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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Glad she's OK. That 5.9 finish on that route has spit off and injured a couple of people I know. They did the right thing calling for the litter rescue.
Ignore the stupidity.
Quite difficult.. when you are drowning in it.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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When i broke my back, and had a Spinal Cord Injury, the docs told me they see more incomplete paraplegic's like me these days because of the precautions taken during the first aid process.
Good job doing the right thing. Don't listen to the naysayers. SCI is no fun. I am walking today thanks to the ski patrol's prudent actions.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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I'm glad the young lady is OK and her injuries were not any more serious.
Good work by everyone involved.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Sad to see so many rude and ignorant people casting all sorts of aspersions on the injured climber and the others in the area. Ron, in case you can't put it together, I'm calling you an as#@&%e.
Best wishes to the injured climber. Good on the folks who were at the scene for taking the conservative route. Whit possible spinal injuries, one should always be overly cautious.
one more thing…
You think the people who write emergency medicine curricula are in cahoots with service providers to maximize profit?
Yes, in some cases I think that er docs do thing to pad the bill. I believe that in some cases that this is systematic and that procedures and processes are put in place in order to maximize profits. I am not trying to demonize all docs or ERs, but know of examples where maximizing profit and minimizing liability are put before optimizing patient care.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nice to hear that the young woman is doing well, and that all proper precautions were taken.
A few years ago, there were two accidents at Josh on New Year's Day that were quite similar. One you never heard about. One you did hear about. In both instances, a piece of pro about 15' off the ground pulled during a fall. In both instances the climber's hit the ground, striking their heads. One suffered a dislocated ankle. One died.
Guess who was wearing a helmet?
i disagree. i WAS there and it was clear to me she needed to be in a litter to be lowered
And who are we supposed to believe? Someone on the scene, or somebody on the Internets in Nervaduh?
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willm
Social climber
Oakland
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I was there. Two things worth chiming in about:
1. The guy in her party (Clay?) who climbed up to assess the situation made it pretty clear that she was exhibiting pain symptoms of a back injury. No one involved was prepared to make the call to lower and take on the responsibility if she did have a serious back injury. She was reportedly dry-heaving and quite disoriented. I was personally more worried about the head trauma but it sounds like neither were of clinical significance.
2. The ranger who responded to the call instructed us NOT to set up a fixed line because it would "all have to be double checked by SAR anyway". He was actually kind of a jerk when told that there was a bolted anchor directly at the top of the accident, stating, "I know what's up there, we do this all the time".
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Hmmmmm well of im going to be labelled an as#@&%e,, should i really tell you what i think?
Since you asked, I would say you should keep you fingers off the keyboard about 90% of the time. It is becoming more difficult to avoid your spew, and the fraction of your posts that I read are mostly quite banal.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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The fact that she was on a ledge changes everything. My comment about lowering would only be aimed at a victim hanging in a harness on a half pitch climb. lower to the ground in that typ of circumstance and then stabalize and transport. On multi pitch lower to nearest ledge if possible. nothing good can come from hanging in a harness for hrs...
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Feb 12, 2014 - 12:27am PT
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A public misconception with why a level of response is determined for what ultimately ends up being a relatively minor outcome is commonplace.
Ron, I understand what you are implying. But realize, when Rangers and SAR get notified that someone has been injured and is still mid-pitch, they have to assume the worse, every single time.
Call it fear of liability, call it erring on the side of the caution but that is the way it is and always will be. That culture and approach is also carried over to patient care, is it just a bruise or is it more? You simply don't know.
Of course SAR shouldn't be called every time someone takes a lead fall and sustains bruises, but it sounds like it appeared much worse than that, to both her friends and her.
Deciding whether to lower someone or keep them where they're at can be a tricky decision with lots of grey. If the victim is unconscious and/or on steep terrain with little to no obstacles in the path of lowering, I would no doubt lower. If internal bleeding is present or suspected, being suspended in an upright, or relatively upright position could be a major game changer...These decisions are never easy, but the best thing you can do is take a WFR course, attempt to think with a clear head, and get help...
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Feb 12, 2014 - 12:53am PT
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I think about the human element. You get one chance to prevent paralysis or aggravating the injury. Given the MOI and the chief complaints, the only responsible thing to do is to take precautions and immobilize. Liability is a concern, but the bigger concern is to prevent doing further harm.
The notion that calling SAR = big bill --not true. The vast majority of SAR teams do not charge for their services. Generally helicopter is only charged to insurance, not individuals. In my 15 years on a SAR team, we have had 2 people charged for the helo ride. In both cases, the SAR team determined that a helicopter was not necessary, but the victim insisted and thus paid. Ambulance bills are generally charged. A person can refuse transport once they are in the parking lot. Some do refuse and are asked to sign a refusal form. I don't know what the stats are in the backcountry. Our EMS affiliate has up to 50% of their calls result in refusals. These people are not charged. If someone rides the ambulance, their insurance is charged. In my county, our EMS is paid for with levy dollars. If you are a county resident, you are never charged for the ride. Your property taxes cover that.
Backcountry SAR has a very different business model than 911 highway wrecks.
In many cases, the Sheriff or law enforcement has the option to bill for a rescue. That is seldom done unless there is complete disregard for safety. This varies based on jurisdiction. We have never charged for a rescue. We have charged twice for a helicopter ride that people demanded without sufficient medical justification.
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