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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 13, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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I'm on the road, so haven't even taken in all that's being said on the existing threads, but scanning quickly I see a lot of reactions to reactions. So here, very briefly, is a first impression from what I saw:
Valley Uprising played to a packed house, folding their umbrellas at Boulder's Chautauqua pavilion right below the Flatirons trail. A barn of a building, the premiere sold out at many hundreds. Dirtbags hunched in the rain outside plaintively called out "tickets?" just like at a Dead concert. A cold night in Boulder with snow on the Flatirons the next morning, climbers shivered in the huge drafty space. Largo in his t-shirt was typical, wrapped gratefully in a squaw-like blanket as he huddled at the celebrity-signing table after.
The film is excellent! In spite of some justifiable carping by Bisharat about all that was left on the cutting room floor to fit the Epic of the Gulch into an hour and a half, the essential stories, from the Golden Age feud of Harding vs Robbins to Chapman explaining how he punched out Bachar in the parking lot over bolting, all got told. The most obvious omissions, from Croft to Skinner, were acknowledged in an afterword. The impossibility of even touching upon all the skeins of Yosemite's history became obvious as the story unfolded. Climbing's counterculture underbelly quickly became a theme, beginning with the "rucksack revolution" passage from Kerouack's The Dharma Bums, and going on to highlight the perennial conflict with the rangers, nicely wrapped up in homage to Chongo Chuck, who after years of playing cat-and-mouse with the rangers, ended up banished forever, to live under a bridge in Sacramento. Especially good was imaginative animation of a tab of blotter acid shimmering in paisley on Bridwell's tongue, transforming to his eyeballs spinning. I, at least, liked that part. Also well done was animation of the story of the Lockheed Lodestar augering into Upper Merced Pass Lake carrying tons of weed, and the gold rush that followed, complete with a segue to how the story got twisted into a Stallone blockbuster and ending with Chicken Skinner holding up a piece of the wing. When his climbing museum gets built, that'l be quite a sidelight.
Overall the film is inspiring and great fun, highlighted by gripping climbing footage. Lynn Hill got the loudest applause, especially for "It goes, boys!" after freeing the Nose. And Alex Honnold finished the evening worn out from signing so many posters. Dean Potter was cool and enigmatic as ever, sipping his drink at the after-party. I was glad to see him slack-lining the Lost Arrow untethered and a healthy dose of BASE jumping footage, all hinting at the creative diversity blossoming out of climbing as it grows, healthy and divergent, beyond the Valley. Bravo!
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 13, 2014 - 11:15am PT
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Damn, Doug!
Watched it a last night. I was pondering trying to write something but you kinda already said it, only better...
thanks!
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Sep 13, 2014 - 02:21pm PT
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Turns out I will be able to make facelift. Looking a forward. To seeing this!
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Sep 13, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
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bridge under Sacramento is the new bridge over troubled water
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Sep 13, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 13, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
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Hahahaha Ho Mannnn Ricky ..... lol
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 15, 2014 - 07:28am PT
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Bump! Looking forward to seeing this show at Facelift this year!
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 15, 2014 - 07:45am PT
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Hmm. Where to watch this? SC or SF? For 20 or so of us.
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 19, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
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Valley Uprising
Tues., Sept. 23rd, 7:00pm
Vine Theater & Alehouse
1722 1st St (between O St & N St)
Livermore, CA 94550
Fee: unknown
Doors open @ 6:30pm
Sponsor: Sunrise Mountain Sports
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Sep 21, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
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What night does it play at Facelift?
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Sep 21, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
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I tell you, these filmmakers are missing the boat: HBO, docudrama, series, it will be the next "game of Thrones".
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schwortz
Social climber
"close to everything = not at anything", ca
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Sep 21, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
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Friday October 17, 2014 in Davis, CA
Brunelle Performance Hall
Davis Senior High School
315 W. 14th Street, Davis, CA 95616
Doors open at 7pm, showtime at 7:30
Tickets are available for purchase in person at Rocknasium OR by phone at 530.757.2902 - tickets are $12.
Tickets will also be available for purchase ONLINE at Eventbrite!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 22, 2014 - 12:12am PT
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How much for half-a-ticket, Holmes? Will there be separate viewings for actual climbers, you know, people who climb cracks n' stuff, and the woebegone plastic crowd?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Sep 22, 2014 - 07:36am PT
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I seen it Friday night. A little pretentious at the start--declaring the start of free climbing begin there??--a yes to drugs mixed with climbing and yes to big walls. But the Conns were doing free climbing in the west--the Black Hills as early as 1948, some time before 1964.
