WoS / PTPP, part XXVI (continued from XXV )

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Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 11, 2006 - 04:35pm PT
Here are the 207 or so messages in part 1 ( aka Wos / PTPP, part XXIV )

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=231718&f=0&b=0

Part two ( aka Wos / PTPP, part XXV )was split at about 235 posts and is found here:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=234216&f=0&b=0

Please post all future replies to this current thread.
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 04:53pm PT
Lovegasoline, In response to your post at the end of XXV, in an earlier thread I stated that right after the climb we drew a topo which, as I recall, noted every drilled placement and whether it was a bolt or rivet. A copy of this topo was given to SAR and was later adapted by Meyers/Reid for their guidebook. Iíve been the one who has keep most of the notes on WoS and I canít find the Lost Topoô. I do have a guidebook-ready topo which was probably adapted from the Lost Topoô, but it shows little more than the current guidebook shows (which is more than sufficient for anyone to do the SA). As far as noting which hooks were modified, no such topo ever existed because we never took notes on or thought to take notes on such things. When we say we modified a flake, we donít mean that we drilled a small hole at the back of the flake. We mean that we chipped crystal(s) from atop the flake to make a pad for the tip of a Leeper Narrow to sit on. A topo noting the location of modifications would be meaningless because on a repeat ascent you would not be able to identify the modifications.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:04pm PT
i should say, just in the spirit of clarifying other posts i have made, that while i personally would be uncomfortable with doing that, i do respect the fact that you are open and honest about the fact that you included that tactic in your quiver, and i think the spirit w/ which you minimized the physical impacts of those enhancements could be in many ways related to the idea of not doing it at all (although that sounds really strange).


i guess what i mean is that, while for me to do exactly what you did would for me represent a desecration of the rock itself, even if only a very small one. nevertheless, i can see how you could decide that for you, to do that would not represent anything of the sort.

that is not to say that i condone the action itself (and in fact i would love to climb in a world where such things are universally taboo), but simply that i do not now condemn you for it. i am not sure that is/was always clear (or that i myself was always clear about it).
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:08pm PT
Matt, regarding "i am not sure that is/was always clear (or that i myself was always clear about it)", I think you were very clear and that your stated view is really reasonable.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:12pm PT
Thank you, Matt. Many things are coming clearer and clearer to all of us as the dialog continues, and I do appreciate your position. Thanks for your contributions to that clarity...

even if you did just jump on MY earlier bandwagon--MINE, MINE, MINE!

Uhh, sorry.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:13pm PT
OH F*#K YOU MARK!!!!
why are all of you god fearing dickheads always so god damn nice all the time?!?






























oops-

wait-

is it the weekend yet?

i think i nedd a chill pill or something, i'm outta here...



(edit- f*#k you too ricky, "pooooop!" =)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
"Ricky?" Ok, that's it... I'm huntin' you DOWN! NOW, you'll see "nice!"

Have a great weekend, dude.
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
I have to confess that for all the brew-ha-ha that's come of our modifications I wish we could have found a way to be forthright and at the same time let people assume that there were no modifications since there are none to be found at this point in time. I will say that having to do over I wonder if we could have accomplished the same end by grinding the tip our hook back and forth and/or banging the top of the hook with a biner. I think that would have been better accepted.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:20pm PT
"let people assume that there were no modifications"


quit drinkin that canadian kool aid, biatch
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:20pm PT
OH F*#K YOU MARK!!!!
why are all of you god fearing dickheads always so god damn nice all the time?!?

Matt, just for you I'm posting some profanity if admitedly by cut-n-paste. Plus I can be nice because I've got Richard to get in your face (part of the reason I climb with him, doncha know).
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:24pm PT
Now you ARE being too nice, Mark. Check out the "Ethics" thread, and step up to the plate! We've got nothing to apologize for about this, and we've been prepared all along to take whatever came our way in these threads. Peter just posted about all the whacking, banging, and pitting they were doing on ZM. Suddenly it's a "reasonable compromise to avoid drilled placements." ZM is a GREAT route, and those guys were GREAT climbers! Are you gettin' soft on me now?
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:34pm PT
DUDE, I'm just SAYING that his ONE STUPID POST, is a reasonable rational view, not MY VIEW, or even the BEST VIEW, but a REASONABLE POSITION to hold as THINKING PERSON. DUDE, it's over between us. YOU write the COOL BOOK, get most all the PRAISE (remember you getting credit for the first solo of Horse Chute when it was ME THAT SOLOED THE PIECE OF TRASH ROUTE). And now when I use ALL CAPS it's looking like I'm just your pawn because it's become your TRADEMARK. We've done our last climb together.

--Mark

PS, I might take that back if you would reconsider idea of the 360 degree HD girdle.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:37pm PT
Snorting out my nose... getting a tissue... trying to regain control.
Roger Breedlove

Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:42pm PT
Well, now we're getting an idea of how you guys managed to spend 390 day up there!!!
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:44pm PT
Yah, well, you should. I've been wounded too, you know.

PS So what about the HD gig? We could break our own record. =)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:45pm PT
Uhh, Roger, man, you've got an extra zero there! It only FELT like 390 days. :-)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:47pm PT
It really would take us 390 days for that project. By that time we'd be so old we'd need wheelchairs--almost do already.
Roger Breedlove

Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Aug 11, 2006 - 05:49pm PT
HeeHee
MSmith

Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2006 - 06:00pm PT
Richard, it's totally doable in a season. 1.5 miles, add a third for ascents/raps, comes to only a little over 2 miles. The dikes on the south side (A5 no doubt) are going to go really slow, but the front side traverse is already up (although we'll be hauling about 14 bags, so anchors will need another 3 bolts each). A pitch and a half a day on the front and 2 days/pitch on the back, plus rest days, rain ... I figure the climb could come in under 100 days, although knowing us we better take 120 days food and water just to play it safe.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Aug 11, 2006 - 06:03pm PT
Stop, man. My sinuses are going to explode. YOU can't get any time like that off, and besides, we're both virtually cripples. Stop, you're killing me.
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