Tahquitz Death

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 41 - 60 of total 81 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 12:17am PT

I am sorry to hear of this fatal accident... my first climbs were at Tahquitz, but that was quite some time ago and I don't recall much detail, and most certainly never climbed Sahara Terror. And I never knew the victim.

We all travel in a vertical world where the steepness compels things to fall. The boulders we play on around the base, the scree and talus we all walk on during our approaches and descents all are evidence of this. This all happens on a mammoth scale, but over a times so much longer than our lives and even of many generations of lives that we hardly notice it. Massive rock fall can happen and not even be noticed, the landscape altered, but looking so much like all the other places nearby. Unless we have some particular familiarity with the specific landscape we would have difficulty describing what has changed.

And in this moving landscape we seek our adventures. Over decades of climbing I've had many close calls from rock fall, fortunately resulting in no more than a bad bruise, and a thoughtful pause to contemplate what could have been.

And plenty of loose blocks have been pulled on, and many of those trundled as a consideration of other climbers who might venture those ways. But the nature of rock is to erode and fall off those cliffs, inexorably, until there are no more cliffs for it to fall off of, until the valleys are filled up.

We cannot escape that force, we can be lucky, we have been lucky. But every once and while one of us is unlucky. And it is a tragedy, everyone of us feel that it could very likely have been us.

Our decisions to climb a particular climb represents our choice, and we all know the risks. This horrible story will be told, and future climbers will be much more careful choosing that climb, at least for a while. Some of us might go up and clean the loose rock off the cliff there, what rock we find to be loose, but there is plenty more of it, so that, too, will only last a while.

Being careful and choosing well is something we can all do, but we have to accept the fact that while we can behave in a way to reduce our risk, there is no way we can eliminate those risks, unless we just stop going to those places we are so drawn to.

My heart felt condolences go out to the friends and family of climber and to the community of Tahquitz climbers.

phylp

Trad climber

Millbrae, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 12:57am PT

My most sincere condolences to Bryan's family and friend's. This kind of accident makes us all feel sick.

karen roseme

Mountain climber

Bishop

Jul 14, 2014 - 06:48am PT

So sorry to hear about this tragedy. Bryan sounds like such a great guy.
I'm glad he got to finish his book.

dirt claud

Social climber

san diego,ca

Jul 14, 2014 - 07:12am PT

Very sorry for your loss SteveP. Sounds like he was a great friend and human being. Condolences to family and friends.

Fogarty

climber

BITD

Jul 14, 2014 - 07:30am PT

Peace to Brian's family and friends. Another tragic event, wife children and friends missing a loved one. Tragic deaths always hits me hard, be carefully out there my friends.

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Jul 14, 2014 - 07:42am PT

This is such terrible news. I'm so sorry for the friends and family.
Thank you for giving us some insight to who Bryan was. He has a kind face.

Tahquitz, has always held an ominous vibe for me. There's just something dark and serious about it. The winter loosens new rock every year. Route finding is often convoluted. Accident reports are common. I've just never been able to love the place.

My first trip there, over decade ago, we climbed Sahara Terror. My partner chose the route. I was familiar with the former fatality associated with it but figured it must have cleaned up with all the traffic.

It was a bad choice. I couldn't relax, I was nervous all day and couldn't enjoy the climbing. The ghost of that girl followed me up the entire way. When we got to that spot above the dogleg pitch...I looked up at that rock hanging in that section and felt a pit in my stomach. A short argument ensued, he saying so many people have climbed over it, it must be OK. I won out and convinced him to lead up the the left side to get around it. We were slow. We got off route in the upper pitches and had a nerve-wracking finish in the twilight. My first and last up that particular climb.

Stay safe friends. Hug your loved ones.

RIP Bryan.

Gary

Social climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Jul 14, 2014 - 08:23am PT

Rockfall is the soundtrack of Tahquitz. The north side in particular seems really loose. Except for White Maiden, I've only done one route over there. That was with Batten, and this one pitch was ultra-scary, nothing but rubble, had to climb on tiptoes trying to avoid touching just about everything.

RIP Bryan.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Jul 14, 2014 - 08:33am PT

Tragic event.

SteveP thank you for telling the tale, it’s better to know than to speculate.

I offer my sincere condolences to all of Bryans family and friends.