Hats off to Warren Harding--a man who could use his head to act on his own ways--not the cute paper rules that some else would write.
And yes the Big Wall Man of Rules later announces how sport climbing is the baby that eats its mother. Well sport climbing started in Europe, not the Valley and was no progeny of the Robbins bullshit but the manifestation of other ways to climb that did ruin his narrow view of how the public will use the rock. The Sport climbing community is Not a group of self thinking no group input elitists.
And no mention of Don Peterson the man who could at youth tell Robbins where to shove it. A young man not to be domineered by Jackasses. Those that try to jack you around.
Great Movie -- don't miss it.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Sep 22, 2014 - 07:26pm PT
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 23, 2014 - 07:35am PT
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I guess they showing this tonight on Yosemite. Too bad I ain't there.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 23, 2014 - 08:43am PT
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Need. To. Catch.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 07:06am PT
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I don't come to Super Topo often but, as I was watching this, I was thinking about the ranting that must be going on here. Don't know if I missed the right thread but this isn't the Super Topo I remember. Where are the rants?! Well, here is mine. Keep in mind I'm leaving a lot out.
I understand the need to tell a concise story in a three act structure but this film's going to serve as a history book, for some, and the number of errors, omissions, and sheer lies is egregious. Here are a few grievances.
Stonemasters were a SoCal club. They had nothing to do with Yosemite. Yes, they climbed there but calling all Yosemite climbers is akin to calling Dogtown's Z-Boys the entire California skate scene.
Stone Monkeys, wtf? I'm no longer a Valley local but I know many of the people in the film, some I'm in touch with regularly, and I've never heard mention of a Stone Monkey other than Johnny Dawes. If you started climbing in the 70s or 80s in SoCal you knew of the Stonemasters. I climbed Valhalla (entrance exam for SM) as my right of passage as soon as I could, even though it no longer existed. But 15 years of "Stone Monkeys" has somehow passed without a mention in the media. I don't think so.
Chronology. Events are placed out of order and are often off by decades. Chapman punched Bachar in the 90s, not the 70s. The 80s and 90s are basically ignored, which I'd submit was time of the biggest jump in standards. I assume they just didn't have footage of it.
Foreign climbers flocked to the Valley long before the 3rd act. It was the center of the climbing universe for most of the 80s. You could sit in the cafeteria on a fall or spring morning and see pretty much every person you'd ever seen in a magazine. This was somehow left out.
Dean Potter did not start base jumping and highining in the Valley. Good Lord, they'd been going on for decades. I've yet to do El Cap without someone jumping off it. Climbers didn't even start the base jump movement in the Valley. The filmmakers just wanted an excuse to use a lot of cool footage they had (much not from the Valley). And, hell, Chongo, who gets a homage in the film, had highlined the Lost Arrow ages before Potter.
Not to take anything away from Lynn, who's super rad, but Lynn Hill was not the first person to free climb El Cap. Skinner and Piana freed the Salathe, with much controversy, years before. Like Harding, they had the balls to try before anybody else and it was they, not Hill, who changed the big wall free climbing game. This is historically huge.
Most of all, the was PETER CROFT, not John Bachar soloing the Rostrum. Look, Bachar deserves any and all credit you want to give him but he does not deserve to be misrepresented. He changed the sport and so did Croft, who soloed Astroman and The Rostrum decades before they were repeated. Croft's contribution to Valley history is more impressive than some people in the film. Okay, you have to leave some important people out. I get it. But if a guy's accomplishments are so impressive that you can't leave them out, don't just give them to somebody else. That's worse than being sloppy, it's offensive.
Anyway, this is an entertaining film. I enjoyed watching it, especially the old footage (most of the modern footage has been in recent films), but it's not a documentary. It's a fictionalized account based on true events.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Sep 25, 2014 - 07:30am PT
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didn't the Chapman/Bachar thing happen in the 80's?
Also, the big deal with Lynn Hill is she free climbed the Nose, not just any El Cap route.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Sep 25, 2014 - 09:34am PT
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I enjoyed your rant, Stainless! But it wasn't very rant-like. You didn't call anyone an a&*-hole. Far too civil and well-written for a rant.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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The Chapman/Bachar altercation was 88 or 89, after Punchline. In my head I'd mixed it up with Crossroads, 91 I think. It doesn't change the point, which is that is was used way out of context, rap bolting sports climbs, the actual issue, versus putting bolts on climbs at all in the 70s, which was a completely different era.
