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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 25, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
but in a modern world one would hope that human intelligence will eventually reason and win out.


They hoped that in 1931 too.

There is no reasoning with evil.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Aug 25, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
John and Reilly.

Yeah. Yep. Will history and humankind repeat themselves?

One would hope not, but…

John, the massacre of Armenians in 1915 (give or take a couple of years, it was ongoing) just shows that we humans are not that intelligent in some ways.

What can we do? Go climbing?

That's nice perhaps even is some way reassuring, but it will not solve a problem that over the millennia us humans can not or will not tackle.

I have NO answers. Except to try and treat people of all ilks like, people. But that does not seem to work. Going over eight billion people, how to achieve a consensus. As much as I am an eternal optimist, I just don't see it.

That said, we are not a stupid species. But eight billion and counting, wow, what a road to tackle.

We can though, in our own small ways, hopefully as a collective, I don't know, perhaps make a difference. Call me naive. But I have to hope for the best. There will be pain and sorrow. I probably will not see humanity rise to its best in my lifetime.

But we have to pass on the belief to our next generations.

We can do it. Not ISIS, not the US, not Russia, not…

Now, I have my kayak ready to take out on the Celtic Sea this morning, I have a good partner in Jennie, and if it stops raining perhaps a visit to Rocklands, a funky crag, but all there is locally.

And ISIS can go to hell. They will not grow much larger, despite the disillusioned youth/people in many countries thinking that… thinking that…

Intelligence will prevail over these headcases. It has to.

I have to believe that.


EDIT

Just watched The Great Escape, Jennie has not seen it before. Some great actors. Of course one of my favorites, James Garner and Richard Attenborough RIP yesterday, James Coburn, Charles Bronson, Donald Pleasance, and others

I have met six Taoiseachs (Irish for prime minister), interviewed some of them. Most of them gobshites.

Albert Reynolds just passed away. He was a businessman who came into politics late. But in his short term as Taoiseach, he achieved a lot. He helped to pave the way for peace in Northern Ireland. May he rest in peace.

EDIT

I suppose I bring this up as a sectarian issue. Protestants versus Catholics, like in the North (and remember, to aspire to the British throne, one can be a Jew, Muslim, whatever but not a Catholic. Weird.). So Shiite versus Sunni, don't believe in ISIS, off with your head.

Someday it will be a war between trad climbers and sport climbers. I won't be around.

I am glad I am an atheist.
crankster

Trad climber
Aug 25, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
You must be taking those drugs too from reading the bizarre garbage coming out of your stupid head ......

Ignore the ST bully, Ken.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
Fear the professional army, citizen, for it will be the vehicle that runs over democracy, in the end.

DMT


There are many things I fear more than professional, America-loving soldiers. In fact, they are probably our last hope at defending our homeland from enemies domestic and abroad.

And I don't really 'fear' a lot. I just worry about the state of our gov't and it's impacts on this population.

And we already have 'boots on the ground' in Norther Iraq. The Air Force has spec ops teams specifically designed to be inserted covertly and set up mobile Air Traffic Control/Target Acquisition platforms.

This is in addition to Green Berets training Kurds and probably SEALs doing Search/Destroy missions.

There are plenty of good-guys on the ground. Plotting. Taking notes. This little mission prolly won't need Marines and the Army (except at the embassies, unlike Benghazi).

We may be able to pull this deal off with spec ops and air superiority. We'll see.

Yeah, I said 'we', Dingus....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 25, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
We may be able to pull this deal off with spec ops and air superiority. We'll see.

Bluie, that hasn't worked in Afghanistan despite having tens of thousands of boots on the ground. Why would it work better in Syria/N. Iraq?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
Bluie, that hasn't worked in Afghanistan despite having tens of thousands of boots on the ground. Why would it work better in Syria/N. Iraq?


Nah. I think is doable in my scenario. We have Kurds who hate IS (like Northern Alliance), Assad in Syria who is fighting them as well, in addition to a growing Iraqi comeback. They just needs air reinforcements and our satellite data and targeting.

All conflicts and wars have been fought for resource strategy. Getting shot dead because the other guy deserves a fair chance is what happens to soldiers who have never gone through a divorce at the request of their one and only...


See above what I said to Reilly. These guys don't give a f*#k about resources, just a religious caliphate, but they will use resources to fund their murderous goals....

