Craziness on Everest Southside Continues

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Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Original Post - May 10, 2014 - 01:41am PT
Two women, one American and one Chinese, are going to attempt Everest this season regardless. The American woman has had her gear flown into Camp 2 above the icefall and is climbing alone, and the Chinese woman has hired 7 Sherpas to climb through the icefall with her even though the ladders have been removed. Here's what Alan Arnette had to say:


"This is a season with no end from Nepal. As I reported yesterday, IMG noted the Icefall Doctors were removing the ladders from the Khumbu Icefall and, assumed, the season would finally come to an end. I noted there was one climber attempting Lhotse still there determined to climb with or without ladders.

Cleo Weidlich, made this comment on her Facebook page a few days ago:

This is just to let you know that my climb on the Everest Massif will continue with or without ladders. I have climbed some of the world’s most dangerous mountain WITHOUT them and this mountain is, actually, very tame when I compare it with the likes of Nanga Parbat, Annapurna 1 and Kangchenjunga. I refuse to give in to the pressures of the Everest mafia. I’d like to decide for myself when I have reached my limits. Thanks to ALL of you for all the positive energy; I can feel it..

And today it was reported Cleo did just that by taking a helicopter to Camp 2 in the Western Cwm. The report goes on to say:

American climber Cleonice P Weidlich, who reached Camp 2 from Gorak Shep on a chopper, has apparently done so without taking permission from the ministry of tourism and civil aviation. Ministry’s permission is mandatory to take a chopper to the restricted area above the Base Camp. International operators, including IMG, Himex, AAI, Adventure Consultants, Jagged Globe and Peak Freaks, chartered helicopters to carry Cleo’s climbing equipment and logistics up to Camp 2. Chief at the Lukla airport, Rimji Sherpa, and legal division chief at MoTCA, Ranjan Krishna Aryal, said they were not aware if any such flights were conducted. They said neither Lukla airport nor the ministry were asked for permission for such flights

My opinion is this is a misstatement regarding the commercial companies as the ones mentioned did receive permission to fly into the Western Cwm to remove gear at C1 and C2. I would be very surprised if they knowingly carried gear into the Cwm but nothing surprises any more on Everest.

The reported cost was US$2,000 per person per flight, so a person would spend $4K to get into and out of the Western Cwm. Also, it appears she is climbing alone without Sherpa support.

The second climber mentioned is Chinese Jing Wang trying to set a record for climbing the 7 Summits plus both poles. See these updates from Russell Brice on her project 7+2. She was with Himex on Everest and now appears to have reset her ambitions and will try to climb Everest through the Khumbu Icefall with a team of seven Sherpa:

“Chang, on the other hand, has hired seven local Sherpas and is headed for the Base Camp from Namche Bazaar,” sources told THT, adding that she will leave for Camp 1 in the next five days.

There is still time for these women to climb as the monsoons don’t usually arrive until late May to early June. However, recent reports on Cho Oyu show 100 mph winds on the summit and other reports have heavy snow in the Everest region.The usuall summit window on Everest is around May 21st.

Meanwhile, teams on the North side have mostly retreated to Chinese Base Camp or lower to rest up for an anticipated summit around May 20th.

I don’t know about you but I’m getting whiplash!

Climb On!

Alan

Memories are Everything"
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
May 10, 2014 - 01:43am PT
great time for Ueli to poach Everest without Sherpa interference

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 10, 2014 - 01:46am PT
Damn, helos are cheap in Nepal! Sweet!
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 02:01am PT
great time for Ueli to poach Everest without Sherpa interference

Personally I'm hoping for the women to pull it off.
WBraun

climber
May 10, 2014 - 02:04am PT
Damn.....

The women are hard core and determined.

All the men ran away?

Men are now pussies?

The one woman even gets a helicopter lol.

What a trip ......
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
May 10, 2014 - 10:52am PT
Cleonice P Weidlich said,

This is just to let you know that my climb on the Everest Massif will continue with or without ladders. I have climbed some of the world’s most dangerous mountain WITHOUT them

Ladders? We don't need no stinkin' ladders!

American climber Cleonice P Weidlich, who reached Camp 2 from Gorak Shep on a chopper ...


A helicopter beats a ladder every time.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 10, 2014 - 11:06am PT
A helicopter beats a ladder every time.


No sh#t. I thought I was the only one that noticed.

I don't need ladders!!! (beats chest)

Now where's my chopper?
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 10, 2014 - 11:09am PT
Doesn't seem like Wang Jing is getting much press.

Never heard of her.

But in general adventurers aren't overly admired here as far as I can tell.
overwatch

climber
May 10, 2014 - 11:11am PT
Cornice Widelick, chopper climber.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
May 10, 2014 - 11:19am PT
The chopper woman's ascent is already invalidated by skipping the lower ascent. Is this the new approach strategy to avoid objective hazard?
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 10, 2014 - 11:23am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#357301
WBraun

climber
May 10, 2014 - 11:25am PT
The chopper woman's ascent is already invalidated

I've done El Cap many times to the top by getting into the chopper.

They're all valid chopper ascents ...... :-)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 10, 2014 - 11:26am PT
Heavens......a woman attempting Everest after the LADDERS have been removed! That's not crazieness....that's the way it should be.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 10, 2014 - 11:27am PT
With a chopper?





I think I like the Chinese gal better.
I think this is her Randisi?
Credit: survival
WBraun

climber
May 10, 2014 - 11:32am PT
Yeah with a chopper.

The aid ladders are gone so she used intelligence for the small time window available by getting an aid chopper ...

:-)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 10, 2014 - 11:38am PT
aid chopper, lol
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 10, 2014 - 11:42am PT
Cross contiental connection.....no ladders on Everest, no cables on Half Dome, no bolt ladders on Cerro Torre. Special places....people should put in some honest effort to attain them.
steve shea

climber
May 10, 2014 - 11:50am PT
So chopper girl will wait for Khumbu girl's sherpas to fix Lhotse face or will she go for it sans lines? Is chopper girl solo? No one in support?
WBraun

climber
May 10, 2014 - 11:51am PT
According to time and circumstances people will do what they feel will work for them.

It's not necessarily always correct and the way everyone would like.

But still life goes on like this.

P.S. They wanted me to go to Everest back in the 80's for $500 a day.

I told them I'm a toothpick who'll turn into a popsicle the very first day.

Thus I saved them from any problem to begin with .....

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
May 10, 2014 - 11:58am PT
I've done El Cap many times to the top by getting into the chopper.

They're all valid chopper ascents ...... :-)

You are correct Herr Braun . . . a much more magnanimous man than myself!
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
May 10, 2014 - 12:09pm PT
Credit: drljefe
Betelnut

Mountain climber
So. California
May 10, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
Way to go, Cleo.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 10, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
chopper girl
This is a very bad precedent!

I'll take a chopper ride to Denali Pass thank you very much. But why stop there?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 10, 2014 - 03:22pm PT
Using a chopper is a natural extension of the direction Everest "climbing" has been going for quite some time. The "end justifies the means" paradigm has taken all meaning out of "climbing" Everest. I'll donate a small sum for a chopper pad on the summit.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 10, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
It'll get a little amusing when the time comes to get off the mountain.... and the hell winds up in the shop for a week or two waiting for a part.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
Ha! Leave it to you Bruce, to always think ahead.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 10, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
The reported cost was US$2,000 per person per flight, so a person would spend $4K to get into and out of the Western Cwm.

Sounds like maybe she was just using the chopper to ferry her gear up and came back down with the intent of climbing Khumbu up to her gear.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
May 10, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
That solves part of the problem--helicopter ferries to Camp 2.

Only a matter of time before technology before it's pushed to further camps and eventually the helicopter ride to the summit for a quick photo shoot and the dividing line between tourons and actual climbers will no longer be grey.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 10, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
Could be, but the escalation of the "whatever it takes" mentality has only one logical conclusion. Everest has become among the least important climbing venues on earth but remains, for many, the most important summit. These are people who usually do not have much in the way of climbing skills but they do have the means to avail themselves of whatever aids are made available.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
May 10, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
Well one could declare that the old camp 2 is now Base Camp thus lessening the stigma of not actually "climbing" part of the route. We all know that the "real climbing" starts above base camp... right? Or maybe... I'm missing something? Ha!
nah000

climber
canuckistan
May 11, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
that there are only two parties game to take advantage of the chance of a lifetime [climbing the highest mountain in the world without crowds and with increased adventure] just confirms the conventional wisdom that the vast majority being led up the normal route on everest are neither climbers [by any collectively held definition], nor even adventurers.

and one of the two parties is using helicopters, so there is really only one party with any interest in process and the actual climbing.

all of the rest were just looking for a gold star from teacher.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
According to Stephen Nesstler of Adventure Sports, It seems probable that both women climbers used helicopters to Camp 2.

Then he brings up another interesting issue.


P.S. It remains to be seen whether ascents of Everest and Lhotse from Camp 2 can count as full summit successes. A case for Elizabeth Hawley, the 90-year-old legendary Himalayan chronicler in Kathmandu.


No doubt Elizabeth will have a few pithy comments on the subject!
Stay tuned.



http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.dw.de%2Fadventuresports%2Fend-of-the-season-on-everest-two-women-say-no%2F&lang=en
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 11, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
There won't be a traffic jam at the hillary steps.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2014 - 12:06am PT
The Plot thickens!

Some male climbers seeing the girls take off, are now interested in doing Everest unaided and the Nepalese government has declared Everest still open.

The government is unhappy however, because both women evidently pirated rides on choppers which were given permission to only retrieve equipment from above the ice fall and the Nepalese government is very sensistive about people following protocol. Of course they have egg on their face because the laison officers assigned to the women's permits were no where around to stop them, and the owners of their respective guide agencies, Russel Brice of New Zealand and a Kathmandu man, Murari Sharma, are in a panic that their clients have done something illegal while on permits with their guide agencies. The women I'm sure, are laughing and yelling down the slopes, "catch me if you can". Also no doubt, the chopper pilots are somewhat richer with under the table money for their role in this.

Things used to happen like this in the old days when people snuck around police checkposts to go to forbidden areas and trek and climb without permits, but it hasn't been done for several years now. Between the Maoists chasing the police out of remote checkposts and no lowlanders going above the snow line, Nepal could get really interesting again.



More keen to conquer Everest

RAJAN POKHREL

KATHMANDU: Attempts to climb Mt Everest and Mt Lhotse by two legendary female mountaineers have emboldened other climbers, who have shown interest in scaling the peaks this season itself.

Climbers from Malaysia, China, Peru and Romania have shown interest in scaling the world’s highest peak, officials at the ministry of tourism and civil aviation told THT. “Azim Afif Bin Ishak–led six-member Ever Quest, Malaysia UTM, Everest Exp 2014 and a few others from China, Peru and Romania want to resume climbing.”

Meanwhile, Wang Jing, 40, from China, who is attempting to scale Mt Everest, yesterday flew to Camp 2 from the Base Camp. American climber Cleonice Weidlich, 51, had already flown to Camp 2 from Gorak Shep in her solo bid to scale Mt Lhotse. Both are expected to complete their climbs in the last week of May.

However, their bid to scale the peaks has kicked up a row, as liaison officers assigned by MoTCA for both the climbers — Arjun Shrestha and Laxman Sharma — are in Kathmandu and have no idea what the two women are up to; none of the Sherpas earlier assigned for their expeditions are with them; the agencies that obtained climbing permit for them have no idea about their latest bid; on top of this, the two have flown to Camp 2 on helicopters without taking the ministry’s permission.

“Russell Reginald Brice of the Himalayan Experience (Himex) that got the permit to scale Everest for Jing and others has already approached ministry, raising serious objection over Jing’s move,” sources said.

Murari Sharma, MD at the Everest Parivar, which got the permit for Cleo, is also miffed at her. “We have no idea about Cleo’s latest activities. All other climbers have already been informed about the cancellation of season’s climbing.” Both Brice and Sharma are worried that if the two women succeed in scaling the peaks, the permits for others in their expeditions might become invalid.

MoTCA officials say they will try to settle the disputed issues at the earliest. “We are positive to settle the disputes and also appeal to other climbers to resume climbing if they wish so,” Joint Secretary Madhu Sudan Burlakoti at MoTCA said, hinting that they will be allowed to land at Camp 2 if they wish so.


http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=More+keen+to+conquer+Everest&NewsID=414608#sthash.pvtyLyAK.dpuf
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 12, 2014 - 12:46am PT
This thread has inspired me to start a new biz.
Khumbu Kommute.


photo not found
Missing photo ID#355199


Looking for some venture capitalists to invest.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 12, 2014 - 12:55am PT


Well one could declare that the old camp 2 is now Base Camp thus lessening the stigma of not actually "climbing" part of the route. We all know that the "real climbing" starts above base camp... right? Or maybe... I'm missing something? Ha!

Not any different than the hordes that jug fixed ropes to Heart and then claim the did the Salathe.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
May 12, 2014 - 01:06am PT
Bitches got no RESPECT for the Sherpa People that died fixing the lines for those Ho's, it's all about them. . .Stupid climbers. . .
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 12, 2014 - 01:07am PT

May 11, 2014 - 09:46pm PT
This thread has inspired me to start a new biz.
Khumbu Kommute.



Looking for some venture capitalists to invest.

Wish I still had my old 23 window to use as my investment in Kumbu Kombi Komute.

Same color.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
May 12, 2014 - 01:15am PT
Where is the line?

Who's bothering to walk from Kathmandu?

Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 12, 2014 - 01:16am PT
If it goes pear-shaped for the climbers, then won't the poor locals have to risk-it-all to save them?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2014 - 01:38am PT
I doubt that's going to happen as Cleo has already said some nasty things about the Sherpas on Facebook. As for the Chinese climber Wang Jing, it's not clear if her 7 Sherpas flew to Çamp 2 with her or she also is going alone.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 12, 2014 - 01:46am PT
You said Wang. Huh huh.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2014 - 01:55am PT
??? Wang's a common last name in China ???
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
May 12, 2014 - 02:22am PT
Johnson?
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 12, 2014 - 02:59am PT
Heh heh , you said Johnson. Heh heh. Now I speak some Chinese.
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
May 12, 2014 - 03:54am PT
Thanks for posting this, Jan, I find it fascinating although I hardly know what to think about the helicopter. Does she explain her use of it on facebook?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2014 - 09:09am PT

She arranged for the helicopter ride without a permit so she kept that secret until it was a fait accompli.

I'm sure though, if she lives through this, she'll have plenty to say.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 12, 2014 - 09:33am PT
7 plus 2......So many people now with egos, time, money and bucket lists. Any means is acceptable for them. I doubt she plans to ski to the South Pole....you can fly there for about $30,000.
i doubt that any of them care about the process but I'm sure none of them will have trouble spewing about their "accomplishments" to an adoring an ignorant public.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 12, 2014 - 09:39am PT
If you really wanted to climb the worlds tallest mountain you would start at sea level and walk.

I don't care about her little chopper ride down low. Seems like she did it to make dying a little harder and not the climb a little easier.
steve shea

climber
May 12, 2014 - 10:09am PT
Come on Donini. More, tell it like it is ! I can't add any more except that this adventure athlete garbage, xterra, adventure running group has found a new, well not so new, venue. Everest. Too bad it is a slog and not more difficult. Do you think any of these fools could have done what Loretan or Messner did? Hell no.

I did walk in once. it only adds a week. The biggest problem with the walk is not getting the $hits. Its more rural Nepal and not like the Jellystone Park aspect of Lukla, Namche and base camp.
Bad Climber

climber
May 12, 2014 - 10:42am PT
Yes, Jim D., I'm so with you on this. Climb the icefall or go home. Jeez. The Big E is such a zoo.

Cleo seems a bit "out there" based on her Kanchenjunga ascent. Relying too much on Sherpas to bail her out, maybe? She reminds me a bit of that guy, Marshal, I think? He got up and down Kanchenjunga by the thinnest of margins, only surviving a deadly fall because one arm accidentally slipped around a fixed rope. I read that story and said, "That guy's gonna die in the mountains." The next year, he died on Everest.

I hope the ladies get down okay.

BAd
jstan

climber
May 12, 2014 - 11:48am PT
A post from April 25 on the other thread.

I have found a source saying an Aircrane( power plant unspecified but probably the more recent and more powerful P&W) has carried a 2000 kg load to just under 29,000 feet. That's about two tons; a lot of trash. Nepal's climbing market is something like $25,000,000 a year just for Everest! And South Korea owns an Aircrane. South Korea might well be able to detail its aircraft to Nepal for the three month climbing season. If it did that Sherpa fixing the route could be airlifted over the Khumbu. At least that much could be cut out.

Really rich clients might even pay to go all the way to the summit. That trade by itself might pay for the chopper. And put every Nepalian through Harvard to boot.

In technical rock climbing we have chipping, top rope wiring and hang dogging, fixed draws, and............ But each person is still free to enjoy whatever it is they do. So let's concentrate here on something constructive that can be done. A short crosscut saw will even allow bodies to be brought down.

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 12, 2014 - 11:53am PT
The trash on the mountain..what a fuking disgrace.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 12, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
Too bad Everest hasn't seen any climbers for a number of years....they're usually better at cleaning up after themselves.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 12, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
I hardly know what to think about the helicopter
I know exactly what to think of the helicopter. BS For several previously enumerated reasons. And a very bad precedent.

My first wife and I walked in all the way from the Sun Khosi to Dingboche (heavy snowstorms closed the trail from there). Now you can take a bus or plane to Jiri. Fair enough. The expedition companies would be glad to set you up to walk from there. Walk in with your porters, get acclimatized, spend some $ with the locals, have a wonderful experience. Aww damn......you'd have to take another two weeks off work. They should close Lukla airport to tourists/climbers except for emergency services. Less beer in Lukla might be a good thing.
In My Not So Humble Opinion
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 12, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
I'm thinking the real solution to the whole ice fall ladder/chopper things is a catapult/winsgsuit/parachute combo. Huck their gear in there in some neon orange painted FISH texas luggage, then huck the "adventurer" right after the bags.

Would also solve the pesky issues of basecamp boredom, just point it the other way, strap on your wingsuit, and huck up about 3000', put on your skis and get some turns back to camp.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 12, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
She choppered in without the Heli-pad Doctors fixing the landing?

Gnarly...
Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
May 12, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
Climbing Everest alone is no easy feat. The technical demands might be low, but it still takes enormous stamina to do it alone, no matter where you start from. I wonder how many of the ones with BS comments have ever done high altitude mountaineering. I bet most of them would not make it to the South Col, even starting from Camp 2. I have great admiration for the two women and wish them the best!
steve shea

climber
May 12, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
I wish they would vacate the mountain. They are cheating, poaching, setting a bad example and possibly creating an incident which will have far reaching consequences. And they broke the permit agreement with the clandestine helo trip. I bet Elizabeth Hawley will regard these as non ascents. Asterisk ascents at best.

I have been to altitude many times; above 8000m sans O's a few times too. I guess style is not as important to some. But no way will a helo ascent be good juju. Talk about pissing on the puja!

Now back to the regularly scheduled nonsense.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 12, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
I'm thinking... world's highest zip line from the summit back to basecamp, woo HOO!!!!!

DMT
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
May 12, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
That would be cool.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 12, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
I bet most of them would not make it to the South Col, even starting from Camp 2. I have great admiration for the two women and wish them the best!
Yeah......I sure couldn't make it to the South Col. But hundreds have summited, ever since 1953. Many without oxygen.
Bugger those who need a chopper to get up to C2.

What is needed is much better monitoring of the Khumbu icefall and Nepali cojones to close the route to all when it's in bad condition. So there might be years no one gets past the icefall?
Tough S**T
Conrad Anker canceled his ascent plans last year when it was unsafe.
Why do adventure tourists feel they are entitled to get to the summit regardless of how it's done? Just because they've spent $15 - $25K?
I say build a telepherique from Kalla Pattar and dam the Dudh Khosi to power it. Fly 'em into Namche and they'll only have to walk for 3 days. 40% will fall over from altitude sickness. The rest can take videos from the pressurized gondolas.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 12, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
DMT...Larry, you guys are onto something. Complete the three ring circus....already has the highest via ferrata, the zipline combined with a high line to Lhotse rounds things out. I'm sure there must be a 500 ft. cliff for base jumping and hacky sack comps for basecamp.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 12, 2014 - 04:07pm PT
the zipline combined with a high line to Lhotse
I'll pay $10K for that! But only if you guarantee a clear day.
jstan

climber
May 12, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
It takes real discipline to solo the Big E. Goren Kropp bicycled there and back from Stockholm. Unaided. But the discipline really showed up when he decided how many underwear bottoms he had to carry. He divided the number by four. Each bottom can be reversed front to back and then also turned inside out. When he described his strategy every woman in the audience groaned audibly "EEWW!" Beats me why.

We lost a real gem when Goren died.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 12, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
Is that unusual? Can't carry a sh#t ton of clothes up a big mountain. Beyond BC, I usually have 2 pairs of socks and alternate them.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
May 12, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
I still have copies available of my 1999 award-winning prize-winnin' cartoon take on the crazyness, insanity, hilariousness, ribaldly, ghastly, horrible, poopy, yes, poopy, book ( which, if ya don't like, can be used to line a litter box )

EVEREST THE ULTIMATE HUMP.

12.95$ plus shippin'.

PM me.

Grin.
Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
May 13, 2014 - 12:54am PT
HT: "Yeah......I sure couldn't make it to the South Col. But hundreds have summited, ever since 1953. Many without oxygen."

..but how many did it SOLO, with no fixed ropes and no Sherpa help? I do not claim that their ascent, if successful, would have been done with the purest style, but their ascent would put them somewhere between Messner or Buhl, and the hordes that went up in siege style or in flocks, with massive Sherpa help. To succeed, they must have the determination and logistics skills that very few of us have.

HT: "What is needed is much better monitoring of the Khumbu icefall and Nepali cojones to close the route to all when it's in bad condition. So there might be years no one gets past the icefall?
Tough S**T"

Regulation by the locals is an insane idea. Should LA climbers decide when it is cold enough to climb in JT? ... Should the Chileans decide when it is safe to climb in Patagonia, the French decide when to open the Mont Blanc, etc!!


crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
May 13, 2014 - 01:05am PT

We lost a real gem when Goren died.

Agree. His solo ascent was foiled but he did climb it with another team.
nah000

climber
canuckistan
May 13, 2014 - 01:30am PT
crankster said: "His solo ascent was foiled but he did climb it with another team."

you sure about the climbing it with another team bit?

pretty sure that while his first solo and unsupported attempt was turned around just short of the summit, he did successfully try again using the same methodology. while he "admitted" to using the sherpa set route on the way back down due to exhaustion, that was the only compromise, if my memory serves correct, regarding the self supported and solo climbing doctrine that he set for himself...

regardless, a man with vision ahead of his time...
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
May 13, 2014 - 01:40am PT
You can all laugh it up but don't be inexcusable by making Elizabeth Hawley cross.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 13, 2014 - 11:52am PT
Regulation by the locals is an insane idea. Should LA climbers decide when it is cold enough to climb in JT
Irrelevant comparison as is Patagonia
Capitalistic Tourism vs real climbing. Paid porters/Sherpa lives at stake vs unassisted climbers. A dozen paid workers dead in one accident.
I agree closing the Western Cwm when the risk is excessive is controversial. I'll even agree it may not be a good or practical idea. But don't make ridiculous comparisons.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 13, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
four
four
Credit: Stewart Johnson
Are the days gone of small teams attempting new routes on Everest?
Only a few left and it requires a good sponsor.
cliffhanger

Trad climber
California
May 13, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
Flying in to camp 2 on Everest is very poor style, just as flying into Denali to the top of the glacier is very poor style. And driving into Yosemite to within just a few feet of the base of the climb is equally poor style.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
At what point is flying anywhere deemed 'good style'?

signed,
The Ozone Layer
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 13, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
Good flying style:
Soaring.....Condors
Hovering....Hummingbirds
Speed.....Peregrines
Barbarian

climber
May 13, 2014 - 02:21pm PT
...but how many did it SOLO, with no fixed ropes and no Sherpa help?

Messner was the only true solo with no one else on the mountain.
r2d2

Trad climber
East Bay
May 13, 2014 - 03:05pm PT
I agree with Guck.
How many of you who made BS comments here had done any 8000 meters, or even 7000 meters?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
What's a "BS comment", one that you don't agree with? And what does having
done a high peak do for one's ability to formulate a cogent opinion of what
good style is?
r2d2

Trad climber
East Bay
May 13, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
Calling these two women "bitches" are not cool, just because they are women?
If you have not done any 8000 meters, you can not judge the "style".
steve shea

climber
May 13, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
Seems the the use of the helo is help. There will be remnants of fixed lines from post monsoon '13. Also there are 7 sherpas just in case. An ascent of the big E starts at the base. Not the Western Cwm. The ladders on the step blah blah blah. As far as being on a par with Messner? I do not think he used air support. I saw Loretan and partner first hand tandem solo the Hornbein in '86 and they started at BC 16,000.

These will be regarded as stunts, non ascents, just high altitude hiking. What do you mean that we cannot judge the style? The style turned to $hit as soon as they took the helo assist.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
If you have not done any 8000 meters, you can not judge the "style".

I must have missed that logic when I read Hegel. If I climbed a 7950 meter
peak would I be entitled to an opinion?

I didn't see the women called 'bitches'. That isn't BS, that's way worse.

r2d2

Trad climber
East Bay
May 13, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
Base Camp may will have to be higher soon because of Global Warming.
steve shea

climber
May 13, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
Wow, yowza...
Tami

Social climber
Canada
May 13, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
If you have not done any 8000 meters, you can not judge the "style".

Disagree.

I can hold an opinion - judgement - whatever ya wanna call it - on anything. It might be less valid than someone who has had experience in that realm but it doesn't deny my ability to form an opinion.

For example, the Brit writer Ed Douglas has written some really cogent stuff about the Big E and he's not climbed it.

And what about the great Elizabeth Hawley?

What is happening on Everest seems just sad- and of course admitting that all I know about it what I read about c'os I'm in Canada and not in Nepal.

Difficult to thoroughly understand just why people are so fixated on climbing the big rig with so many other uncrowded stunning summits on this planet.

As for people poaching an ascent? I reckon karma will be a cranky mistress.

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 13, 2014 - 05:51pm PT
I just can't understand why people don't pick their sh#t up as they trudge unskillfully up that poor mountain. If you can't wheeze your way up that fuker, without dropping trash like turds, don't climb it. It's like all the BS at the local crags with people discarding trash, cigarette butts, etc. etc. Pick your f*#king sh#t up when you leave. How hard is it? Bag full of bottles and cans from this weekend at my local spot. F*#king disgraceful.
jstan

climber
May 13, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
S/C:
Know how you feel but don't despair. Back in 1970 a few of us began picking up trash in the Gunks. Pretty soon people started asking if we had extra bags. Last word I heard was that people are still doing this forty years later.

