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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 22, 2006 - 01:20am PT
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When I was living with Peter and his mom Melody in Berekeley,
The Bird came by for a couple days; he had a few things going, primarily working concrete.
He was proud to say his breakfast each morning before working the hard labor consisted of a sugar donut and two Schlitz talls.
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john hansen
climber
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Aug 22, 2006 - 01:23am PT
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I own a collection of the AAJ back to 1970 and I am amazed at the amount of stories that have "and tragedy" tacked on the end.
The japanese, koreans, and russians,all seem to take death as a given. The poles don't even consider thier climb a sucess unless a couple of them die or lose didgets. From the volcanoes of South America to Denali to minor and major mountians in the himalaya, people keep falling to thier death's .
Every one of them thought they had 'Mental Toughness"
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 22, 2006 - 01:38am PT
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If Black Birdie Super Kutsie Ultra Lass
Is in fact single,
And I think this is so,
It's gotta be one ah the greatest of mysteries.
Prolly, She's just smart, picky and rightly bright.
I'd bet money she can send a modest offwidth Jay.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Aug 22, 2006 - 02:21am PT
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Hope springs eternal.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 22, 2006 - 11:16am PT
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I just spent a night volunteering at the 76-mile aid station at the Leadville Trail 100, one of those twisted ultramarathon affairs. In this instance, folks run, or walk, a hundred mountain miles, and they're given 30 hours to do it. Some people- most of them older-- have done this race, and others like it, many times.
Endurance sports demand their own brand of toughness that's accessible to just about anyone in reasonable shape-- no special talents required (unlike climbing), and relatively inexpensive (unlike transoceanic sailing, dogsledding across Antarctica, etc.). I am constantly impressed by the determination of these everyday athletes.
Once in a while, nearing the end of a big day in the mountains, I find myself hiking out in the dark, exhausted, and I'm maybe on mile 12 or so for the day. At times like these I try and imagine what it would be like to be on mile 85, in the dark, exhausted.
You couldn't pay me enough to do that sh#t.
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Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
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Aug 22, 2006 - 11:35am PT
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I’ll tell you what’s tough. Being nailed to a tree to die, not deserving it, keeping your mouth shut, resisting all temptations to defend yourself, being obedient to the cause of love, all the while praying for those who made false accusations against you and who beat you and then hung you because of it. Now that’s TOUGH!
Other than that, toughest man I ever met was my dad.
Depending on the goal I think there comes a point where what we might call mental toughness might really be an imbalance of priorities. Seeking to shake hands with death and live to tell the tail does not imply tough.
Golsen, no problem with your critique. I was trying to separate mental toughness with competitiveness, if I could, and wondering if I’m splitting hairs. Indeed MJ was a joy to watch… best player I ever saw. It was his drive for competition that made him the best. It was his discipline (Jerry Rice comes to mind too). But how much of that hard work and attitude was because he knew he could execute? I think if he didn’t have all the talent in the world and the discipline to refine what wasn't perfect I doubt he would’ve had the confidence to pull it off. Part of his “toughness” was supported by that confidence. If you’re 100% sure you can execute it’s easier to simply get down to business. But let’s say you don’t have the excessive talent, and you don’t have the confidence, what does it take? Is it even possible to execute at that level? Honestly I don’t know. I tend to think not. I mean you do have to believe in yourself at some point, right? But how much confidence does one need? Maybe just a little. But a lot goes further.
Did Salathe and Nelson think they would actually make it up Lost Arrow Chimney five days out of the valley? Or did they build faith as the adventure went higher and higher? Word is that Salathe received a vision from an angel in a dream. Was that faith? Was that tough?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2006 - 01:10pm PT
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Jay wrote
"I’ll tell you what’s tough. Being nailed to a tree to die, not deserving it, keeping your mouth shut, resisting all temptations to defend yourself, being obedient to the cause of love, all the while praying for those who made false accusations against you and who beat you and then hung you because of it. Now that’s TOUGH!"
That's cake if you KNOW it's your ticket to the best imaginable world, and it was supposedly your plan to do it from the start. The real sacrifice was coming to this inhospitable planet and living 33 years in a pile of meat!
But, not to hijack the thread. Toughness starts when talent and training leave off, JC doesn't qualify.
Peace
Karl
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Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
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Aug 22, 2006 - 01:29pm PT
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Yeah I know he knew what was happening but if it was such a piece of cake why in the world did he say this, not once, not twice but three times!? "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
That doesn't sound like he was looking forward to it now does it? It was the one time in his life that The Father took his eyes off of him. The prospect of that to us seems normal, but to him it was agonizing.
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blackbird
Trad climber
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Aug 22, 2006 - 03:09pm PT
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Jaybro & Tarbousier: I know nothing I plead the 5th it wasn't me I didn't do it AND I don't know how to climb or use those pretty shiny clippy things!!!
Anyway, Jaybro, aren't you supposed to be getting in touch with me regarding beta for steep southern routes??? Weather's changing, Dearie, and T-Wall season rapidly draws neigh... Plan your trip and let me know!
Tar, you're too good to me; yet another ego boost!! And for the record, hate to tell ya but methinks youthinks correctly.
