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Scott Patterson
Mountain climber
Craig
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May 14, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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Too bad Everest hasn't seen any climbers for a number of years....they're usually better at cleaning up after themselves.
Uh, no. The Western guides at least have done a fairly good job of cleaning up the place, especially lower down the mountain.
Even between our visits in 2001 vs 2012, there was a big difference in the amount of trash at the basecamps for the popular mountains.
Although places like South Col still have a bunch of trash (it's really expensive to get down), and likely will for a long time, the popular mountains are overall cleaner than they were a decade or two ago.
Read Krakauer's 1996 description of Gorak Shep, for example. He describes it as a an open sewer full of trash and human waste. It's not like that anymore, and is in fact a much cleaner and pleasant place. In addition to campsites and lot of popular campsites on the approach routes, the basecamps themselves, on the high mountains many of the popular campsites have been cleaned up to where they are better than they used to be. Still, trash does still exist and will likely be there for a long time.
As far as the "climbers" cleaning up after themselves, this has not been true in the Himalaya. Have you ever read the writings of Joe Tasker or Peter Boardman's books, for example?
Also, take a look at the mountains which haven't been guided. The Nanda Devi Sanctuary, for example, is still recovering (and closed so it can recover) from the big expeditions between 1936 and 1982. The only ones to blame for that are the "real" climbers since it has never been guided.
Nanda Devi (for example) has only been climbed 12 times (all by "real" climbers) and in 1993 (the last time anyone was legally allowed to enter), well over 2000 lbs of trash were removed from the former basecamp. The approximate weight of trash left behind was 200 lbs of trash for every climb, and this does include all the trash that was buried.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 14, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
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big expeditions between 1936 and 1982. The only ones to blame for that are the "real" climbers. There has been an improvement in "real climber" ethics worldwide since the 90s. Two neighbors of mine, both "real climbers" were on the Everest cleanup in I think '95. Even climbers' ethics can evolve. Tourist climbers who are buying their way, maybe not so much.
We still have a long way to go, especially for human waste.
You're invited to come to Yosemite Facelift in September. See the Facelift thread. Or maybe you already plan to.
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Scott Patterson
Mountain climber
Craig
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May 14, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
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There has been an improvement in "real climber" ethics worldwide since the 90s.
I agree (though guiding companies have improved their ethics as well). See the comment I was responding to though:
Too bad Everest hasn't seen any climbers for a number of years....they're usually better at cleaning up after themselves.
It seems to be implied that the "climbers" that haven't visited in a number of years were better at cleaning up after themselves.
Now days, climbers (including guiding companies) overall are better at cleaning up their trash (though improvements can be made, especially with increased traffic).
Anyway, here's some good news:
http://www.thestar.com.my/Travel/Asia/2014/05/08/Forced-Everest-cleanup/
From now on all climbers have to bring back an additional 8 kgs not including all their own garbage.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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May 14, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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Göran Kropp, a Swedish adventurer, set out from Stockholm, Sweden on a Crescent Ultima bicycle and traveled 5 months and 8,000 miles carrying 240 lbs. of gear with him. He ascended Mt. Everest in May 1996, unassisted and without the use of supplemental oxygen. He then returned to Stockholm on his bicycle. The entire trip took one year.
Perhaps the only "real" climb of Everest ever?
TY
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Wildincognito
climber
Eastside
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May 14, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
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Scott Patterson said (before he deleted it)-
It depends on how you define "unassisted". He still did use the ladders and fixed lines placed by others. I seem to remember in his book that he pioneered his own route up the icefall to avoid the ladders and possible criticism.
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steve shea
climber
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May 14, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
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Yes. It was mesmerising as well. We had just pulled into base at upper Rongbuk. We knew they were there but not what the plan was. Their small camp was just up the glacier. Then during the night of the ascent we stayed up almost the whole time watching the headlamp glow moving up. It was surreal.
But even more impressive was their extremely fast glissade of the Hornbein. You could tell they had good snow skills and were probably good skiers as well. We went over and met them at their BC that afternoon. They hardly seemed phased, not spent and great shape. We were all stunned at what we had witnessed. They were magnanimous with their time and very humble.
Was with Dave Cheesemond on that trip to the North Ridge btw. Fellow canuck eh.
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Scott Patterson
Mountain climber
Craig
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May 14, 2014 - 02:32pm PT
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I seem to remember in his book that he pioneered his own route up the icefall to avoid the ladders and possible criticism.
I was under the impression that he used a fixed rope on the Hillary Step and on the descent but I deleted my post in case it was in error. Apologies if post was in error.
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raymond phule
climber
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May 14, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
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I seem to remember in his book that he pioneered his own route up the icefall to avoid the ladders and possible criticism.
But he descended down the standard ice fall route on that trip (If I understood the book correctly) and I believe that he used it an his other ascends above base camp.
I doubt that he used many fixed ropes when he ascended and I don't believe that the route was close to having fixed ropes at that time. I believe that he did use fixed ropes and help when being in bad shape down from the south col.
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steve shea
climber
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May 14, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
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I have to agree with Scott here. We found trash on the North side as well. From the earliest attempts to the Chinese effort. Not the mess of the south side but on its way.
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raymond phule
climber
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May 14, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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I was under the impression that he used a fixed rope on the Hillary Step, but I deleted my post in case it was in error.
He writes that he soloed it on the way up. On the way down he actually fall... get his feet tangled in the ropes and hangs upside-down...
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 14, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
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He writes that he soloed it on the way up. On the way down he actually fall... get his feet tangled in the ropes and hangs upside-down...
Tripped by a hazardous fixed line, solo climber almost dies!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
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Guy above-
What is your source for this latest info? I can't find it in any of mine.
Thanks!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
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My Italian is nonexistent but by combining French and Spanish to try to decipher it, I still couldn't find any source for their flights being legal from the Nepalese side? Then again, the Nepalese press has dropped the matter, so perhaps an accomodation was made?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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May 17, 2014 - 06:48am PT
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And driving into Yosemite to within just a few feet of the base of the climb is equally poor style.
You walk to Yosemite i take it??
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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May 17, 2014 - 10:43am PT
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Helicopters! Outrageous! What fool would even consider using a cheating, unethical, helicopter assist to climb a mountain?
Now, if the goal of the helicopter ride is to snowboard down the mountain, then of course it is perfectly acceptable. This is so because the fun factor overwhelms any ethical concerns.
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” Ralph Waldo Emerson
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jstan
climber
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May 17, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
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“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” Ralph Waldo Emerson
Non-foolish consistency can be built upon.- Jstan
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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May 17, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
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It's instructive occasionally to see the rest of that quote:
"...adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
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SuperTopo on the Web
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The pilot did have permission to fly people to C2
Let us know!