We are not going to be the answer however. Today's kids will be the ones to solve the problem. The last event I was on, families with kids under three were out there working as families. The kids love it. Em's two year old studied everything he found and wanted to know all about it. He kept it up for a really long time for a two year old. When he got tired Em put him up on her shoulders and they kept going. I never did a climb that pleased me as much as does seeing really great people stepping up to the line like this. Like you are doing.

Everest will one day cease to be a foe and will become a member of the family. An overly demanding father surely, but a member of the family. The process has already started.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2014 - 02:45am PT
Here's an interesting post from Russel Brice. Evidently he has had a lot of bureaucratic problems with the Nepalese Ministry of Tourism because of Wang Jing. Of course the Ministry of Tourism is being completely hypocritical in declaring the mountain open for climbing still, and then trying to punish him for her actions.



Many of you know that I have been dealing with the logistics for Jing Wang to climb the 7 summits and 2 poles in record time. Of course this project came to an abrupt end when I was forced to cancel my Everest and Lhotse trips.

I suggested to Jing that she go to the North side of Everest and obtain a climbing permit from the CMA or CTMA, but this was not forthcoming. Although Jing asked if I could arrange for her trip to continue on the South side, I refused and so did all my Sherpa staff.

In the event it appears that Jing has arranged to continue to climb with another agency and has without permission flown by helicopter to Camp 2, despite me warning her not to.

This has caused me considerable problems with the Ministry, who say that I am still responsible for Jing, despite me not knowing who the other operator actually is. Well in fact I do know who this operator is, but he continues to tell me lies, saying that he has not organised the 7 Sherpa’s that are currently with Jing, although they all come from his company. Even after repeated phone calls he still does not come to the Ministry to take on the responsibility of the Sherpa’s insurance and other such matters.

In the meanwhile the Ministry says that they will punish my company, quite a large fine and probably banned from coming to Nepal for 5 years. It is only in the past few hours that I have now been cleared of the responsibility for Jing and her phantom operator.

So for members who might think that I have carried on with my expedition, please know that this is the exact opposite, these actions of others has caused me considerable pain and hard work to clear my company name in the past few days.

Regards Russ

 See more at: http://himalayanexperience.com/newsletters/2014-expeditions/the-daily-moraine-everest-2014#sthash.gEQF5GWc.qYo4Zb0Y.dpuf



Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 14, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
Too bad Everest hasn't seen any climbers for a number of years....they're usually better at cleaning up after themselves.

Uh, no. The Western guides at least have done a fairly good job of cleaning up the place, especially lower down the mountain.

Even between our visits in 2001 vs 2012, there was a big difference in the amount of trash at the basecamps for the popular mountains.

Although places like South Col still have a bunch of trash (it's really expensive to get down), and likely will for a long time, the popular mountains are overall cleaner than they were a decade or two ago.

Read Krakauer's 1996 description of Gorak Shep, for example. He describes it as a an open sewer full of trash and human waste. It's not like that anymore, and is in fact a much cleaner and pleasant place. In addition to campsites and lot of popular campsites on the approach routes, the basecamps themselves, on the high mountains many of the popular campsites have been cleaned up to where they are better than they used to be. Still, trash does still exist and will likely be there for a long time.

As far as the "climbers" cleaning up after themselves, this has not been true in the Himalaya. Have you ever read the writings of Joe Tasker or Peter Boardman's books, for example?

Also, take a look at the mountains which haven't been guided. The Nanda Devi Sanctuary, for example, is still recovering (and closed so it can recover) from the big expeditions between 1936 and 1982. The only ones to blame for that are the "real" climbers since it has never been guided.

Nanda Devi (for example) has only been climbed 12 times (all by "real" climbers) and in 1993 (the last time anyone was legally allowed to enter), well over 2000 lbs of trash were removed from the former basecamp. The approximate weight of trash left behind was 200 lbs of trash for every climb, and this does include all the trash that was buried.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 14, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
big expeditions between 1936 and 1982. The only ones to blame for that are the "real" climbers.
There has been an improvement in "real climber" ethics worldwide since the 90s. Two neighbors of mine, both "real climbers" were on the Everest cleanup in I think '95. Even climbers' ethics can evolve. Tourist climbers who are buying their way, maybe not so much.
We still have a long way to go, especially for human waste.
You're invited to come to Yosemite Facelift in September. See the Facelift thread. Or maybe you already plan to.
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 14, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
There has been an improvement in "real climber" ethics worldwide since the 90s.


I agree (though guiding companies have improved their ethics as well). See the comment I was responding to though:

Too bad Everest hasn't seen any climbers for a number of years....they're usually better at cleaning up after themselves.

It seems to be implied that the "climbers" that haven't visited in a number of years were better at cleaning up after themselves.

Now days, climbers (including guiding companies) overall are better at cleaning up their trash (though improvements can be made, especially with increased traffic).

Anyway, here's some good news:

http://www.thestar.com.my/Travel/Asia/2014/05/08/Forced-Everest-cleanup/

From now on all climbers have to bring back an additional 8 kgs not including all their own garbage.
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
May 14, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
Göran Kropp, a Swedish adventurer, set out from Stockholm, Sweden on a Crescent Ultima bicycle and traveled 5 months and 8,000 miles carrying 240 lbs. of gear with him. He ascended Mt. Everest in May 1996, unassisted and without the use of supplemental oxygen. He then returned to Stockholm on his bicycle. The entire trip took one year.
Perhaps the only "real" climb of Everest ever?
TY
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 14, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
I saw Loretan and partner first hand tandem solo the Hornbein in '86 and they started at BC 16,000.

you saw that? Wow. That must be burned in. are you familiar with a guy named roger marshal? He had similar ideas and he was no babe in the woods either, but it didn't work out too well for him. That effort by troilet and lore tan was stunning.
Wildincognito

climber
Eastside
May 14, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
Scott Patterson said (before he deleted it)-
It depends on how you define "unassisted". He still did use the ladders and fixed lines placed by others.
I seem to remember in his book that he pioneered his own route up the icefall to avoid the ladders and possible criticism.
steve shea

climber
May 14, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
Yes. It was mesmerising as well. We had just pulled into base at upper Rongbuk. We knew they were there but not what the plan was. Their small camp was just up the glacier. Then during the night of the ascent we stayed up almost the whole time watching the headlamp glow moving up. It was surreal.

But even more impressive was their extremely fast glissade of the Hornbein. You could tell they had good snow skills and were probably good skiers as well. We went over and met them at their BC that afternoon. They hardly seemed phased, not spent and great shape. We were all stunned at what we had witnessed. They were magnanimous with their time and very humble.

Was with Dave Cheesemond on that trip to the North Ridge btw. Fellow canuck eh.
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 14, 2014 - 02:32pm PT
I seem to remember in his book that he pioneered his own route up the icefall to avoid the ladders and possible criticism.

I was under the impression that he used a fixed rope on the Hillary Step and on the descent but I deleted my post in case it was in error. Apologies if post was in error.
raymond phule

climber
May 14, 2014 - 02:39pm PT

I seem to remember in his book that he pioneered his own route up the icefall to avoid the ladders and possible criticism.

But he descended down the standard ice fall route on that trip (If I understood the book correctly) and I believe that he used it an his other ascends above base camp.

I doubt that he used many fixed ropes when he ascended and I don't believe that the route was close to having fixed ropes at that time. I believe that he did use fixed ropes and help when being in bad shape down from the south col.
steve shea

climber
May 14, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
I have to agree with Scott here. We found trash on the North side as well. From the earliest attempts to the Chinese effort. Not the mess of the south side but on its way.
raymond phule

climber
May 14, 2014 - 02:48pm PT

I was under the impression that he used a fixed rope on the Hillary Step, but I deleted my post in case it was in error.

He writes that he soloed it on the way up. On the way down he actually fall... get his feet tangled in the ropes and hangs upside-down...
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
May 14, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
He writes that he soloed it on the way up. On the way down he actually fall... get his feet tangled in the ropes and hangs upside-down...

Tripped by a hazardous fixed line, solo climber almost dies!
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 16, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
This thread is losing momentum, so a bit more info just in...

 The pilot did have permission to fly people to C2
 Cleo has 2 sherpas
 Wang has 8
 The helo had to do 12 flights to ferry an immense amount of gear from cb, including kms of ropes to fix, and has been told that the gear won't be needing to be brought down and whatever is not used will stay there till next season.

The show must go on... at all costs
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
Guy above-

What is your source for this latest info? I can't find it in any of mine.

Thanks!
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 16, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
On here http://www.montagna.tv/cms/60281/everest-sud-due-alpiniste-rimangono-a-provare-le-cime-e-salgono-a-campo-2-in-elicottero
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
My Italian is nonexistent but by combining French and Spanish to try to decipher it, I still couldn't find any source for their flights being legal from the Nepalese side? Then again, the Nepalese press has dropped the matter, so perhaps an accomodation was made?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 17, 2014 - 06:48am PT
And driving into Yosemite to within just a few feet of the base of the climb is equally poor style.

You walk to Yosemite i take it??
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
May 17, 2014 - 10:43am PT
Helicopters! Outrageous! What fool would even consider using a cheating, unethical, helicopter assist to climb a mountain?

Now, if the goal of the helicopter ride is to snowboard down the mountain, then of course it is perfectly acceptable. This is so because the fun factor overwhelms any ethical concerns.

Credit: Rick A

Credit: Rick A


“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” Ralph Waldo Emerson
jstan

climber
May 17, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” Ralph Waldo Emerson

Non-foolish consistency can be built upon.- Jstan
mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 17, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
It's instructive occasionally to see the rest of that quote:
"...adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
pocoloco1

Social climber
The Chihuahua Desert
May 22, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/lifestyle/nepal-opens-104-new-peaks/1117222.html


http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303627504579557941809078128?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303627504579557941809078128.html%3Fmod%3DWSJ_hp_RightTopStories

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 22, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
Jan, Folini says that Everest was never closed by the 'authorities' and goes
on with some mumbo jumbo about since his is a civilian helo it was OK to
fly them up there. He also says he tried to talk them out of it but a guy
has to make a buck. OK, I added that last phrase.

BTW, Weidlich sprayed "My ascent of Everest will go on with or without ladders."
(but not without a helocopter)
"I refuse to give in to the pressure of the Everest mafia." LOL!!!
YOU GO GIRL! FIRE UP THAT HELO!
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
Still no word on how the rogue girls are doing up there.

Meanwhile, an Indian woman climber who had already done Everest, Lhotse, and Kangchenjunga, and two Sherpas, were killed in an avalanche on 8,505 meter Yalung Kang, also known as Kangchenjunga west.

That brings the total of Sherpas killed in avalanches this year to 18.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2014 - 03:23pm PT
Himalayan News is reporting that Wang Jing and four Sherpas have successfully summited Everest from the southside after the Sherpas fixed rope up the Hillary steps for her. She succeeded in reaching the top only at 6:20 pm so it must have taken her almost 18 hours and she may be in a very bad condition. It is reported that three Sherpas are bringing her gear down to Camp 2 above the icefall and two are helping her down.No reports on how they plan to get back down the icefall with the ladders removed. Another helicopter ride perhaps?

"The Ministry of Tourism is currently gathering information about Wang Jing's successful ascent of Mt Everest, and will make a formal statement tomorrow".

And now the politics get really interesting!
WallMan

Trad climber
Denver, CO
May 23, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
Thanks Jan for the updates!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 23, 2014 - 04:39pm PT


And driving into Yosemite to within just a few feet of the base of the climb is equally poor style.

You walk to Yosemite i take it??

Um, is anybody taking rides on Everest to camp 4?
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 23, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
Himalayan News is reporting that Wang Jing and four Sherpas have successfully summited Everest from the southside after the Sherpas fixed rope up the Hillary steps for her. She succeeded in reaching the top only at 6:20 pm so it must have taken her almost 18 hours and she may be in a very bad condition. It is reported that three Sherpas are bringing her gear down to Camp 2 above the icefall and two are helping her down.No reports on how they plan to get back down the icefall with the ladders removed. Another helicopter ride perhaps?

I'm no expert, but isn't 6:20 awfully late to arrive at the summit?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 23, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
She helo'd part of the route. Not an ascent in my sorry little book.

http://news.msn.com/world/chinese-woman-first-to-climb-everest-after-deadly-nepal-avalanche
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
It is ironic that the first Everest ascent of the season was a helicpter ascent. There should be several more normal ascents from the north side in the next day or two.

It's also reported that Cleo Weidlich was last seen at Camp 3 which is the departure point for Lhotse.

Alan Arnette says it's rumored that Wang Jing paid for 20 trips to ferry supplies above the icefall - at $2,000 each.

The fact that the Nepalese authorities are now taking it in stride after threatening Russel Brice with a fine and banning for 5 years indicates a number of interesting trends.

1) It is highly likely the Chinese Embassy interceded.

2) The officials are probably angry at the Sherpas and their solidarity stance.

3) The officials want to preserve the idea of an open Everest at any cost (in order to preserve the income).

4) The outfitter that took care of Wang Jing's logistics and supplied the Sherpas is Nepalese.

5) This is probably the beginning of helicopter ascents and the beginning of the end for western guide services.



Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
May 23, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
Gray areas in climbing
 using a helicopter to bypass a dangerous section
 using fixed ropes and ladders that somebody else placed for you
 using tents, oxygen, etc. that you didn't carry
 using a plane instead of a bike to get to the base
 using a bike instead of walking
 using shoes
 using a road or bridge that somebody else built
 using bolts that somebody else placed
 using fixed lines to haul to Heart, without carrying them up the Free Blast yourself
 buying gear instead of making it yourself
 using a motorized winch to haul loads (Mt. Everest - Kangshung Face, 1983)
:-)
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2014 - 02:46am PT
So now maybe Everest at least is developing something similar to the difference between trad climbing and sport climbing? Helicopters equal hang dogging?
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 24, 2014 - 09:09am PT
It is ironic that the first Everest ascent of the season was a helicpter ascent.

That wasn't an "everest ascent" and there isn't such a thing as a "helicopter ascent"...

If we want to be pedantic we could term it an "everest summit", but skipping over 1/3rd of a route because you don't have the skills, logistics, strength, will, or whatever required to do it is not an ascent of the route/mountain.



John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 24, 2014 - 09:18am PT
Well, who's counting.

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 24, 2014 - 09:42am PT
Wang Dang Doodle

-Wille Dixon


Wang Jing first to summit Mount Everest this year

http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Wang+Jing+first+to+summit+Mount+Everest+this+year&NewsID=415843&a=3




The Chinese view?

http://www.chinawhisper.com/the-6-chinese-entrepreneurs-who-climb-mt-everest/
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 24, 2014 - 09:45am PT
I'd guess she was short roped and hauled like a tater sack, up and down.

Such a glorious conquest!

DMT
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 24, 2014 - 10:04am PT
She made sure to leave plenty of o2 tanks up there as well, like hansel and gretel with the bread crumbs, as the Sherpas dragged her to the summit. Word is she planted a flag on one of the corpses up near the top.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 24, 2014 - 10:07am PT
Deep Pockets
JerryA

Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
May 24, 2014 - 11:14am PT
Goran Kroop soloed the Icefall in 1996 in his summit attempt. There is a great film on his adventure.
raymond phule

climber
May 24, 2014 - 11:18am PT

Goran Kroop soloed the Icefall in 1996 in his summit attempt.

No, he didn't.

He soloed it the first time he was up the mountain, turned around and walked down the standard ice fall route. I believe that he used the standard ice fall route on all his other climbs above base camp.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 24, 2014 - 11:19am PT
She made sure to leave plenty of o2 tanks up there as well, like hansel and gretel with the bread crumbs, as the Sherpas dragged her to the summit. Word is she planted a flag on one of the corpses up near the top.

Some rather vile assumptions there, Sandstone Conglomerate.

What are they based on? Pure racism?
JerryA

Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
May 24, 2014 - 11:26am PT
Kroop turned around in sight of the summit because unlike the "Into Thin Air" people he had the sense to stick to a time schedule.
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 24, 2014 - 11:42am PT
What are they based on? Pure racism?

Credit: The guy above
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 24, 2014 - 11:49am PT
Questions of racism aside, Wang did employ 5 Sherpas to reach the summit.

Maybe someone should interview them to find out what actually took place.

Da Gyalje Sherpa, Tashi Sherpa, Lakpa Nuru Sherpa, Lakpa Gyalje Sherpa and Pasang Dawa Sherpa assisted her to the summit,”

Sometimes it's useful to read the articles:

“Wang and her staff may arrive back to Camp 2 tomorrow. Three Sherpas are bringing down the logistics and equipment, while two are helping her to descend,”

According to him, she was with seven Sherpas — five climbing guides and two cooks. “Sherpas fixed the ropes at the Hillary Step for her summit. There was a very clear weather throughout the day.”

Sources said Wang had chartered over a dozen chopper flights to prepare for the summit and she had very deep pockets to help fund her. “She offered hefty sum to Sherpas and purchased more than 8,000m of rope.”

EDIT: I could be wrong, but apparently eating isn't that important, since the cooks names aren't mentioned. I wonder what happened to the 8,000m of rope. Perhaps it will be cut up and sold in pieces as momentos, so that the Daddy Warbucks' can recoup their investment?
JerryA

Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
May 24, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
Weidlich has been above Camp 2 since May 8th ?
steve shea

climber
May 24, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
There was the first ascent, first solo, first sans Os, first guided, first ski, first women's ski, hang glide attemtps, body snatchers expeds, wingsuit attempt, speed ascent, enchainments blah blah blah. But this is the ultimate disgrace for what was once a proud endeavor. .02
jstan

climber
May 24, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
Has anything as proud as what Mallory and Irvine did, been done since? In wool shirts and leather boots yet? Every past accomplishment changes how we look at what is done today. With the "routes" marked on it El Cap looks like a plate of spaghetti. Nothing is the same as it was in the day.

Were we willing finally to suck up the cost always associated with doing a new thing, how might we change the way we live? That is a really interesting question. Yet no one tries to answer it.

Why are we attracted to "proud" things at all? Simple lack of self-confidence? At some fundamental level do we simply need to grow up?
steve shea

climber
May 24, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
Yes, but helos? There is some personal value to the discipline of ethic. This is the summit at all costs. Good for her but not for me.

For me the tops in proud was Messner solo and Troillet/Loretan totally unassisted Hornbein ascent. But BITD even on the extravaganzas, the members put in the route. Not sherpas. It was still climbed as a team exped style, but climbed. No more at least on the South col route.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 24, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
I certainly don't have the answer, but this bears (well) repeating.

Why are we attracted to "proud" things at all? Simple lack of self-confidence? At some fundamental level do we simply need to grow up?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 24, 2014 - 02:46pm PT
I got no cred to pass judgement on these types of climbs, but I always liked this essay from the greatest of them all.

http://blog.alpineinstitute.com/2008/10/murder-of-impossible.html
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2014 - 03:15am PT
Here's the latest Update.

Cleo Weidlich has abandoned her climb of Lhotse with two Sherpas and is back in Kathmandu, having failed.

Wang Jing did indeed take 21 hours to climb from the South Col to the summit of Everest and back. She left at 9pm and returned at 6 pm the following day. She explained that it was extremely difficult because there were no fixed ropes except at the Hillary Step and they were breaking snow.

She was greeted enthusiastically by the Sherpas, both officials and ordinary people, on her walk from Base Camp down to Lukla, for defying the odds and persevering through a long and difficult ascent. No doubt it will be debated whether the conditions made up for the helicopter. She has also noted that she had already been up and down the icefall before. The Nepalese government is now also enthusiastic about her climb. She is already on her way to climb Mt. McKinley. Her goal is "to set world record of climbing the nine highest peaks in all the continents within the shortest — five months — time". She told reporters that she may then stop climbing next year.

Both Sherpas and the Nepalese officials are now insisting that Everest was never closed, that this was false information given out by the western guide services. The Sherpas are saying that they are still struggling against the Nepalese government but western climbers should not have to suffer for that. I can't help but have the impression that they are now having second thoughts about what happened during the moments of high emotion and the consequences to their income. Blaming western guides may also be a power move by both Sherpas and Nepalese.

And finally, kudos to 16 year old Matt Moniz from Colorado who has summited both 8,201 m. Cho Oyu and Makalu, 8,643m. in the same week. He is National Geographic's Explorer of the Year.

There are still people trying to summit from the North side where a large team of Russians has already had success, but for me, that pretty well winds up the strangest season yet.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 26, 2014 - 09:26am PT
Strangest season yet.....maybe the saddest season with the deaths of sherpas who were preparing the way for a lot of people who didn't belong there.

Strangest season yet....because a Chinese woman took 21 hours from high camp because there were no FIXED ROPES except for the Hillary Step and they had to BREAK trail.

Strangest season yet because a summiteer had to actually work for it.

If it remains this way, which is highly unlikely, without sherpas fixing ropes and breaking trail we could see some BETTER seasons on the horizon.

edit: Mallory and Ervines climb was far from one of the better efforts on Everest because they violated the most important tenant in mountaineering.....they failed to get back to tell the tale.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 26, 2014 - 10:00am PT
the back side of Everest
the back side of Everest
Credit: Paul Teare
I'm assuming Everests back side just isn't
In the minds of climbers anymore
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 26, 2014 - 10:14am PT
Kangschung face approach
Kangschung face approach
Credit: Paul Teare
One would think super climbers would
Get some sponsors to pay for a trip
To the back side and do something
Different
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 26, 2014 - 10:16am PT
One would think.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
May 26, 2014 - 10:34am PT
edit: Mallory and Ervines climb was far from one of the better efforts on Everest because they violated the most important tenant in mountaineering.....they failed to get back to tell the tale.

All you need to know...whatever it takes to get your ass back home.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 26, 2014 - 11:10am PT
YMMV

9 July 2013

Steve Bate, 35, is the first registered blind person to conquer the El Capitan monolith in California

The former climbing instructor had to carry 100kg of supplies on the climb which took him six days to complete

Mr Bate was diagnosed with degenerative eye condition retinitis pigmentosa two years ago and is registered blind

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2358881/El-Capitan-Steve-Bate-blind-person-scale-rock-face.html




donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 26, 2014 - 11:18am PT
Nice......proud effort!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 26, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
That route on the Kangshung face has to be about the scariest looking route on the planet. I wonder if they ever once experienced a "big one" while they were on that lower buttress.

Then there's the massive acreage of perfect snowfields above. I dunno man I just don't get it.
steve shea

climber
May 26, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
I look at the second Kangshung photo and think of Tasker and Boardman. So close yet so far. The East ridge is huge.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 26, 2014 - 07:01pm PT
Two routes on that face
One climbed with twenty climbers which took two try's and employed
Oxygen a gas powered gear lift and
the most difficult climbing on the mountain
The other route climbed
The smaller buttress under the south col
Was with four climbers in 1988
With no oxygen
Niether teams used Sherpa above base camp.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 26, 2014 - 07:10pm PT
They used a motor second time around? The story on the first go was the two engineers ( Cheesemond and Lowe) rigged a counter weight elevator fuelled with snow filled haul bags, that worked like greased lightning. Its hard to imagine the logic of a gas powered winch considering that. i also heard that Lowe was the silver bullet in cracking the crux nailing wall. Also, on that first try they gained the top of the buttress only to find an avalanche hazard beyond anyones level of acceptability. One can only assume that luck was with them on the second go.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 26, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
They couldn't get the motors to work so a snow bag counterweight was used
Brilliant!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 26, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
couldn't get the motors to work... classic! Too bad Maestri didn't have that problem!
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 26, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
Has anything as proud as what Mallory and Irvine did, been done since?

Don't forget that Mallory lost seven Sherpa on his conquest.

Anyway, of course there have been many fine climbs on Everest since then. The 1963 West Ridge expedition comes to mind as one of the best.

Even recently, there have been many fine climbs. Actually, most of the routes on Everest have had little or no repeats. The Fantasy Ridge and Everest Horseshoe still haven't been done, despite some strong attempts.

One would think super climbers would get some sponsors to pay for a trip
to the back side and do something different

One would think.

Those days are mostly over. Getting sponsorship for new or seldom done routes on Everest is much more difficult than it used to be.

Everest isn't hip anymore (from a sponsor point of view) and almost all the media attention is focused on only bad news from Everest. Seldom do they report any good news. Exploration on new routes or repeating difficult routes is declining for this reason, while on the flip side the two standard routes have seen a big increase in traffic.

New climbs or difficult routes are simply ignored by the media in recent years and instead only bad news is reported. What sponsor wants to fork out hundreds of thousands of dollars for climb that will either be ignored by the media or one that will only report bad news.

A good example is that it is obvious from reading through this thread that most are completely unaware of the challenging climbs that have been done in recent years.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
May 26, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
No, they did use a motorized winch on the successful ascent in 1983.
(Yet another "gray area" in climbing).
They also used the counterweight system for a higher segment of the hauling.
http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12198400100/Kangshung-Face-of-Everest
During the ascent of the buttress we twice fired a rocket with a messenger line attached from Pinsetter Camp (20,000 feet) down toward the glacier just above Advance Base. Both attempts failed so we lowered our sights and succeeded in getting a line from Snow Camp at 19,000 feet down to 18,000 feet. We then pulled a 10mm highline up and following that a ¼-inch line which was to carry the loads. A tiny Honda engine allowed us to ferry everything to Snow Camp in a mere two days. John Boyle and Jay Cassell were our official engineers, but the gang was full of ingenious schemes for improving the system. In any event it worked and saved us from physical attrition. We could have carried the loads to Snow Camp in the same time it took us to perfect the winch.

A second hauling system above Pinsetter on the overhanging wall was a continuous line with a haul sack top and bottom. The load to be lifted to the top was loaded into the bottom bag and the top bag filled with snow until it was just a shade heavier than the load below. Up came the load with very little energy expended in the process.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 26, 2014 - 09:56pm PT
Thanks for clarifying that , Clint
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 26, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
Get some sponsors to pay for a trip to the back side

There are plenty of sponsors willing to pay for a trip to the dark side.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 27, 2014 - 12:24am PT
It's the highest peak but it just isn't elegant nor does it present the classic difficult lines available on a number of other peaks. Given that....it will always be a trophy "peak bag" rather than something that attracts good climbers because of a particular line.
All the lay public cares is that you "climbed" the peak....the particular route is irrelevant, and climbing Everest plays to the general public NOT to the real climbing community.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
May 27, 2014 - 12:28am PT
We here at "Sleds over Everest" are a bit jealous of the motor winch idea..

