ron didn't try again.
I'm no star and I don't belong in there.
It's for real climbers like you Vitaliy .....
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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Nope, not for me. Not nearly enough skills or desire. Would love to do crest jewel this fall though. Still have not climbed it. Looks super fun.
Edit: Dingus, I joined a climbing gym after I started mountaineering and scrambling in the start of 2010. My friend took me to costumes and we top roped dinkum crack. Was owned big time, and he recommended I joined a gym so I could climb longer routes with him. Climbing seemed fun.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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Trying to decide if this is worth seeing, as I'm woefully ignorant of climbing's history.
I realize that I know of only a snapshot with features of Brutus of Wyde, Rgold, Scuffy, WBraun, Vitaliy, and other cats around the Taco than I do of Bachar, Croft, Harding, Lynn Hill, and all the people who have built up the world of climbing as I have come to know it.
I realize that I will be viewing it from an entirely different perspective than most people here, and that makes me even more curious.
I'm by no means a 'real' climber, but hell, even us dabblers and posers can enjoy a good story, yes?
Sides, the real questions is...what's the most appropriate drinking game for this movie?
:)
Cheers
LS
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