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Michelle
Ice climber
I want a man with man-sized toys.
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Aug 22, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
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klaussypoo
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Teth
climber
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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Aug 22, 2006 - 03:41pm PT
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Well, I always thought my Great Grandfather was tough. He once split his foot open with an axe, came home, stitched it up himself, put his boot back on and went back out to cut the rest of the firewood. Oh, and then there was the time he caught lock-jaw. He knocked a tooth out so that he could feed himself through a straw, then carved wooden wedges which he used to pry his jaws apart over the course of two weeks. Then in WW1 there was Vimi Ridge, and OH yeah, he was the guy at Yeeps (sp?) who told the guys to piss in their handkerchiefs to make make-shif gas masks so that enough guys survived the gas attack to man the machine guns and repel the Germans. Then later in the war he was carrying two 75 pound artillery shells (he was only supposed to carry one, but Clevelands like to show off) while crossing a plank over a trench when an explosion knocked him off the plank and he cut his gut open on shrapnel. He woke up in the dead pile and had to drag himself with one hand to the medical centre while holding his guts in with the other hand.
Unfortunately he never took up climbing, so he probably does not qualify on this thread, so I will go with Bridwell due to WBraun’s story, although maybe that is just regular toughness rather than mental toughness? Maybe mental toughness is about forcing yourself to make rational decisions while under extreme stress.
Teth Cleveland
[Edit]
Rereading my post it sounds like a troll, but it is not. My great grandfather really did all those things. The Bridwell story reminded me of my great grandfather splitting his foot with the axe and as I wrote that I just kept remembering more stories about him. I wish I could have met him, but he died the year I was born.
[/Edit]
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Aug 22, 2006 - 05:23pm PT
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sory fat, its us for coming back even kow we might fid yo here (lol). just kddin
Good story teth. I think those guys who perform in an environment out of their control are way tougher then climbers. Climbers are just not to bright, they actually put themselves in life or death situations by choice...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Aug 22, 2006 - 06:23pm PT
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Great tale Teth, are you related to Pete Cleveland of CMC fame?
BBird, I forgot! Keep it wide, wild, and steep; hope I too can "send a modest offwidth," should the need arise. Looking at a roadworthy rig as I speak (anybody hear anything good, or bad, about the, naturally aspirated, 2.3 litre Saab powerplant?)
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Aug 22, 2006 - 08:17pm PT
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Jaybro - Blackbird is a dream come true - single, hard core climber, special ed educator, and smart. She has a great smile to go with her great abs. Can't believe you've not made it to Tennessee with her yet!
p.s. I want to go too!
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer space
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Aug 22, 2006 - 08:26pm PT
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Never been to T Wall, but eager to go.
Three days at Red River Gorge. Simply wonderful. Ever been there, Crimpy?
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Aug 22, 2006 - 08:47pm PT
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jay, "I was trying to separate mental toughness with competitiveness, if I could, and wondering if I’m splitting hairs. Indeed MJ was a joy to watch… best player I ever saw. It was his drive for competition that made him the best. It was his discipline (Jerry Rice comes to mind too). But how much of that hard work and attitude was because he knew he could execute? I think if he didn’t have all the talent in the world and the discipline to refine what wasn't perfect I doubt he would’ve had the confidence to pull it off. Part of his “toughness” was supported by that confidence. If you’re 100% sure you can execute it’s easier to simply get down to business. But let’s say you don’t have the excessive talent, and you don’t have the confidence, what does it take? Is it even possible to execute at that level? Honestly I don’t know. I tend to think not. I mean you do have to believe in yourself at some point, right? But how much confidence does one need? Maybe just a little. But a lot goes further."
This could probably use its own thread. Confidence, mental discipling, toughness. All interrelated, mostly mental. The confidence thing is particularly pertinent to climbing and appropriate to all levels of climbers. It can also be trained to a certain degree. about 15 years ago I read "The Mental Athlete" which had a lot of good techniques to help out and are related to this but not neceesarily to toughness.
I view toughness as something required after everything else has been used up. Of course if you are very mentally disciplined and confident, then perhaps you may not need the toughness as soon as the next guy.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 22, 2006 - 09:58pm PT
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"Gotta learn to live with what you can't rise above."
 The Boss
both require mental tuffness.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 22, 2006 - 10:09pm PT
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Fergit' Mental Toughness;
Ferget the naturally aspirated anything Jay,
G-Get a bus ticket and fly fly away.
If I were single, Ida' already left the house without lacing my shoes and busted both shins aginst' the doorway making the turn for the horizon just to git out to sweet Tennessee for a cup a coffee with the Black Bird-a-Lee...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Aug 22, 2006 - 10:53pm PT
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This should be over on the Troll/Art thread; sometimes you don't know what doors you're opening. WWAH*D?
The first three day plan-er?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 23, 2006 - 01:20am PT
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Yer right Jay,
But that thread is shredding what's left of my mental toughness.
Sorry BB, that last flurry was a bit over the top, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it all the same.
'Member, It's the thought that counts, even if the cadence is a bit rich..
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