Sometimes ya feel like a nut,, sometimes ya dont..
caysedave

Trad climber
CA
May 27, 2014 - 02:07am PT
chopper solo?
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 27, 2014 - 08:43am PT
Jim
I'm sure you would have a different opinion
About elegance if you had climbed on any 8000 meter
Mountain?
Please Tell me I'm mistaken .
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
May 27, 2014 - 09:10am PT
All the lay public cares is that you "climbed" the peak....the particular route is irrelevant, and climbing Everest plays to the general public NOT to the real climbing community.

The unattainable has become a destination.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 27, 2014 - 09:16am PT
I think the speed climbing dimension there, has yet to be fully explored.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 27, 2014 - 09:17am PT
Yes but as climbers why do we give a
Sh'it about lay opinion ? Doesn't the general public think rock climbing is crazy ?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 27, 2014 - 09:31am PT
Yes Stewart Johnson you are mistaken. No, I haven't climbed any 8000 meter peaks. I have been invited to expeditions to Everest twice and also to other 8000 meter peaks and declined because kicking steps in snow doesn't appeal to me.
I don't think you are in a place to question my alpine bonafides. I have climbed on every continent and some of my climbs have been on some the world's most difficult peaks. I have climbed technical terrain (not moderate snow slopes) at 7000 meters.
Regardless of what I have done or haven't done....commenting constructively on the situation on Everest is not limited to people who have been on the peak.
Regarding elegance....Torre Egger, Latok 1, Poincenot, The Moose's Tooth, Mt. Hunter, Cerro Torre, Fitzroy etc. are elegant and I have intimate experience with them but ANYONE who merely saw a picture of them would agree that they are beautiful, impressive, elegant peaks.
The same cannot be said about Everest, it is big, and to some imposing, but i doubt many would call it elegant.

edit: Stewart baby, "climbers," i use that term advisedly, are on Everest PRECISELY because they care about lay opinion. They certainly don't delude themselves that real climbers will applaud their efforts.
steve shea

climber
May 27, 2014 - 10:07am PT
The viewing public is jaded. Now to get attention, what drives the sponsors, one must come up with another twist on the Big E. A wingsuit descent? Ho hum. But it is interesting that the Chinese woman did do it, by eliminating a third of the route, in somewhat good style though not intentional. Then she cries foul because of the lack of route preparation. I don't think the public cares or knows she only did part of the climb.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
May 27, 2014 - 10:13am PT
We at "SOE" are still groovin to this weight/winch idea. It would make the lobster and corn deliveries to the 22 high camps MUCH more efficient. Not to mention the SLEDS.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 27, 2014 - 10:28am PT
Lay opinion didn't factor whilst opening
The Neverest buttress with Robert Anderson, Stephen Venables
Ed Webster and myself in 1988
Quite a while back Jim.
And I'm familiar with your exceptional
Resume.
I was just wondering if you had been on an 8000
Meter hill. And you say no baby I haven't .
So I'm not mistaken you havent.
I understand your reluctance to wallow,
I think all high altitude climbers feel the same.
And your opinion is important to climbers!
Myself included.
To belittle fellow climbers and Everest
makes you seem like
A Dick
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 27, 2014 - 10:38am PT
Dick to Stewart....i'm calling it as i see it. Everest has an exceptional history from Mallory onto Messner but those days are over. It has devolved into a line of people, fully sherpa supported, with fixed lines to the summit. Sorry Stewart, that may be your bag, but I don't consider that climbing.
By the way....calling me a dick is a little outside the realm of intelligent discourse....is it not?
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 27, 2014 - 10:46am PT
Ah, ego.

It's such a simple word. Three little letters.

It means "I".

What happens when I's meet?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 27, 2014 - 10:51am PT
It has, but the west ridge is still just sitting there waiting for suiters. Thats as a sweet a line as it gets on a big hill. Then there's the full horseshoe traverse. I don't think the mountain is a total write off just yet. Just think... If simone Moro and his B3 did a little clean up at the col, they put a little closure fence on the kumbu icefall and the mountain might start to look quite attractive again!

Not so good for business though.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 27, 2014 - 10:56am PT
Well Randisi, without ego and a sense of "I"....where would we all be?
Interestingly, this thread is about Everest. I, obviously, have some opinions about the current state of affairs there. Like all internet discourse the discussion morphs, devolves from the original intent and becomes ad hominen. I think that i have said my piece, which is my opinion only,.....attack my arguments, different views are out there.
Have a climbing date in the Black, no step setting there....in fact, it looks like it might be too hot.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 27, 2014 - 11:08am PT
What happens when I's meet?

Then you sometimes have a situation which is referred to as "not seeing eye-to-eye".
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 27, 2014 - 11:12am PT
yes Jim perhaps dick wasnt nice.
calling me baby, wasnt nice either.

Climbing Everest nowadays it would be hard to find solitude.

Even if a difficult route were accomplished the descent would involve
stepping over all those non talented individuals who dont belong there.

I do remember meeting you in 1998 at the Talkeetna Ranger station,
you pretty much treated me like a punk that didnt know sh#t.
And my high esteem for you and your accomplishments sadly faded.

Have a great climb.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 27, 2014 - 11:25am PT
Stewart baby

C'mon, Stewart. That may be a bit belittling, but it isn't calling you a baby.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 27, 2014 - 11:33am PT
I'm sorry about Talkeetna Stewart....it's definetly not my usual style. I think a lot of visiting climbers to Camp 4 in the 70's can attest that i was one of the more welcoming locals.
Really have to take off....have fun everyone, and, for god sakes, straighten out the Everest situation!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 27, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
Hey Stewart that sure was one proud line and ascent you guys did on the Kangshung face. Didn't realize you were on that team.

Proud.

DMT
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 27, 2014 - 12:16pm PT
+1 ^^^
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
May 27, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
Stewie (Alpine) Johnson is a bad ass. Juss sayin..Some of his ice lines are extreme muthas....We at "SOE" Salute him, and wish he was on the "SOE" team that has now occupied the backside of the big E for two stinkin years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 27, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
Worlds highest tyrolian
Worlds highest tyrolian
thanks Dingus
We were the smallest team to climb a
New route on Everest besides Messner
Oh and Jim ,is the worlds highest
Tyrolian traverse elegant or not?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 27, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
Cheers :)

DMT
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 27, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
Question concerning this discussion and others.

If you have no interest in Everest, then why do you care how it is climbed? Personally I don't care how anyone else climbs a mountain as long as they leave it clean. That is the main issue I have with any styles of climbing.

Other than that, I don't care how you climb a mountain because it doesn't effect me.

Shouldn't people only climb to challenge themselves anyway? I like to share experiences with friends (even non-climbing ones), but I don't think I'd climb anything just to impress them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 27, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
Scott, you would care if a helo whizzed by you all day ferrying loads for
some rich phuk, wouldn't you? It irks me to no end just knowing some
azzholes are doing that. I bet they didn't use that helo to bring any
garbage down from the mountain either.
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 27, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
Scott, you would care if a helo whizzed by you all day ferrying loads for
some rich phuk, wouldn't you?

Sure I would care, but only if it happened on a mountain I wanted to climb. Funny thing is, I've climbed 1798 mountains across six continents and the situation hasn't ever come up yet.

Besides, even if I did want to climb Everest, and even if I wanted to do the standard route as a "real climber", couldn't I just do the peak in a different season other than a few weeks in May?
stinkyclimber

Mountain climber
Vancouver, BC
May 27, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Maybe I am missing something, but Venable's account of the 1988 Kangshung route doesn't mention a Stewart Johnson. It sort of sounded like you were intimating you were on the team, but again, could be missing something.

http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1989-90_files/AJ%201989%201-8%20Venables%20Kangshung.pdf
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 27, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
I've heard, they've brought down some of the bodies. By helo or otherwise, I'm not sure.

Here's a photo of them burning bodies on the Ganges. Fitting, given the glacier that gives the river it's rise, flows right by the big mountain.

Hindu Temple
Hindu Temple
Credit: John Duffield
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 27, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
Stewart is my avatar , stinky
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
May 27, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
Baaaaaahhahahahahhaaaaa....The ST detectives FAIL again !!!
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2014 - 02:15pm PT
While the river that flows from Everest's flanks does indeed end up in the Ganges, the headwaters for that river originates with water flowing out of the Gangotri Glacier in northwest India.

The goddess who lives on Everest is not the mother goddess of the earth as translated into English either, but one of five godess sisters, of whom she is not the most important.

:)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
May 27, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Poor Cinderella ?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
Actually, she's the goddess of wealth. Her more important big sister is the goddess of long life.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 27, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
Actually, she's the goddess of wealth

How a propos, she certainly is to the corrupt bureaucrats, n'est ce pas?
steve shea

climber
May 27, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
Jan, is Jomo Tseringma one of the five? AKA Gauri Shankar.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
Miyolangtsama is the goddess of wealth for everyone, but she has especially favored the Khumbu Sherpas. That's one of the reasons the death of 16 of them in a few minutes was thought to be a reason to pause for reflection. Obviously the goddess is angry about something.

Here's a thanka with the five goddesses plus a Tibetan saint namred Milarepa. Tashi Tseringma is riding a snow lion in the center, her centrality and size indicating her importance and Miyolangsama is the yellow one riding a tiger in the upper left.

Milarepa and the Five Tseringma goddesses.
Milarepa and the Five Tseringma goddesses.
Credit: Jan

Tseringma Khangri is the Tibetan name for the mountain known to the Hindus as Gauri Shankar.

And here's a close up of one of my favorite depictions of Tashi Tseringma.

Tseringma on her snow lion.
Tseringma on her snow lion.
Credit: Jan
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 27, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
Question concerning this discussion and others.

If you have no interest in Everest, then why do you care how it is climbed?

Good question.

I have no interest in Everest and I care deeply how it is climbed.

Reason being that for the big world of non climbers out there, Everest is all they know, and Everest climbers the only type of climber they ever hear about.

Therefore, what happens on Everest (fights, deaths, ladders, sherpas, helicopters, money, more deaths, etc) represents climbing to the non-climber.

In the US, non-climbers make up the huge majority of those who run and visit our national parks and other federally-owned climbing areas. Non-climbers own lots of land that we climb on. Non-climbers are the people who talk to the decision-makers about how user-groups should be given access/privileges (or not).

So, I can with good reason say that I care deeply about Everest. What happens up there affects all of us.

Currently, I regard the guides' customers as non-climber fakes. The scene is an embarrassing corruption of anything meaningful and worthy about being a real climber.

I worry that the selfish attitudes and tragedies we hear about up there will affect non-climbers' attitudes toward us real, genuine, everyday climbers. We will be viewed less are David Brower/John Muir nature-loving wilderness-visiting athletes and more as self-centered, entitled, ruthless, exploitative as#@&%es.
Fall Guy

Mountain climber
May 27, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
I worry that the selfish attitudes and tragedies we hear about up there will affect non-climbers' attitudes toward us real, genuine, everyday climbers. We will be viewed less are David Brower/John Muir nature-loving wilderness-visiting athletes and more as self-centered, entitled, ruthless, exploitative as#@&%es.

My personal obversation as I've watched the behavior of those who Crunch calls "real, genuine, everyday climbers" is that to a large extent they are pretty much what he detests in Everest climbers - namely they're self-centered, entitled, ruthless, exploitative as#@&%es. Any non climber who happens to stumble upon ST forums would have a hard time coming to any other conclusion.
Degaine

climber
May 28, 2014 - 04:17am PT
Stewart Johnson wrote:
Even if a difficult route were accomplished the descent would involve
stepping over all those non talented individuals who dont belong there.

Bold by me.

What does talent have to do with anything? Perhaps you are referring to levels of self-sufficiency and experience?

Crunch wrote:
Currently, I regard the guides' customers as non-climber fakes.


Bold by me.

Who gets to draw the line between climber/non-climber? Fake/real?

Where do you draw the line?
Degaine

climber
May 28, 2014 - 04:22am PT
donini wrote:
All the lay public cares is that you "climbed" the peak....the particular route is irrelevant, and climbing Everest plays to the general public NOT to the real climbing community.


Bold by me.

I would write that "summit fever" plays to the "real" climbing community in the US as well, or at least the US climbing/mountaineering media. I know of a few French climbers who recently put up very technical and difficult new routes in the Himalaya, routes that topped out on a ridge line for example, that interested the American climbing/mountaineering media little since the did not climb to an official summit.
steve shea

climber
May 28, 2014 - 10:08am PT
Thanks for the primer Jan. Where does Jomo come from on the Tibetan Map? And Jobo across the valley, Menlungtse? Female and male I guess?

I was fortunate enough to visit Milarepa's Cave.It is up the road from Nylam, on the trade route. Very interesting stuff. We met Tibetan pilgrims there from all over.

On another note we found a bombed out Nunnery in side canyon of the upper Rongbuk. There were kilns where the nuns made the highly desirable and highly illegal icons passed to fellow Tibetans. In Lhasa, at the time you could still be arrested for passing icons. '86 Bombed by Mao btw.
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 28, 2014 - 11:16am PT
Crunch wrote:
Currently, I regard the guides' customers as non-climber fakes.


Bold by me.

Who gets to draw the line between climber/non-climber? Fake/real?

Where do you draw the line?