Guy Keesee

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Jul 14, 2014 - 08:33am PT

Jstan and others raise the question, what should be done? This flake had been known a long time. No one can clean them all off or certify a cliff safe, but there's precedent for carefully trundling some of the worst.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 09:04am PT

Wouldn't budge

I'm not trying to start something negative or impugn the goodness of the deceased but there is
something to be said for learning the ways of the mountains in the chossy environs of the
Cascades or Rockies. If a block scares me I won't even touch it, if possible, let alone try to
trundle it - too many ways that can go badly for you or someone you don't know. Usually a
soft tap will tell one all they need to know, but that won't do for a big block as the tap will only
confirm it's mass, not how well it is ensconced.

robd

Trad climber

Riverside, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 10:12am PT

I wrote the comment of warning on the Mountain Project page. This route was always talked about as being a game of Jenga nearly finished. After climbing it the first time I didn't feel it was THAT bad. The conditions at the time were certainly manageable. My views on the reputation of the route were changed the third time I climbed the route and saw this block. I feel horrible that block claimed Bryan's life. My heartfelt condolences to his wife and daughter as well as his friends.

I keep thinking about what I could have done differently to address this hazard and others like it in the future. I am not talking about every little hazard or potentially hazardous condition on the rock. I am talking about "death blocks" with hair triggers like the one in this case.

I am not confident that trundling was the answer in this case as the fall line was very unclean. An uncontrolled removal of this block could have created a domino effect making lower sections of the rock just as hazardous or even more hazardous than the initial condition.

Could we "close" the route or post a warning at the base? I feel this is opening a can of compressed backlash. What are the legal ramifications in a sue happy society? Would the sign be taken down similar to a bolt deemed unacceptable being chopped?

A controlled removal of such hazards could be done. The logistics of such an operation would be beyond my comfort level. Not to mention the possible liability. What if something went wrong and someone got hurt?

I am pained by Bryan's death and by knowing his wife will never again see her husband and his daughter will never again hear her father's voice. I am especially pained because I was aware of the situation and only posted a warning when there must be more I could have done.

Steve P

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 10:13am PT

Just wanted to share a few more pics of my dear friend, Bryan. He kept the picture off him on Sail Away as wallpaper for his phone. Another close friend shared a pic of him with his hand on Bryan's shoulder during a half marathon and said, "He was always there when you needed him and always gave more than he took."

Pie

Trad climber

So-Cal

Jul 14, 2014 - 11:01am PT

Terrible tragedy...may Brian's wife and daughter find peace one day.

Guernica

climber

dark places

Jul 14, 2014 - 11:52am PT

Damn it, what a sweet soul. Thanks for sharing those pics. Biggest possible love to those who are hurting terribly right now, and warmest smiles for your spirit's continuing journey, Bryan.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Jul 14, 2014 - 01:25pm PT

Another thanks to Steve P for reminding of us the human side of this tragedy. Too often it is too easy to write off these events like these, or even blame the victim. Sometimes it's important to stop and reflect on the loss, rather than the facts giving rise to it. It reminds me of a John Donne poem my high school English teacher forced the class to memorize:

"any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind,
and therefore never send to know
for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee."

greiswig

Trad climber

Cornelius, OR

Jul 14, 2014 - 01:32pm PT

All,

This is my first post to ST. I haven't climbed in a number of years, actually. I'm posting here because Bryan was one of my best friends from junior high school on through high school. We kept in touch after that, but not as much as I would have liked; we talked shop about climbing last year at our High School reunion and mused over the possibility of getting together to do something up at Smith Rocks here in Oregon. Or if I flew down there at Tahquitz, which he dearly loved. We also shared an appreciation for Ed Abbey.

It strikes me as a little cheesy to post here like this, but after reading this whole thread, I'm reminded of one of the things I loved about climbing: the tight community. People pushing themselves to personal limits, but doing it together...there is something unique about what that does to your relationships. I'm reading through all the condolences here with the knowledge that they are true and heartfelt. Thank you for that. And I extend the same to all of you who knew him, and to his family.

And I share in thanking the rescuers: I've done a bit of technical SAR work, and it is hard, risky, and usually you're not even insured if anything should happen to you. So thank you for risking your necks.

That looks like a pretty, relaxing climb. From what I read here, you are all doing your best to notify people of known dangers on routes. I don't know what else you could do. This is a risky sport, and all participants know it. I am comforted (slightly) by the belief that he would much rather have gone this way than to die of some lingering disease or in his car in an intersection. He liked purpose.

Bryan will be sorely missed. Stay safe, all.