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 25, 2014 - 08:10pm PT
These guys don't give a f*#k about resources,

Oh, but I am quite sure you are wrong there. I have long viewed these groups as virtually
indistinguishable from LA street gangs and we well know to what ends those guys will go to
avoid getting a day job. Wrapping yourself in a holier-than-thou cloak doesn't pay the bills,
especially if you're going to take over the world. Why else do you think they have been so
intent on taking the Kurds' oil fields and the dam we just drove them away from?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 25, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
Syria warns US: No unilateral strikes on militants
In this photo released by the Syrian official news agency SANA, Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem speaks during a press conference, giving the first public comments by a senior Assad official on the threat posed by the Islamic State group, in Damascus, Syria on Monday, August 25, 2014. Al-Moallem warned the U.S. not to conduct airstrikes inside Syria against the Islamic State group without Damascus’ consent, saying any such attack would be considered an aggression. Al-Moallem also said that Syria is ready to work with regional states and the international community amid the onslaught of Islamic militants there and in Iraq, adding that the Syrian government is a crucial partner in the war on terror. (AP Photo - SANA)
By RYAN LUCAS
From Associated Press
August 25, 2014 9:20 PM EST

BEIRUT (AP) — Syria said Monday it was ready to help confront the rising threat from the Islamic State group, but warned the United States against carrying out airstrikes without Damascus' consent, saying any such attack would be considered an aggression.

In seeking to portray itself as a partner for the international community, Syria seemed intent on capitalizing on the growing clamor among some U.S. officials, including military leaders, to expand the current American air campaign against the Islamic extremists in Iraq and to hit them in Syria as well.

President Barack Obama has long been wary of getting dragged into the bloody and complex Syrian civil war that the United Nations says has killed more than 190,000 people. He has resisted intervening militarily in the conflict, even after a deadly chemical weapons attack a year ago that Washington blamed on President Bashar Assad's government.

But the extremist group's rampage across wide swaths of Iraq, declaration of a state governed by their harsh interpretation of Islamic law in territory spanning the Iraq-Syria border, and grisly beheading of an American journalist, have injected a new dynamic into those calculations. Now, Obama faces pressure from his own military leaders to go after the extremists inside Syria.

On Monday, a senior administration official said Obama authorized surveillance flights over Syria, a move that could pave the way for U.S. airstrikes. The official who confirmed the decision was not authorized to discuss Obama's decision publicly by name, and insisted on anonymity.

Speaking in Damascus, Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem appeared acutely aware of how much has changed since last August, when the U.S. was threatening to carry out punitive airstrikes against Assad's government in the wake of the chemical attack. Since then, global disapproval has shifted away from Assad and toward the Islamic extremists who are fighting him and spreading destruction across Syria and Iraq.

Al-Moallem told reporters his government is ready "to cooperate and coordinate" with any side, including the U.S., or join any regional or international alliance against the Islamic State group. But he said any military action inside Syria should be coordinated with the Syrian government.

"Any strike which is not coordinated with the government will be considered as aggression," he said.

He said Damascus has warned repeatedly of the threat of terrorism and the need to cut off resources and funding, but "no one listened to us." Syria's government has long described the rebels fighting to topple Assad as "terrorists" in a foreign conspiracy.

In Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov also said Western nations that long refused to condemn Assad's enemies were now coming to realize the threat posed by the Islamic State group.

The West, he said, will "have to choose what is more important: to change the regime and satisfy personal antipathies with the risk that the situation will crumble, or find pragmatic ways to join efforts against the common threat, which is the same for all of us — terrorism."

Moscow has been a close ally of Damascus for decades, and has provided it with weapons and funding to help support Assad throughout the current conflict.

Mustafa Alani, the director of the security and defense department at the Gulf Research Center in Geneva, said Syria's offer aims to take advantage of current events in Iraq, and the corresponding shift in American and European attitudes about Assad and the Islamic State extremists.

"The Syrian government is trying to say they are on the same side as the international community. The old claim from Day 1 that the Syrians have tried to make is that they are fighting pure terrorism. There's no revolution, no rebels, no opposition," Alani said.

"I don't see this sort of call being acceptable, especially on the regional level," he added. "The Americans might find themselves forced to cooperate under the table with the Syrians. But I don't think Arab countries will accept Syria as a member of the club fighting the Islamic State."

The Abbas regime's warnings about the Islamic State group ring hollow to many in the opposition, who have watched Damascus turn a blind eye to the militants' expansion in Syria for more than a year. Many even accuse the government of facilitating the group's rise at the expense of more mainstream rebel factions.

The breakaway al-Qaida group is the most powerful faction fighting Assad's forces, which means a U.S. campaign to weaken the Islamic State extremists could actually strengthen a leader the White House has sought to push from office. Obama could try to counteract that awkward dynamic by also targeting Assad's forces, though that could drag the U.S. into the bloody, complex conflict — something he has studiously tried to avoid.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Monday that Obama has not made a decision on whether to take military action inside Syria, but noted that the president has demonstrated his willingness to take military action to protect American citizens.

"That is true without regard to international borders," he said.

Earnest tried to tamp down the notion that strikes against the Islamic State could have the unintended consequence of bolstering the Syrian government, saying: "We're not interested in trying to help the Assad regime." However, he noted that there are "a lot of cross-pressures here in this situation."

Despite al-Moallem's warning against unilateral U.S. airstrikes, there is little the Assad government could do should the U.S. decide to target the Muslim extremists inside Syria.

U.S. officials revealed last week that American special forces had tried to rescue American journalist James Foley in a failed operation in Raqqa in July. Islamic State militants beheaded Foley last week.

Referring to that failed mission, al-Moallem said: "Had there been prior coordination that operation would not have failed."