Degaine, there's no line. There is a spectrum. At one end is Stephen Venables, Ed Webster, Paul Teare, Robert Anderson. They picked their own line, they found and dealt with incredible levels of risk, technical difficulty, hardship. They valued the process, the challenge, the uncertainty. Huge props to those guys.

At the other end is the modern client/customer peak bagger who wants to summit all the Seven Summits. They care nothing about the mountain itself. They are content to ascend ropes, fixed by others, the entire way. Or use a helicopter, or gangs of sherpas to "assist" and carry everything. They are careless/greedy enough to arrive at the summit at 6:20 PM, endangering themselves and the lives of the sherpas who accompanied them. They pay other people to work hard and even die, just so the client/customer can get to the top.

Guiding Everest did not start out this way. At first, there was uncertainty, risk, clients would often be turned back. But not so much any more.

Where to draw the line? That's for each of us to decide.

EDIT: Added Paul Teare to the 1988 expedition team.
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 28, 2014 - 11:57am PT
Sorry to interrupt the willy-waving, but i thought this to be of good enough comedy value to miss sharing http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Wang+claims+she+cleared+Icefall+route+on+foot%3B+govt+begins+probe&NewsID=416270

And now back to the scheduled program
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 28, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
legendary mountaineer Wang Jing

I admit to being mostly ignorant about famous Asian mountaineers. What did this woman do to garner 'legend?'

Just curious, I guess.

DMT
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 28, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
They are careless/greedy enough to arrive at the summit at 6:20 PM, endangering themselves and the lives of the sherpas who accompanied them.


Um, plenty of "real climbers" do that too (and on many other mountains besides Everest). More Sherpa by percentage were lost on "real climbing" expeditions.

In fact some of the "real climbers" have even intentionally caused death or injury to Sherpa. Luckily the percentage of them doing so is small.

They pay other people to work hard and even die, just so the client/customer can get to the top.

Same is true of the "real climbers".

So in your eyes, it's perfectly OK for real climbers to cause death and injury to Sherpa so they can get to the top, but somehow not OK for guided climbers?

I assume that you must be completely ignorant on the history of Himalayan mountaineering.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
May 28, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
None of these punters have or will have summit bikini pics, nor will they have a lobster and corn meal delivered fresh to the summit, nor will they have the first ever sled to the summit,, so we at "SOE" scoff and mock them all.....


and ill bet you all thought my "SOE" ventures to be a bit outlandish in nature- while all the while we are getting closer to the actuality eh..;-)
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
Steve-

I envy your visit to Milarepa's cave! The Buddhist nun I lived with in Rolwaling had spent 3 months there when she was younger, ringing a bell, saying a mantra and doing a prostration - 100,000 times!

You are right to surmise that Jobo and Jomo are male and female. Jomo and Chomo mean female goddess and Jobo and Chobo, male god. They are different ways of transliterating Tibetan to English, is all.

In this case it is Jomo Tseringma and Jobo Garu, erroneously renamed Melungtse by Chris Bonnington. It seems he probably didn't have a copy of Schneider's map to the area at the time he climbed there, and that was the only good one available.

The actual Melungtse is a small 20,000 ft + (sorry I don't have my map with me) mountain overlooking Melung or Menlung Pass between Menlung Valley and Rolwaling. Menlung Valley of course runs into Rongshar.

Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 28, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
Steve-

I envy your visit to Milarepa's cave! The Buddhist nun I lived with in Rolwaling had spent 3 months there when she was younger, ringing a bell, saying a mantra and doing a prostration - 100,000 times!

Milarepa himself would probably tell you that his actual cave is irrelevant.
steve shea

climber
May 28, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
When there to climb Menlungtse we did a number of those small peaks to acclimate. All on the ridge between Jomo Tseringma and the Menlung La. We also skied from below the north side of the Menlung La to the valley. Bonnington was there with the Norwegians in '86 maybe.

I checked the map. Looks like point 6257m. Chekigo, to the east of the La. Pt 5700m to the west.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
Randisi, you're right unless all that was just a prelude to meditation which can be done anywhere.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
Steve,

Chekigo which means religion opening door since it is near the pass that connects two sacred valleys, has become a popular peak to climb now and can be done without an expedition permit. In fact almost a dozen peaks in Rolwaling around 6,000 m. have been given that designation in the past month.

You may have been the only group to have climbed it from the north side?

If you skied down the north side of Menlung La, you must have had better conditions than when I was there. We had a one inch crust on top of several feet of powder and had to crawl like crabs the last 500 feet to keep from sinking up to our waists.

When we got to the top, there was a beautifully made igloo about 100 ft. from the summit down on the Chinese side. We figured it was built by a Chinese patrol so we took quick photos and crawled back down.

Meanwhile, since Schneider's map was published already in 1974, I'm not sure why Bonnington chose to call Jobo Garu, Melungtse?
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 28, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
So in your eyes, it's perfectly OK for real climbers to cause death and injury to Sherpa so they can get to the top, but somehow not OK for guided climbers?

Not at all. I said there was a spectrum. By that I mean there are two extremes: the self-sufficient, self-powered, highly skilled climbers. Stephen Venables and crew come close. Charlie Fowler aspired to this ideal. Ueli Steck. Experienced, skilled climbers who treat the mountain and the locals with respect. They have put in many years of practice and experience. On the mountain, they try to take their own risks, as much as they can.

And on the other end of the spectrum there's people to whom getting to the summit is all they care about. They have the financial resources and single-mindedness that, in recent years, they can feel entitled to getting to the summit despite having little or no knowledge of climbing/mountaineering techniques. The summit-baggers look for greater certainty, less risk. The risks involved are slowly transferred to others, guides, sherpas.

I'm very happy that the woman who recently summited made it down OK, despite having arrived at the summit so late in the day. Had any of her summit-attempt-supporting sherpas perished, so soon after the icefall tragedy, it would have been awful and reflected very poorly on her and on climbers in general. She took a huge risk in not turning around hours earlier.

I assume that you must be completely ignorant on the history of Himalayan mountaineering.

True enough. Ya got me there. But I care about style in climbing, whatever the location and altitude. And perhaps not only me. Look at the title of this thread:

"Craziness on Everest Southside Continues"
Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 28, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
Ueli Steck. Experienced, skilled climbers who treat the mountain and the locals with respect.

Ueli Steck actually has a bad reputation among many of the locals. It was more than just the fist fight that was on the news. Where did you hear that the locals all like him? I'm sure there are always two sides to every story though. He is obviously an admired climber.

And on the other end of the spectrum there's people to whom getting to the summit is all they care about. They have the financial resources and single-mindedness that, in recent years

Being hell bent on the summit and putting others in danger isn't confined to just those with vast financial resources or to recent years. That is a myth.

Consider some of these examples:

Crowley, for example was an early 1900’s Himalayan explorer. He actually caused the frostbite of several porters because he talked them into thinking that he had powers that would protect them when they walked barefoot in the snow. On Kanchenjunga, he refused to help porters and fellow climbers who were caught in an avalanche because Crowley was too busy writing up his news article.

Mallory lost 7 porters in 1922 because he was overambitious in reaching the col with supplies. He admits this and it plagued his conscience.

The 1930’s saw a whole lot of porter deaths due to personal ambition.

Even the well-respected Herzog, author of the best selling mountaineering book of all time simply “forgot” to mention that one of their porters was killed on the 1950 expedition while hauling loads to camp. It wasn't his fault, but it seems that the death should have been mentioned. It is also true that his personal ambition for the summit caused the climb of a hugely risky and potentially deadly route. Still he is admired (I enjoy reading about his adventures as well). He may not have been admired had the expedition been wiped out, which was a possibility if luck had been the other way.

The 1954 K2 expedition is perhaps the greatest example of personal ambition and lack of respect for human life. Compagnoni more or less intentionally caused the permanent maiming of the greatest Hunza climber of that time period (Mahdi) just to make the expedition sound more glorious to the general public. He intentionally caused one of the greatest local climbers of all time to become a permanent cripple, with very little compensation after the fact.

How about the 1986 season on K2? Books and books have been written on that season and how personal ambition caused so many deaths.

Anyway, those are just a few very few examples.

The truth is that personal ambition in the Himalaya is nothing new, and neither is the risk posed to porters or Sherpa.

The media just focuses on the negative side now and on Everest. The same things that happen on Everest (both good and bad) happen on other mountains as well.

This doesn't excuse those those others in danger, but it is and has hardly been limited to rich and guided climbers.

K2 is seldom guided, but look at all the debacles that have happened there in recent years, including to the Sherpa.

Too bad people and the media won't focus more on the positive aspects of climbing.

But I care about style in climbing, whatever the location and altitude.

Out of curiosity, what is your style of climbing when you have climbed 6, 7, and 8000 meter peaks?

Anyway, I care about style to, but only when it effects me (or puts human life recklessly in danger), which is why the most important style is to leave the mountain clean.

If a climber wanted to use 100 bottles of oxygen while eating lobster dinners every night and had his porters carry it all, but kept them all reasonable safe, and cleaned up after himself, I really wouldn't care.

I'd be much less upset with that then a real climber leaving a big mess behind.

In my own opinion, it sounds like much of the disdain from rich guided climbers is out of jealousy. Who doesn't wish they had $100,000 of spare cash lying around that you could blow on some mountaineering expedition? You may not climb Everest with it or climb in a style that you don't agree with, but come on, you wish you could do it.

Anyway, I do know where some of the disdain comes from. I got a kick about Beck Weather's book for example, about how he made himself out to be some obsessed mountaineer, when in reality he had only climbed a few guided mountains (he was guided on Longs Peak as well). I haven't read the book lately, but it seems like he only did Longs Peak and some of the 7 Summits as well? His wife came across as a real b---- as well. Anyway, I found his writing about being an obsessed climber to be really annoying, but I hardly think that it really affects me much.

Besides, as far as rich 50 year olds that want to go an a guided adventure, how do you want them to spend their money? Invent some time machine so they can start at 20 and become a dirt bag climber and work their way up from there? Or perhaps they should stick to home and play golf with golden putters?

I don't really admire the guided climbers climbs, or consider them to be a real mountaineering accomplishment, but then again, if they leave the mountain clean, it doesn't affect me and I won't disparage them from challenging their own selves in their own way. People shouldn't climb solely to impress someone any way.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 28, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
Besides, as far as rich 50 year olds that want to go an a guided adventure, how do you want them to spend their money? Invent some time machine so they can start at 20 and become a dirt bag climber and work their way up from there?

Yes!


Or perhaps they should stick to home and play golf with golden putters?

Now you've gone too far.

DMT
r2d2

Trad climber
East Bay
May 28, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
"In my own opinion, it sounds like much of the disdain from guided climbers is out of jealousy. "
I second that.

Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 28, 2014 - 04:28pm PT
Crunch you forgot to mention me along with Ed Webster Robert Anderson and
Stephen Venables
I'm Paul Teare . I was also on the 1988 team
I'm
The guy posting the the pictures thank you.
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 28, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
Doh, sorry Paul Teare.

Huge respect for that Kanshung Face climb. Showing what is possible.

Demonstrating excellent style.

clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
May 28, 2014 - 05:04pm PT
"In my own opinion, it sounds like much of the disdain from guided climbers is out of jealousy. "

Really?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 28, 2014 - 05:38pm PT
Not jealous at all. If this is what you want to go through for the experience, more power to you.


Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 28, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
Not jealous at all. If this is what you want to go through for the experience, more power to you.

I am not jealous of that either. I wouldn't want to do that climb either, especially with the crowds in the picture. I personally have no interest in climbing Everest (other than perhaps for a vague desire to see the things I've read about in historical accounts; I love mountain history).

I am however, jealous that people have $50-100K that they can drop down on a mountaineering expedition. Anyone who doesn't admit that they aren't jealous of that is probably lying. ;)

Really?

Yes, really. Otherwise why the disdain for a mountain that people claim that they don't have any interest in anyway? Other than Everest bashing has become hip and cool and is a good way to stroke one's ego.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 29, 2014 - 12:07am PT
Credit: Paul Teare

Having a good time on Everest
Can be expensive
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
May 29, 2014 - 12:18am PT
can't really relate to wanting to spend even forty bucks to travel a well-worn trough over corpses, then stand in line to tag a summit that's been tagged hundreds, if not thousands, of times before. not climbing, not mountaineering. just serving one's ego.

I try not to be too judgmental about what people do with their lives. If someone sees it differently from me, then I'll respect that opinion. Or failing that, I'll pretend to respect the opinion.

But Christ. what a joke.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 29, 2014 - 12:30am PT
Is that your foot, Stewart?
Degaine

climber
May 29, 2014 - 04:22am PT
ms55401 wrote:
can't really relate to wanting to spend even forty bucks to travel a well-worn trough over corpses, then stand in line to tag a summit that's been tagged hundreds, if not thousands, of times before. not climbing, not mountaineering. just serving one's ego.

Serving one's ego is an integral part of climbing and mountaineering. Even more so if you have kids.

Now it's not all about ego, but to deny that the ego plays a key role in our mountain pursuits, well that's just incorrect.

As mentioned earlier, keeping the mountain clean, respecting the locals and other climbers is where I personally draw the line. But if you think there's an ocean, or even a gulf, between those who summit Everest as part of putting a notch in their belt, and those who continually seek out first ascents in the Himalaya (even if on difficult routes), well you're just kidding yourself. It is part of the very same ego driven, goal mentality.

I respect those who get in and get out without leaving a trace. Like others, I am fascinated by reports of ascents in the big ranges (or even smaller ones). In general, it seems as though humanity, and especially our small loose-knit mountain sports community, reserves its admiration for those who seek adventure and push beyond the edge of the envelope.

