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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:32am PT
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Here is a longer talk by General Zinni about his book.(1hr)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
He didn't, however address the bald guy in the tank top's question about an analysis of who really profits from war in the long run, which is different from how much it costs.
And I'm not convinced his analysis of which recent presidents had real experience in the workings of politics on the hill is accurate. He named GHW Bush, who spent four years as a congressman from 1966-70. By my count that puts him about third on the list of recent presidents. Bush spent most of his time in non elected positions.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:52am PT
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yes, i had a 'one time clearance' too, and as we both know, that is irrelevant. If my assertion were secret - that pesky 'need to know' clause would keep us both in the dark, regardless of our 007 status.
our intelligence services conclusion is not secret, however. its in the public domain and readily available. i read it in the NYT, but the googlez will produce much rich intel for the 007s out there, im sure.
we're attacking ISIS at the request of the Iraqi govt, and that os our SOLE stated justification. The legality of our actions in Syria is dubious and currently being challenged.
Some here would like to believe that ISIS is a threat to us to justify our actions as self defense, but thats not whats happening. It is an assumption born of being underinformed and over opinionated.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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Why does Tvash get upset...
Maybe he needs to take (a) a probability science course of some kind; and (b) a Human Functioning 101 course?
It's as if he's living in something of a fog sometimes and doesn't always see things clearly.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 25, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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Tvash, as a rule, naval officers don't get 'one time clearances'.
And if I had taken that job in Langley, VA I would have had an even higher one.
I suggest you come down off of yer high horse, brah.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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In summary, one must ask "what is the justification for US attacks on ISIS - in Iraq (sanctioned) by the Iraqi govt), in Syria (not sanctioned)?
Its not self defense.
Defense of an ally?
Humanitarian mission?
Is the US taking on radical Islam worldwide as a new phase of the WOT?
Or just in our areas of interest ( oil, etc)?
And, as always, what are the risks of such strategies?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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you didnt take that job, however, so that is also irrelevant- to any discussion of anything. You're actually the first person I've ever encountered who has attempted to credit their self described expertise to experience they opted out of and therefore never had.
Apparently the Flybox syndrome is contagious.
'need to know'. you might review that 007 .
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couchmaster
climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
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When you have as many bombs stored up as we do, ya just have to use them Dingus.
FACT
We have always been at war with Oceania.
Last year Syria was the Presidents red line and we were going to bomb them for having gas, this year we attack their attackers. It should revert next year and we'll go with bombing the Syrians or more likely the Iranians.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
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Big Brother neednt lift an eyebrow.
As this forum clearly shows, our fine citizens are perfectly willing to herd each over a cliff.
The ignorance, fear, and indignation of coddled entitlement is all it takes.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 25, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
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My four year old could point out this Wag the Dog scenario.
I mean really... how more obvious can they get?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 25, 2014 - 01:41pm PT
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If you want a war go fight the goddamn thing...
Naw, bluering would rather a bunch of chicks go do his fighting for him.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
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I agree with a draft - an all ages draft. The only thing that gets you out of it is poor health. Healthy grampas and grandmas can slop the troops in the chow line or work a desk.
Oh, is your business gonna fail if you're deployed? Tough shite.
You want a war? You got one - and that does mean YOU.
That would also be the end of the universal health care argument, toot sweet.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Sep 25, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
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Naw, bluering would rather a bunch of chicks go do his fighting for him.
Hope Solo is in Syria?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
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I agree with a draft - an all ages draft. The only thing that gets you out of it is poor health.
Already have it! But I agree age should not be factor, the older guys can do SOMETHING.
Should women be exempt is the next question. There are non-combat roles for women too.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
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We don't have a draft. We have a draft registration. We had a draft (sort of) when I was growing up. We also had a bunch of anti-war protests. Go figure.
Women should not be exempted from any roles. Full participation, Israeli style.
You want war, citizen? No problem. You get to come!
You want to opt out of the decision making process because 'politics isn't your thing'? Have a nice deployment, sucker.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
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the older guys can do SOMETHING.
Go Blue!
What's your plan?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
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What's your plan?
Everybody on the planet gets one armed drone.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Sep 25, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
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Here's the IS retirement plan.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 25, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
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someonez gotta protect the home front.
Locked and Loaded.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 25, 2014 - 08:18pm PT
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They are truly brutal and I mean that. Reminds me of christian treatment of American indians and African slaves. History is rife with man's inhumanity to man because someone was considered a heathen or apostatic by "religious", but certainly not good, people.
It waxes and wanes and one religion assumes the current throne of barbarisim but they all get their turn.
Little to choose between them.
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