Hill's ascent was clearly an evolution of style. It's just that they stated she had starting the big wall free climbing movement, which she hadn't. Skinner/Piana did, maybe even more for their compromised style than for their success, but that doesn't change the fact that it was them that got others to get up there.
I'm really not trying to nitpick the film. Mostly I liked it. It's just that blatantly changing history under the guise that you're making a documentary is wrong.
I am particularly irritated about the Croft/Bachar thing. It's disrespectful to both of them. Croft's so mellow that I'd say Bachar would be the one most pissed off by using one of the more iconic photos in climbing history, but not one that's of him, in order to honor him. Then there's leaving Croft out of the film show they can so they can show more footage of their buddies from Boulder yammering about sh#t they weren't around for. I guess I can throw in a f*#k you for that.
And, yes, it's not a very good rant. Trying to keep my Dudeness about me.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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Umm, wait. Did you just call The Salathe "any El Cap route"? I hope Royal Robbins doesn't frequent this place.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:54am PT
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In fact...
The more I think about it, the more I think the 80s were the iconic decade of the Valley. The 60s and 70s set it up but, by the 80s, everyone who was anyone in climbing in the entire world came to the Valley. It wasn't like today, when you had to choose between hundreds of venues. There was one. By the 90s the sport had diffused. The competition was insane, as was the progression. If you stood out in the Valley in the 80s, you were definitely someone in the sport. The idea that you can leave this out of a film on Valley history had me perplexed to no end.
Someone should make a film about this.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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I thought Hudon and Jones started the big wallfree climbing movement.
Free as can be.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:33am PT
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I liked it. I tried to just let it wash over me and not apply too critical an eye. I also try (always, but it's not always possible) to judge what is there, not what has been left out. That doesn't change the fact that everything included is done so at the expense of what has not been included.
I may have been the oldest dude in the house last night (Bear Tooth, Anchorage) and am hesitant to even guess the average age of the crowd (20?). It's pretty unlikely that very many of them have climbed in the Valley.
This made me wonder who the projected audience was for this film and I guess the answer was sitting with me there in the theater: young folks with no personal "counter-narrative" with which to compare.
Like I said, I liked it, but most of what Stainless notes in his first post is hard to ignore.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:37am PT
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Saw it last night to a packed brew pub theater in Anchorage, Dolomite you must have been there. Entertaining, good times, good memories.
I know everyone cannot be included, but how could you by-pass Peter Croft and his solo of Astroman or any mention of Ray Jardine (Nose don’t go free boys without Ray’s chisel or his friends.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:41am PT
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"I thought Hudon and Jones started the big wallfree climbing movement."
Arguably yes. Another big exclusion for sure.
Croft on Astroman. Sheesh. If you want to get techie, Potter's repeat skipped the hard pitch low so you have to wait 20 years for a proper repeat. I'd call that more ahead of its time than most things in the film.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:49am PT
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Stainless,
I don't know the details... regarding validity and/or accuracy...
but I like the way you think and write.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 25, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Yeah, Stainless just totally nailed what it was that led to many "WTF" moments for me. Like I posted earlier, I left at half time, but more because of the NAU student clueless gym-crowd audience. I was LOVING the film -- it was so fun to watch -- and I'm going to buy my own copy the second it becomes available. But for folks who don't know different, this film becomes their historical baseline. I'm afraid, like Kevin, that this is yet another step on the road of unintentional revisionism. I mean, I've never even heard of the stone monkeys. Maybe that's my bad, but whatever.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Sep 25, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
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The stone monkey moniker was a gimmick slang created by a blogger looking to start a trend.
Obviously it didn't take but since he must be friends with the filmmakers it was included.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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Stainless makes some good points.
I saw the film with a packed house in Massachusetts. There were only a few guys of my vintage there, who climbed in the Valley in the early 70's, and most were the 20's -30's crowd, who had to take what was presented at face value.
I enjoyed the film realizing that it is tough to please everyone. Perhaps Croft didn't want to be represented in the film.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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Hill's ascent was clearly an evolution of style. It's just that they stated she had starting the big wall free climbing movement, which she hadn't. Skinner/Piana did, maybe even more for their compromised style than for their success, but that doesn't change the fact that it was them that got others to get up there.