But as Scott Patterson astutely points out in the examples of mountaineering history, ego and being self-centered have been an integral part of mountaineering and climbing from the get-go, long before the conga lines.
Degaine

climber
May 29, 2014 - 04:33am PT
Scott Patterson wrote:
I don't really admire the guided climbers climbs,


I doubt that people hire guides seeking your or anyone's admiration.

Scott Patterson wrote:
or consider them to be a real mountaineering accomplishment,


Define mountaineering accomplishment. Better yet, how about defining what I or anyone else besides you considers to be their own personal mountaineering accomplishments.

Scott Patterson wrote:
but then again, if they leave the mountain clean, it doesn't affect me and I won't disparage them from challenging their own selves in their own way.


I'll be sure to let the guiding community know that you won't disparage their clients. I'm sure they'll be as relieved as I am.

Scott Patterson wrote:
People shouldn't climb solely to impress someone any way.

Nor should anyone care what or how others climb if they adhere to the "keep the mountain clean/don't affect others" principle that both you and I appear to agree with.

It's the same issue with style: if I choose to pull on gear through hard sections of a climb, but leave no trace (fixed) why should it matter?

Scott Patterson

Mountain climber
Craig
May 29, 2014 - 09:50am PT
Define mountaineering accomplishment.

That's the thing. It's different for everyone. I said I personally didn't consider some climbs to be mountaineering accomplishments, but I have no problem if anyone disagrees or has a different definition.

I can only define it by myself and even when I do, I have constantly changed or evolved my own definitions as time passes. For example, 10 years ago, I thought that I’d only “count” climbing a Colorado 14er if I climbed it in the calendar winter. I finished over half of them in winter, but my goal was simply taking too long and since the failure rate on the harder peaks is higher in winter, I would mind myself visiting some of the peaks multiple times and it was taking away from other things I wanted to do and climb. So I changed my own rules and definitions (the change was that I'd only count them if it was either winter or I was with my kids-unusual definition for sure, but it's mine). (I used to think and say that guided climbs never count as true ascents, but I changed my mind later and thought it should be left to the individual).

That’s the thing about mountaineering. Other than leaving the mountain clean and respecting life and others, we really don’t have to have a set of rules or definitions (other than difficulty ratings). That’s how mountaineering should be. We should all have our own goals and definitions of accomplishment. We certainly don’t have to define it for everyone else. Now, if someone is making a big mess of the mountains and being disrespectful (the flying a helicopter back and forth example someone mentioned), or putting others in danger, that does change things since it is affecting others.

Anyway, I have my own goals. Here they are:

http://www.summitpost.org/scott-s-wish-list/335481

Is it the same for anyone else? No, it isn’t, nor should it be.

Also, accomplishments are so often dependent on circumstances, so it’s hard to define when something is a mountaineering accomplishment.

I could use my recent trip as an example. I and two other climbers just got back from Peru. We either climbed or attempted and got high on El Misti (5822 meters/19,101 feet), Pichu Pichu (5665 meters/18586 feet), and Hualca Hualca (6025 meters/19767 feet).

Are those mountains real mountaineering accomplishments and especially if we didn’t reach the top of some of them? Heck, we even took some local guides. Shameful, I know.

Maybe some will thumb their nose at what we did and the peaks we climbed. Ah, but there were some special circumstances. I have climbed hundreds of mountains much more difficult than the above and without guides, but this time my two climbing partners were a nine year old girl and an 11 year old boy. To me that was a game changer concerning the decision of whether or not to take a local guide. I would think myself a fool if I went up there for that long and that high with only me and the children. I think getting up to 5850 meters/19,200 feet on Hualca Hualca was quite an accomplishment, especially considering the weather and conditions that we had. It was certainly an accomplishment for them. Here is the trip report:

http://www.summitpost.org/adventures-in-peru-the-sequel/894764

Does anyone here think I should not have gone with a guide if taking a nine and 11 year old to that high of mountains, with no other adult other than myself?

So no, I won’t define mountaineering accomplishment, because no one should care about my definition anyway, other than mountaineering is the act of climbing mountains. ;)

Don’t like the crowds on Everest? No problem, climb something else (or on a different route or season). The DC on Rainier is too easy and has too many guided climbers? No problem, climb the Liberty Ridge. Still too crowded? Climb it in March.

There are hundreds of thousands of mountains (and literally millions of routes) in the world. Some are high while some are low, some are easy and some are hard, some are crowded and some still haven’t seen a climber’s boot.

There’s plenty to choose from, so go out there and climb. As long as they are being respectful of life and leaving the mountains clean, don’t worry so much about what everyone else is doing.

In the end, the only purposes (in my eyes) for mountaineering is to challenge one’s self, to have a good time, create memories, and to keep in shape. Of course as I have said many times, you have to be respectful of others and leave the mountains clean.
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 29, 2014 - 10:33am PT
The guy's rule of thumb to differentiate "real" climbers and mountaineers.

Mountaineers climb mountains, climbers climb routes, punters pay to be taken up mountains.

So:

"I want to climb Denali" (Any route, any means, it doesn't matter. They just want the tick. Will pay somebody to do the work for them) = Punter

"I want to climb Denali" (Any route, it doesn't matter. They just want the tick. They'll do the work themselves) = Mountaineer

"I want to climb the Cassin Ridge" (Self supported and on their steam)= Climber

"I want to climb the Cassin Ridge" (Any means, it doesn't matter. They just want the tick. Will pay somebody to do the work for them)= Punter pretending to be a climber

Anyone trying to sell "their story" for life coaching/motivational talks is immediately relegated to 'Punter', even if they soloed the Slovak direct in 5 hours on their budgy smugglers, in winter.

It IS the law
Fall Guy

Mountain climber
May 29, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
The guy above said
Anyone trying to sell "their story" for life coaching/motivational talks is immediately relegated to 'Punter', even if they soloed the Slovak direct in 5 hours on their budgy smugglers, in winter.

Conrad Anchor may be surprised to learn that he has been relegated to the rank of punter.
The guy above

climber
Across the pond
May 29, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
Conrad Anchor

Who? This guy?

Credit: The guy above

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 29, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
I'm sure Conrad Anchor is quite secure with his grip on the climbing hierarchy ladder.

DMT
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 29, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
^^^ Lol!!
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
And I'm back with the story that never seems to end.


Wang Jing signed a statement for the Nepalese government that she never took a helicopter to camp 2. However, the helicopter pilot and her Sherpas are saying otherwise.

The Ministry of Tourism is now angry again, and has started an investigation. She of course is off to Mt. McKinley.

So many interesting politics at work, mostly at cross purposes.

  

 
RAJAN POKHREL

KATHMANDU: The government today initiated investigation into legendary mountaineer Wang Jing’s claim of crossing the Icefall route on foot on her way to scale Mt Everest from the Nepal side.

The Ministry of Tourism and Civil Aviation is collecting details of her summit after Wang, 41, claimed in writing that she never used a helicopter to reach Camp 2, contradicting the claims of her guide and chopper pilot who accompanied her from the Base Camp, Joint Secretary at the Ministry Madhu Sudan Burlakoti told THT.

Mountaineers and operators have criticised Wang for using chopper to bypass the most difficult route that was struck by an avalanche on April 18. Except for an emergency rescue and permitted flights to carry load, choppers are not allowed above the Base Camp.

According to Wang’s application stating her itinerary from May 9 to 23, she used the chopper only to airlift logistics, equipments and two sherpas (a porter and a guide) to Camp 2, Burlakoti said. “We are seeking detailed report from the Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal and helicopter companies about the flights made in the Everest region,” he added.

Earlier in a post-summit interview with THT, Wang had refused to provide details of chopper use, claiming she had crossed the dangerous Icefall route several times. But Da Gelge Sherpa told this daily in Namche Bazaar that he had flown with Wang to Camp 2 from the Base Camp on May 10.

Fishtail Air’s Captain Maurizio Folini also confirmed that he had piloted a four-seater Bell 206B III Jet Ranger helicopter to carry Wang from the Base Camp to Camp 2 on May 10. Folini had told Montagna, an Italian TV, on May 15 that he conducted flight to carry Wang to Camp 2. Folini said he had advised her to avoid the use of chopper in the name of climbing.

Wang, who scaled Mt Everest at around 6:20 pm on Friday, also flew back to the Base camp from Camp 2 on Sunday morning on the Bell chopper, Folini, who was her pilot on the return flight also, told THT.

Jing will visit Nepal on June 19 to collect her certificate.

 See more at: http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Wang+claims+she+cleared+Icefall+route+on+foot%3B+govt+begins+probe&NewsID=416270#sthash.IPfT7Zvz.dpuf//
Scott McNamara

climber
Tucson, Arizona
Jun 5, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
http://himalayanexperience.com/newsletters/everest-2014/the-daily-moraine-everest-2014-3#sthash.4UCsP5px.GFoXxDL1.dpbs
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
Thanks Scott, I was just getting ready to post that. Russell Brice is so frank with his criticisms of the Tourism Ministry, I have the impression he doesn't plan to climb on the southside next year.

Then again, other civil servants in the Ministry have been on strike against the under secretary, so maybe Russell is thowing in his hat with them, thinking they're going to win?

Here's a short summary of all five of his articles for those who don't want to read the details.

http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.dw.de%2Fadventuresports%2Frussell-brice-points-the-finger%2F&lang=en

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 8, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
very interesting article on the situation:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/sherpas-fate-and-the-dangerous-business-of-everest-1400780100?tesla=y&mod=djcm_mte_o_hsad1_28Jul14
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 8, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
None of the Sherpas caught up in the disaster was wearing an avalanche beacon, which transmits a signal so rescuers can find buried climbers. Such beacons, which cost about $300 each, aren't required and most expedition companies don't issue them to Sherpa staff members.

Mr. Hahn, the RMI guide, thinks the beacons should be mandatory. They are unlikely to save the lives of those who are buried, he said, but they will help reduce the risks to searchers trying to retrieve bodies by speeding their location and recovery.

But Guy Cotter, managing director of Adventure Consultants, said they only create false hope and thereby increase the risk to rescuers. When it is a large block of ice collapsing, "it's not an avalanche rescue," he said. "It's basically a mining project to get people out."
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
Well it's official now. There are old fashioned bottom to top ascents of Everest and a new category labeled "aviation assisted climbs". No less than Liz Hawley has recognized this new category.

“We at the Database think we need to add a new category of caveats perhaps called aviation-assisted climbs. That category would also include Yuichiro Miura’s climb of Everest in spring 2013, when he flew out of Camp II to Base Camp to avoid the Icefall. And Cleo Weidlich’s attempt on Lhotse this spring.”

"Wang Jing meanwhile admitted that she had used a helicopter on Everest. “The Sherpas have great mental pressure and they were reluctant to step into that place”, Wang said in an interview of China News Service. “I knew our decision could discount the climbing efforts. However, I would like to accept the losses for the sake of safety.”

This was confessed I might add, after she stated in writing for the Nepalese Tourism Ministry, that she did not fly to Camp 2.

http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.dw.de%2Fadventuresports%2Fnew-everest-category-aviation-assisted-climb%2F&lang=en
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 06:53am PT
And the Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal has now inserted some common sense, recommending a strict rule to ban the use of helicopters above Base Camp except for rescue missions.

This comes amid more unfavorable news about Wang Jing.

"The chopper use kicked up a row after Chinese climber Wang Jing flew to Camp 2 from the Base Camp, along with seven Sherpas, during her ascent to Mt Everest this spring.

Wang had chartered more than a dozen flights. Most of them with call sign 9N-AJI were piloted by Italian national Maurizio Folini starting May 10, bypassing the most treacherous icefall route during her summit. American climber Cleo Weidlich also flew to Camp 2 from Gorak Shep on May 8 but later abandoned her bid to scale Mt Lhotse.

Wang is planning to visit Nepal by the end of this month to collect her certificate. Mountaineering fraternity, including expedition operators, stand united against Wang, saying she flouted climbing norms and ethics to degrade Everest popularity. But MoTCA Joint Secretary Madhusudan Burlakoti said she had the right to obtain summit certificate.

Wang, who initially tried to hide information on helicopter ride, later owned up to it, claiming she was left with no other option to reach Camp 2."

CAAN’s aviation safety department officials, however, hinted that action against helicopter companies was unlikely due to lack of specific laws.

The report recommended that to ensure action there had to be a rule to allow only rescue flights above the Base Camp.


http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Ban+rampant+chopper+use+on+Everest%3A+CAAN&NewsID=419271#sthash.2AkR1nqf.dpuf
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jun 25, 2014 - 06:55am PT
You get a summit certificate?

Blech!
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 06:57am PT
Bold action on Wang's part - and an asterisk on her ascent.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Jun 25, 2014 - 06:57am PT
Cheater .
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 25, 2014 - 06:59am PT
Summit certificate?

What a bunch of tards.

Summit certificate. WTF???

No cert, no summit!

Seriously, a bunch of tards.

DMT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 08:17am PT
I wonder how many bureaucrats work in the certificate office.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 09:52am PT
All the ones who want a share of the $10,000 climbing permit.
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:44am PT
Summit certificate?


http://licm.org.uk/livingImage/Kodak_VPK-1920-360deg.html#

Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
All the Sherpas I know are on the lookout for that camera! They know what it's worth.
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Jun 25, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
what it's worth.


rimshot?... respectfully, namaste
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jun 26, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
some stunning and sad views of the bodies being choppered out.

