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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Sep 19, 2017 - 09:53am PT
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Had the opportunity to break bread with a group this past weekend that included a recently retired Cal Fire Battalion Chief and some current USFS guys.
The subject of fires naturally came up as the wine flowed with two distinct viewpoints made by these people.
It boiled down to Suppresion versus Management.
Cal Fires position was one of suppresion...fight the fire and put out the fire to save persons, property and resources.
USFS took the argument for allowing open tracts to burn so that afterwards they could open these burned areas to logging and resource acquisition. You can see this process underway along Minarets Road post French Fire.
Putting out the fire was not their primary focus as it was for Cal Fire.What was of import was revenue from limited logging and opening of mining claims. It was pretty much looked at as a legal sidestep to environmental controls.
As the night progressed, it became quite heated between the two groups on which approach was best. As a remote cabin owner...I leaned to the Cal Fire side for purely selfish reasons.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 19, 2017 - 10:14am PT
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Ricky, I think the 800 pound gorilla in the USFS 'thinking' is a sub-conscious propensity to let it burn so they can sit in their offices without being bothered by those pesky forests. About 5 years ago the Angeles NF built a $14 million Taj Mahal HQ near me. In 25 years I can honestly say I've never seen a ranger on the ground in the Angeles NF.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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How many years had the Cal Fire BC been retired. A big reason we are seeing these huge fires is the old tactic of jump on it and put it out ASAP. This as you know has led to unnatural growth in our forests. I just retired this year after 30 years in the fire service in Los Angeles and our tactics changed from putting out fires ASAP to let it burn as much as possible unless it endangers life or property. I thought that was Cal Fires latest approach also.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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The two largest fires were the Atlas Peak fire near the city of Napa, which was burning more than 10,000 acres as of 6:45 a.m., and the Tubbs fire, spreading from Calistoga to Santa Rosa in Sonoma County, according to Napa County spokeswoman Kristi Jourdan. That fire was at 20,000 acres, according to the Santa Rosa Fire Department.
Cal Fire is keeping track of three other fires in Napa, Sonoma and Lake counties, said spokesman Will Powers. The Adobe fire in Sonoma County is affecting Glen Ellen and Kenwood, the Patrick fire is hitting Napa, and the Sulfur Fire in Lake County is threatening Clearlake, he said.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-napa-fires-20171009-story.html
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Not that it is important, but I can't find out what caused the fires. Was it downed powerlines(from the wind)?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, all... THANK you for the updates...
i had just heard of some of this, from my sister, when she took my
boys to the airport, at about 4 in the morning, :O
note, to 10b4me:
yes, i would wonder, too, if it was downed power lines???
prayers for all concerned... :(
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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I hear now that Orange and Riverside County in So Cal have several fires and evacuations........
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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I hear now that Orange and Riverside County in So Cal have several fires and evacuations........
In the OC, Anaheim Hills is on fire.
Anyway, I still would not be surprised to hear of arson in a couple of instances however the major fires are quite a distance apart.
I stand by what I've heard, and read. Ninety-five percent of all fires are started(purposely, or accidentally) by humans.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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:-( damn I wish I was a superhero...this is f*#king crazy...you people BE SAFE...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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On top of all the fires this is today's earthquake map!
It's been really quiet lately so this is one strange coincidence.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 10, 2017 - 05:16pm PT
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hey there say, reilly... oh my... :O
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 10, 2017 - 09:10pm PT
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Fritz wrote:
To sum up my thoughts, you are out of touch with Northern Rockies Forest Service fire management policies.
Well, inasmuch as each forest unit is managed on it's own, that would not surprise me.
However, you are speaking of the OUTCOME, I am speaking of the PROCESS. My experience with 5 Wilderness Managers on the Sierra NF, is that each of them carries a different bias into the decision making. And at least on this forest, there IS a decision-making process that is followed, not a rote policy that is automatically enacted, except when buildings/people/heritage is threatened.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 10, 2017 - 10:29pm PT
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Ken M is slowly, responding to my comments on wilderness fire fighting policies in the Northern Rockies, back on Sept. 7th.
Re the current fires in California, those affected have my best hopes & sympathies, & I have nothing but respect for the brave people fighting those fires.
Best wishes for all involved in this disaster.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Oct 11, 2017 - 12:17pm PT
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Not that it is important, but I can't find out what caused the fires. Was it downed powerlines(from the wind)?
from http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Thousands-more-evacuated-as-Wine-Country-blazes-12269691.php
........The cause of the fires have not been determined, but there were reports that strong winds had knocked down numerous power lines between 9:20 p.m. and 10 p.m. on Sunday night, about the time the fires broke out in Napa and Sonoma counties.
“We are investigating a number of potential causes, including whether reports of power lines falling down and electrical transformers exploding Sunday night may have caused some of the wildfires in the region,” said Janet Upton, deputy director of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, also known as Cal Fire..........
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Oct 12, 2017 - 10:43am PT
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I'm in Santa Rosa in the rincon valley area. Our neighborhood is ok. Another sketchy night last night but the winds didn't materalize and a backburn in the Annadel / brush creek area worked well yesterday. Several friends have lost homes.
Napa fires seem out of control still.
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