Williamson Rock 8/6/14 review - access

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Messages 41 - 58 of total 58 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
rincon

Trad climber
Coarsegold
Aug 7, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
First of all, I can't figure out what the parking quota is supposed to accomplish? Only 30 cars per day...what about the cars for people hiking Mt Williamson, or day hiking on the PCT? There is no shortage of parking spots that is for sure. Currently you can park all along hwy 2 and in the many turn outs. Look forward to a bunch of no parking signs going up.

Can you imagine that many people are going to bother to get an advance reservation just for a quick sport climbing session? I don't think it'd be worth the hassle myself...just to go there and deal with some ranger rick and all the rules...and they're taking away most of the best climbs.
And no restrictions on the PCT, except now you have to poop 100' from the stream, and bury it...not sure why that wasn't already the rule.

Good posts splater!
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 8, 2014 - 07:00am PT
There sure is a lot of speculative grousing going on about this. I'm going to wait and see what actually happens before I complain about it.

I'm surprised at all the negativity. This is good new people. Willi is reopening. Don't like the regulations? Keep climbing wherever you've been climbing for the last 8 years.

Just a guess, but I suspect the pullouts will stay open for parking to facilitate hikers.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2014 - 07:40am PT
I've been working on my letter and I've hit on an idea.

Some land managers just don't know how to deal with rock climbers. Someone qualified needs do extensive research and write a manual for land managers to use in dealing with climbing areas.

IF you have the time to read it, here is my first rough draft of the things they should know when making decisions on what to do:

1) Willamson Rock is not considered a high quality climbing area. It is metamorphic gneiss with a decomposing quality to it. Climbers prefer granite and rock that is stable. Some parts of Williamson Rock have the desirable quality but most does not.

2) There are many options around the region with climbing at Idylwild in the San Jacinto Mtns considered to be the high quality area in summer months. If Williamson Rock is closed, we will go somewhere else. It would be nice if it was open because we like variety.

3) Convenience to access determines popularity. Climbers can tend to be social and group together where access is easy. When this happens, land managers may experience the need to manage. Williamson Rock is close to the road and the Short Trail, built by climbers, provided quick access. If that trail is closed and only the Long Trail is allowed for access, this will reduce the number of climbers. Very few climbers would consider walking all the way from the parking lot at Krakta Ridge. They would simply choose to go some where else.

4) A climbing area can become popular for a period of time. But then the popularity goes away, almost always. The rise in popularity can usually be traced to one person or a small group of persons who put up new routes. Media promotion can cause this or the publication of a guide book. When an area gets too crowded, many climbers choose to go elsewhere. Thus popularity can hit a critical mass where people have to wait to get on climbs, at which point decline begins. One way to manage and over abundance of climbers in an area is to do nothing and the matter will sort out with a natural decline in popularity.

5) Climbers like variety. They donít like to do the same old climbs over and over. The average climber might visit a place like Mt Williamson once or just a few times a year.

6) Climbers will not pay a special fee to climb on public lands. There are many reasons for this. The proposed fee system in the current plan is doomed to failure. It is likely there would be an organized boycott so any personnel or infrastructure would go to waste. An EIA that does not include a survey of this would be incomplete.

7) In the past Williamson Rock may have achieved a level of popularity with Rock Climbers that caused an overwhelming amount of traffic and problems for land managers. This is likely never to happen again since this boom was driven by new route development. Land managers at Joshua Tree National Park have successfully implemented new route bans to persevere natural resources and control overcrowding in sensitive areas.


IF you do choose to read all of this I welcome suggestions. Feel free to take from this and make it our own.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 8, 2014 - 07:48am PT
They would simply choose to go some where else.

Isn't that the point? Then the 'land managers' can stay in their cushy offices in the Taj Mahal,
which they are so richly deserve according to some.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 8, 2014 - 08:04am PT
Regarding the frogs.

The San Gabriels are full of countless canyons and streams which are difficult, often nearly impossible to get to. Even John Muir commented on how inaccessible these mountains are. But the USFS is using a study of a short stretch of a roadside stream to determine the health of this species. Seems like a stretch to me.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 8, 2014 - 11:28am PT
Is the permit thing on a daily basis or do you apply for a permit for the whole "season" (sorry I didn't have time to read the links yet)?