The guy taking the video then moves (w his group -1 thats now dead) to another mountain and falls into a crevass -while alone and unroped. Takes selfies in the bottom before climbing out with several broken bones.
Sat phones for rescue via facebook.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV45UD-NxcU&feature=youtu.be
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 26, 2014 - 05:19pm PT


above link ^^
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2014 - 06:30pm PT
Jim Clipper, I thought you were referring to the search for Mallory's camera?

And thanks John Duffield for that video. It's the most incredible one since the video of the skier caught in an avalanche.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Jun 26, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
video was cool and simply cannot escape parody
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2014 - 12:19am PT
Money talks, especially in Nepal.

We now have the first officially recognized aviation assisted ascent of Mt. Everest.



KATHMANDU: Ignoring established climbing norms and values, the government today awarded Chinese mountaineer Wang Jing, 41, with an official certificate recognising her lone ascent to the top of the world. Wang, who made a number of ‘unjustifiable and disputable’ claims in writing, collected her certificate today after the officials decided to validate her claims yesterday.

In her application to the ministry, Wang claimed that she was at Camp 2 on May 10 and descended to the Base Camp on May 14, rested there for the next two days and again ascended to Camp 2 through the treacherous icefall route.

One of the icefall doctors with the Sagarmatha Pollution Control Committee laughed at her claim, saying no one crossed the treacherous route on foot after April 18 avalanche. A support staff, on condition of anonymity, also said she had flown to Camp 2 on May 10 and flew back to the Base Camp only on May 25. “She was at Camp 2 and above between May 10 and 24,” he claimed.

Joint Secretary Madhusudan Burlakoti, who heads the tourism industry division at the Ministry of Tourism and Civil Aviation, said the ministry issued a certificate to Wang, officially endorsing her May 23 Mt Everest summit .

He said the government treated Wang’s summit as a special case to show to the world there was no black year on Everest following April 18 avalanche. “It isn’t time to go by due procedures, as Wang’s summit was considered special in the time of crisis and uncertainty.”

Refusing to comment on her claims, Wang, who is here for a two-day visit, said she made it to the top with the help of Sherpas. “I thank Nepal government, Sherpas and well-wishers for supporting me to make the hardest ever summit.”


Credit: Jan


http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Wang+awarded+Everest+summit+certificate&NewsID=419865&a=3#sthash.ZAzA75iW.dpuf

This happened just a few days after the Nepal Civil Aviation and Tourism Ministry recommended that no flights be allowed above Base Camp except for rescues.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 1, 2014 - 06:56am PT
The above post is an example of why "craziness" on Everest will continue until homo sapiens are extirpated (an event the planet's other living creatures would welcome). The highest place on earth will continue to be a goal for people whose only desire is to summit regardless of the means they use to do it.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jul 1, 2014 - 07:38am PT
We at "SOE" do not condone wangjingdungs "ascent",and the lies about it, and if she shows up at base camp of "SOE", she shall be assigned to cleaning the yak pens, with a spoon...
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
Jul 1, 2014 - 07:48am PT
I was expecting Dr. All to die in that cravasse and was uncomfortable watching the video. Seems to have trained at the Ammon McNeely school of journalism.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jul 1, 2014 - 10:26am PT
In his place who knows what any of us would do after getting
our 'bell' seriously rung like that!
The memory card in a camera might survive a trip
down the glacier to be accidentaly found hundreds of years from now
and then he'd get his 15 minutes of fame after all.






Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
This story never ends, nor does the corruption and hypocrisy!

Wang Jing received a Summit Certificate from the Nepalese government even though she did not climb the entire route and lied about it (in writing) but the Italian helicopter pilot who flew her has had his flying privileges suspended even though he is responsible for the highest helicopter rescue on Everest ever (7,800 meters).



RAJAN POKHREL

KATHMANDU: Airlifting a Chinese climber above the Mt Everest base camp has landed a renowned Italian pilot in soup.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal has initiated action against Maurizio Folini, who flew Chinese mountaineer Wang Jing to Camp 2 from the Base Camp on her way to the top of Mt Everest.

Maurizio, who had carried out a record setting helicopter rescue on Mt Everest last year, was taken off Fishtail Air’s roster immediately after THT published a story on May 28 with his photo with Wang, who had tried to hide information on her chopper-aided summit.

A directive issued by flight safety standards department of CAAN to Fishtail Air states, “In reference to the news published in The Himalayan Times about helicopter flights above Mt Everest Base Camp, you are asked to remove Maurizio Folini from active flight duty until further notice.”

CAAN Director General Ratish Chandra Lal Suman said the concerned company was asked to remove Maurizio from flight roster for further investigation.

A CAAN’s probe committee led by Senior Captain Gunj Man Lama also found that Maurizio had piloted a four-seater Bell 206B III Jet Ranger helicopter to airlift Wang and American climber Cleo Weidlich in May.

“Maurizio has already left for Italy after he was taken off the roster as per the directive issued by CAAN,” sources at Fishtail Air confirmed.

Sharing his experience with an Italian portal, Maurizio recently said, “Personally, I don’t agree with this kind of mountaineering … but at that moment I stood as a pilot for a helicopter company and so I did nothing but make the flight.”

Wang has already received a certificate from the government authorising her controversial helicopter-assisted summit.

After joining Fishtail Air in 2012, Maurizio carried out the highest-ever helicopter rescue at an altitude of 7,800m, saving the life of an injured Nepali-Canadian climber on May 21 last year. He has also worked for a number of aviation companies in Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Canada and Uzbekistan. According to Fishtail Air, Foloni has 9,000 hours of flying experience and is also a mountain guide and a member of a rescue team in north Italy.

Meanwhile, CAAN sources said Fishtail’s senior captain Yogendra Mukhiya was also taken off the roster on June 5, as he failed to comply with flight safety standards while piloting a helicopter.


http://www.thehimalayantimes.com
/fullNews.php?headline=Italian+pilot+pays+price+for+airlifting+Wang&NewsID=420042#sthash.H4xR9W0F.dpuf
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 3, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
It is sad that people will sacrifce their personal integrity for fame and fortune. Whatever happened to doing something for the pure love of it?
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jul 3, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
Not the first and surely not the last Everest 'scandal'.

Climbers fly to Nepal all the time. She just flew a little further.

If anything the helicopter, and its mechanic need honorable mention. Wonder if the pilot was using one of those pressurized fully enclosed oxygen helmets?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jul 4, 2014 - 06:34am PT
If anything the helicopter, and its mechanic need honorable mention. Wonder if the pilot was using one of those pressurized fully enclosed oxygen helmets?


my thoughts as well. What an epic helicopter ride. May've been the best part. Must've been bouncing up and down in the thin air.

and where do we draw the line? Should they all walk in from Jiri? K-du? I'm guessing the floodgates have opened. Not that many years ago, getting a chopper offa EBC was pretty unique. Now, they ferry filming equipment and whatnot.

Now, you can go get several of your 14 8 thousanders in one season. Get acclimatized and fly from one to the next.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 4, 2014 - 07:40am PT
Yep, the floodgates have opened because the technology is available and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, many of the 8,000 meter peak baggers don't give a rat's ass how they do it as long as they stand on the summit.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jul 4, 2014 - 08:07am PT
The only true frontier left is "SLEDS".. Visionary pioneering right there!!!

And NO aircraft will ever be used...

On that note we at "SOE" have sent an official invitation to wangjingdung to join our team as a yak pen maintainer . But she will have to provide her own spoon..
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jul 4, 2014 - 08:36am PT
"Climbing is anarchy." Probably the best quote that would describe this activity, sport, life long pursuit of challenges, or however you view it. We all think that the way WE as individuals do things in some way is superior than how others do it. I think its our ego taking charge.
One thing I wish they regulated more on Everest is waste management. But I guess they got a lot better than they were.

PS: this summit certificate thing is funny.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 4, 2014 - 11:45am PT
They must have run out of the t-shirts and trophies..
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jul 4, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
That looks like a pretty fancy one. But you see them on the walls of the Teahouses, showing the proprietor, saved up his coin from expeditions working sherpa and is now a hotel owner. The Chinese are bigger on it, with Cho Oyu and Everest being accessible from the Chinese side.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 4, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
So SOE is going to travel there by ship and ground transport exclusively?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
This was entirely predictable


Everest avalanche victims still await relief



RAJAN POKHREL

KATHMANDU: Yawning gap between pledges and delivery is becoming unbearable for the bereaved families of the Mt Everest avalanche victims.

Three months have already passed since its announcement but the government has not provided compensation of Rs 5 lakhs each to the 16 families of avalanche victims.

Six families of the mountaineering support staff and guides who were killed in the deadliest April 18 avalanche have not even received the insurance amount of Rs 1 million. They rue that they had only received Rs 40,000 as funeral expenses from the government.

“We have not received any communication from the government or the mountaineering authorities about the compensation or insurance amount,” Pasang Lhamu, who lost her husband Then Dorjee Sherpa, 34, told this daily.

Ngima Dorjee, brother of Phurba Ongyal, 25, of Khumjung, Solukhumbu, said the poverty-stricken family had been hard pressed to make ends meet after losing Phurba, the sole bread-winner of the family of four.

Families of Dorjee Khatri, Phur Temba Sherpa, Lakpa Tenjing Sherpa and Tshiring Ongchu Sherpa, who have also not received the insurance amount, said they had been enquiring with the trekking company daily for the insurance, but to no avail. They accused the trekking company of holding their insurance amount.

Bhim Poudel, Manager at Himalayan Guides Nepal Treks and Expeditions, who employed six of the deceased for Adventure Consultants Everest Expedition and Adventurist Everest Expedition, however, said the insurance issue would be resolved soon, maybe within a week.

Apathy of the authorities concerned has also put question mark over the implementation of some of the agreed plans, such as setting-up a memorial park in Kathmandu and providing a life insurance cover of Rs 1.5 million, a Rs 500,000 raise in the existing insurance amount for the guides.

On April 22, minister Bhim Acharya had announced an increment in insurance and made a commitment that certain amount of royalty collected from the expedition teams will go to mountaineering relief fund.

“No budget has been allocated for memorial park or under other heads for addressing the concerns of bereaved Sherpa community,” an official told THT.

Joint Secretary at the Ministry of Tourism and Civil Aviation Madhu Sudan Burlakoti, who leads the tourism industry division, also passed the buck to ministry of finance and planning and evaluation division of MoTCA.

“My department has forwarded the files to the ministry of finance and planning department for further action but they have not responded yet,” he told this daily.

Burlakoti claimed that the announcement to raise the insurance amount from next season did not materalise, as expedition operators had not responded positively to the proposal. “Procedural ambiguities could be the reason for delay in releasing compensation amount,” he said.

See more at: http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Everest+avalanche+victims+still+await+relief&NewsID=422290#sthash.NeJtKPlp.dpuf
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2014 - 10:42am PT
The Nepalese government has finally released compensation money for the Nepalese families of the avalanche victims.

Meanwhile a new outrage has emerged as the Nepalese government has extended climbing permits for canceled expeditions for another five years. The problem is that they are doing it by group instead of individuals. If anyone member of a group summits Everest, then the permit extensions for all the others are automatically cancelled.

And to add final insult, because the Nepalese government recognized the ascent of Wang Jin even though she flew to Camp 2 in a helicopter, and because Cleo Weidlich also flew to Camp 2 in a helicopter although she did not summit, the permits of everyone else on their team have been cancelled.

And we think our officials are uncaring and irrational!



http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehimalayantimes.com%2FfullNews.php%3Fheadline%3DAPRIL%2BAVALANCHE%2BAFTERMATH%253A%2BGovt%2Bextends%2Bgroup%2B%2Bpermits%2Bby%2Bfive%2Byears%26NewsID%3D433318&lang=en
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Nov 24, 2014 - 11:33am PT
Maybe they were a little confused and had the outdated notions that these were actually teams of people, possibly even friends, with a sense of camaraderie, shared purpose and hell who knows even occasional bouts of self-sacrifice for the greater whole. Quaint for sure though I doubt the denizens of Supertopo will be offering much sympathy.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
I certainly hope you're not recommending that whole teams of people helicopter to Camp 2 together?

:-)
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 24, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
I certainly hope you're not recommending that whole teams of people helicopter to Camp 2 together?

I wonder if that will become the new normal? Fact is, for non climbers, all they care is, did you summit or not.

A helicopter beyond the place where a percentage of aspirants get killed, would be no more than a mere detail. Like walking in from Lukla vs walking in from Jiri. yawn

For me though, the icefall would be an integral part of the experience. Would there be that split second of time to move when it cracks? I think the adrenaline would pretty much all be gone by the time I got through. Like swimming in a school of sharks. Many people, go through the icefall multiple times on a summit bid.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 24, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
Skipping part of the journey by helo isn't like chiseling holds or putting in too many bolts, as it does not alter the adventure for a future party who wants to do it differently. People should let her do as she pleases and mind their own business. It would be nice if we could turn back the clock, and everyone could do it as Hillary and Tenzing did, but we can't.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 24, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
It will be interesting to see the percentage of people whose head assplodes when they go up two camps so quickly.
son of stan

Boulder climber
San Jose CA
Nov 24, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
Its called an ice-fall for good reason. Ice falls on people there.
Avoid it if you can.

Why should anyone care how other people climb hills?
Helicopter to the summit, snap a selfie, and fly down when
you can find one that will fly that high. I will not care.




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