I thought Huddon and Jones tried to free it prior and did free 95%+ or something ridiculous. However, IMHO there is probably not a single attempt or event that revolutionized it as much as Hill freeing the Nose. She free climbed the most iconic big wall route on earth, without any fuss or conspiracy (?). Big deal. Before that many people tried to free climb El Cap routes. Best in the world tried. Best climbers in Yosemite tried. There is an old flick about Kauk going for it on youtube. Hill’s achievement proved that it is not only possible for a single person to achieve but by a female. Not to be sexist, but historically females have not climbed as hard as males as a gender (due to being a minority likely), but she basically crushed the assumption that males have some superiority and free climbing giant aid lines was impossible. Well, just my perception, I guess they couldn’t give props to every single person who tried to free a wall etc.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
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Great review Doug, thank you very much for that!
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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There is an old flick about Kauk going for it on youtube.
Kauk got shut down because the Great Roof was soaking wet with water running out of the crack up at the crux,
He was the first to try to Free the Nose during a winter drier spell.
Jardine doesn't count.
He's a debauch hangdog chiseler total bullsh!t ethics.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
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Kauk got shut down because the Great Roof was soaking wet with water running out of the crack up at the crux
Did he ever try again or try to work on it like the modern climbers do on big walls?
PS: you are a star in that flick too ;)
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
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No Ron didn't try again.
I'm no star and I don't belong in there.
It's for real climbers like you Vitaliy .....
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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Nope, not for me. Not nearly enough skills or desire. Would love to do crest jewel this fall though. Still have not climbed it. Looks super fun.
Edit: Dingus, I joined a climbing gym after I started mountaineering and scrambling in the start of 2010. My friend took me to costumes and we top roped dinkum crack. Was owned big time, and he recommended I joined a gym so I could climb longer routes with him. Climbing seemed fun.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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Trying to decide if this is worth seeing, as I'm woefully ignorant of climbing's history.
I realize that I know of only a snapshot with features of Brutus of Wyde, Rgold, Scuffy, WBraun, Vitaliy, and other cats around the Taco than I do of Bachar, Croft, Harding, Lynn Hill, and all the people who have built up the world of climbing as I have come to know it.
I realize that I will be viewing it from an entirely different perspective than most people here, and that makes me even more curious.
I'm by no means a 'real' climber, but hell, even us dabblers and posers can enjoy a good story, yes?
Sides, the real questions is...what's the most appropriate drinking game for this movie?
:)
Cheers
LS
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
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Umm, wait. Did you just call The Salathe "any El Cap route"?
No, but what made Hill's climb so legendary was that it was the Nose. If it was any other route it would not have had the impact that it did.
Actually, I was just driving home from the gym and thinking about a time when my partner and I got out before work and did a couple of pitches of Salathe. It was just another great Yosemite memory!!!
BTW I haven't seen it yet (it's not coming to my town until November)
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
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Sides, the real questions is...what's the most appropriate drinking game for this movie?
I think any time you see behavior that'd get you tooled by the man, bam, drink time.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:25pm PT
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Having to choose a drinking game in the first place shows a lack of dedication.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
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The kids are alright!
Good post dingus
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Sep 26, 2014 - 12:00am PT
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Walleye
climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Sep 25, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
"SLACK, Dipstick!"
Lol!!! Best line.
Stainless, great posts.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 26, 2014 - 04:23am PT
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yet another step on the road of unintentional revisionism. Here here, hear hear!
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Sep 26, 2014 - 04:33am PT
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Hey cats,
few of you don't know but the California is the center of the universe. Where else does anything at all happen?
Let's say the movie got it right??
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Sep 29, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
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OK.... playing downtown this Thursday. 10/2
Im looking forward to watching.
Maybe see some STers down there????
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 29, 2014 - 01:39pm PT
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I don't think Scott Frey was ever able to free the great roof. A friend of mine was roommates with Frey BITD, he says that Scott would hang one hand from a pull bar with weights in the other hand trying to stretch his arms so he could make a long reach on the great roof!
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 29, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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I dug it, and The Valley was an awesome venue! Lots of monkey noises....
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 30, 2014 - 10:25pm PT
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Watched it today. Interesting movie. Royal and Harding section was my favorite part. Too bad they didn't talk about Pratt. But again. They left a lot of people out.
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