I see people saying over and over, that the "fee" is for climbing. It is not. It is for reserving a permit to access the area.

If you think this is a slippery slope, you are decades late. Think Whitney, Think Rainier, think Half-Dome. Think permits for backpacking.

You will pay the same fee as the person who gets a permit to go have a pic-a-nic lunch down at the rock. The fee is not for climbing, and saying so simply means that your comments will otherwise be dismissed.

HOWEVER, the suggestion above, is interesting. They have such a system on Rainier, where you can get a 1 week permit, or a season permit.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 8, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
No fee-based access to USFS land!

Tell a friend! (And your congressional representative!)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 8, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
Another regressive tax on the working class.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 9, 2014 - 09:13am PT
in 1994 one of those fuking yellow frogs bit me on my leg

you've got six legs?
certainly suggests the hypothesis you love flying around sh#t...

as for user fees, ask your 'Gunks climbing friends about that... fact of life there.

Toula's Rock 'n' Road gives Williamson three stars (the same number as Pinnacles... JTree gets four stars, as did Yosemite, Tuolumne...)

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 9, 2014 - 09:18am PT
this is not new, either... use fees were introduced starting in 2004 (at least) and discussed in the forum... probably not many of you were posting then

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=48006

locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Aug 9, 2014 - 09:21am PT


Credit: locker
...





sowr

Trad climber
CA
Aug 9, 2014 - 10:45am PT
Thanks for posting Chris. I think any change of state would be beneficial, not only to climbing but would perhaps alleviate pressure on other local crags - Holcomb comes to mind.

I think we need to prove that we can be worked with, and that we are cooperative as a community. This angry young man stuff seems cool but it's going to bite us. We need to network and form relationships with the authorities.

I think the notion that a limited opening of Williamson to climbing would reduce crowds at other crags might be used as one of your points.

Good idea to use only the long trail.

It should be up to us to help educate visitors to the crag. This is a critical point, as a lot of climbers are going to be coming straight from the gym.

I'm happy to help in writing things up etc.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Aug 9, 2014 - 11:09pm PT
Spider Savage wrote
>>I've been working on my letter.. and I've hit on an idea.
IF you have the time to read it, here is my first rough draft of the things they should know when making decisions on what to do:

>> 1) Williamson Rock is not considered a high quality climbing area.

Disagree. Lots of climbers like it.

>> 2) There are many options around the region with climbing at Idyllwild.

Disagree. There are actually limited options in hot summer. Williamson is the only big summer crag in the entire ANF.

>> 3) ...Very few climbers would consider walking all the way from the parking lot at Krakta Ridge.
>> 4) A climbing area can become popular for a period of time. But then the popularity goes away, almost always. The rise in popularity can usually be traced to one person or a small group of persons who put up new routes.

Disagree. If it were reopened, it would again become popular.

>> 5) Climbers like variety. They donít like to do the same old climbs over and over. The average climber might visit a place like Mt Williamson once or just a few times a year.

Disagree. Lots of climbers used to and would again go a lot more than that. There is no such thing as an average climber.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 9, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
I think we need to prove that we can be worked with, and that we are cooperative as a community. This angry young man stuff seems cool but it's going to bite us. We need to network and form relationships with the authorities.

Bingo.

If we are good stewards, and demonstrate good ethics, then things can change.

Actually working to build that trail (in the right way) would do a lot to help.

The forest is looking at spending a LOT of scarce money to build infrastructure just for climbers.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2014 - 08:59am PT
SOWR - Yep, Holcomb is the new popular summer area, as per my "new area" theory.

Splatter - Good. Need more people to chime in and bash my write up with their wisdom. It's how we get places.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 11, 2014 - 04:41pm PT


The Center for Biological Diversity controls the Federal government.
overwatch

climber
Aug 11, 2014 - 05:16pm PT
Try the Black Tower area if you want to beat the crowds and the heat. You will need gear though
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Sep 22, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
Climbing may be allowed at Williamson in 2016.
On a very restricted basis.
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