Still, the minister denounced "in the strongest terms possible" Foley's killing, while also asking: "Has the West ever condemned the massacres by the Islamic State ... against our armed forces or citizens?"

Al-Moallem's news conference came a day after jihadis captured a major military air base in northeastern Syria, eliminating the last government-held outpost in a province otherwise dominated by the Islamic State group. After several failed attempts, Islamic State fighters stormed the Tabqa air base Sunday, killing dozens of troops inside.

Al-Moallem conceded defeat in Tabqa, saying that soldiers were withdrawn to nearby areas, along with their weaponry and warplanes. Videos posted on militant websites Monday showed celebrations in the nearby town of Tabqa, controlled by the Islamic State group, including fighters honking noisily as they drove in cars carrying the group's black-and-white flags.

___

Associated Press writers Zeina Karam in Beirut and Lynn Berry in Moscow contributed to this report.


http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20140825/fbc9eb89-ae37-4870-8017-40d5da384e91
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 25, 2014 - 09:21pm PT
Survival's Buffs won't get that tasking.

Obviously not.

But it soothes my frustration at the evil bastards just to post the picture.






Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 25, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
Yes, but the new cost-conscious Pentagon will be loathe to loose a Tomahawk
on a couple of Toyota pickups with a NSV in the back.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 25, 2014 - 09:56pm PT
T-72's? SWEET! A much better target, como no?
A Tomahawk is still overkill, but if they wanna convoy it then fine! ;-)
Degaine

climber
Aug 26, 2014 - 12:36am PT
bluering wrote:
Yeah, I said 'we', Dingus....


So when are you planning to enlist? Or force your kids (if you have any) to enlist?

I see no "you" in that "we" at all.
neversummer

climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Aug 26, 2014 - 07:41am PT
Or those who half assed served....Hmmmmm
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 26, 2014 - 08:21am PT
We should be staying the f*#k out. All those people there, deserve each other.

That said, what happened to napalm? Those were kinda like the old time mumbly pegs, pointed on each end. Bounce along and lay a nice strip of fire. Perfect for an ISIS convoy.

There's some nervous Muslims now. In case the beheading crowd rolls up in front of their palace. The King of Saud. The Iranians. Let them stew for a while.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 26, 2014 - 08:22am PT
DMT, isn't any citizen allowed to express their opinion?
Thank God we're not at the mercy of only those who served -
I value women's opinions.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 26, 2014 - 08:57am PT
Hey it's good to hear from physicists too (cf: physicians, lol!) that are concerned enough and knowledgeable (probably from the decades of conflict with rel over claims to truth about how the world works) to speak out against the craziness caused by religions and their scriptures when taken literally by whomever - whether thugs or not.

"ISIS is a barbaric reminder: no such thing as a religion of peace, certainly not Islam today nor Judaism or Christianity throughout history."

Lawrence Krauss, physicist
26 August tweet
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 26, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 26, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
Thank God we're not at the mercy of only those who served


I guess. Still, someone who served in the Army, sure wouldn't have left 52 155mm Howitzers lying around. What was the Iraqi Army supposed to do with them? Civilians would never get this.

The IS style, they come into your town, blow up any authority HQ, with a suicide bomb, then overrun the place. Executions follow quickly.

Looks like they don't trust the Western raised jihadists. A whole bunch of them died this w/e. Guessing, too many tweets with photos that give away too much info. So they put them on the tip of the spear

[Click to View YouTube Video]
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 26, 2014 - 06:32pm PT
Killing is the easiest solution to most problems. Men kill over honor. Women kill themselves out of desperation. Children grow up torturing animals.

Clerics settle religious questions with murder. It's just easier that way.

Theological debates are complicated and impossible to settle, but fly the black flags, seize a village, kill the men and force the women to convert to the true faith of the machine gun and the sword and the debate is over.

ISIS is how Islam has been settling questions of theology since the 7th century. Why stop now just because you can order takeout from your smartphone? Westerners are innately fascinated by new technology. For the Middle East, technology is a tool for settling medieval disputes. Twitter is just a way of showing off your latest crop of severed heads. The pickup truck substitutes for a camel.
........

It's best to understand that we are not dealing with a moral code that looks anything like our own. The nastier qualities of human nature, deceit, violence and greed, are practically virtues. Especially if they are directed at the right targets.

There's a reason that Islam was born here. There's a reason that it still thrives here largely in its unaltered form. There is no civilization where the black flags fly.


http://sultanknish.blogspot.co.il/2014/08/where-black-flags-fly.html



"ISIS is a barbaric reminder: no such thing as a religion of peace, certainly not Islam today nor Judaism or Christianity throughout history."

This is a statement born of theological and historical illiteracy.

there have always been barbaric peoples who cloaked their evil in religion, but only Islam has a unique set of rules and justifications in it's foundational writing for this kind of barbarity coupled with a thousand year tradition of slaughter and slavery.



StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 26, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
Ever hear of the Inquisition? Made These guys look like amateurs.
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