Yup - another school shooting

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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 16, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
The first mass school killing was with a bomb.



The school exploded at 8:45 a.m. on May 18. At that point, after killing his wife and destroying his farm, Kehoe hopped inside an explosive-laden truck and drove to the school. Thirty minutes after the initial attack, while conversing with the superintendent, he detonated the truck bomb, killing himself, the superintendent, and a few others. Later, investigators found that a short circuit in Kehoe’s wiring was the only thing that stopped the attack from claiming more lives, as “more than 500 pounds of dynamite and several sacks of gunpowder were found under a portion of the building that remained standing.” If the explosion had gone as planned, Bath’s entire downtown might have been destroyed.

Like the Newtown school shooting, the Bath bombing was a major news story. Ellsworth writes, “I think we had the greatest demonstration of American sympathy ever awarded a grief stricken community. Thousands and thousands of cars stayed in line for hours. I have a gas station one-half mile west of Bath on the main road to Lansing, where there was a double row of traffic all day. In the afternoon it took about four hours to get three miles, but I don't remember … hearing a single horn sounded. It was like a great funeral procession. Everyone's heart was filled with sympathy.”

But the attention was short-lived. In an interview this summer with the Christian Science Monitor, Arnie Bernstein, author of 2009’s Bath Massacre: America’s First School Bombing, noted that “there wasn't a media frenzy like today. The media came in and left. Three days after it happened, Lindbergh took off and flew to Paris, and that part of it was over.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/18/bath_school_bombing_remembering_the_deadliest_school_massacre_in_american.html
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
ok zinger, you got conned here. How many americans have you met? I've seen beggars in other countries such as Britain, Australia, France, Belgium, Hungary, Italy, and more. People have bombed other countries, like, well name any middle eastern country... Europe, how about Yemen? What about the sarin gas attack in Japan?
What about the dude who shot up all the folks in Norway? People like to point at Australia as a prime example of what gun control should be here. Well, that was prompted by some mass shootings. Great. The whole country gave up their guns. Did that end violent crime there? No. It more or less ended mass shootings I suppose. They don't seem to be the magnet for lunatics that we're becoming. It's not such a hot target for terrorism as we are, I guess.
How about the African continent? Maybe you'd like to address anything that's going on there?
Yet here, I've been given an education that works (yeah, I bet someone makes a wiseass remark, ha ha), free rides when mine broke down in the middle of nowhere, and a helping hand on a few occasions as have so many others here that your generalizations don't add up, and I found them sort of offensive. Much like a lot of the repetitive banter going on throughout this entire thread and the others before it, probably the ones after it.

We DO have a problem... it isn't the guns, it isn't the money. It's the stubborn bullheaded f*#king attitudes of the morally righteous on both sides of the issue, so absolutely convinced that THEIR way is the ONLY way, that no reasonable compromise can ever be reached.

Both sides know this is what they can expect from the other side. The extremes are as predictable as sun, and the balance is forever in danger of tipping from "do nothing" to "take everything" and, quite frankly, I'm just getting f*#king tired of it. And tired of generalizations like yours that simply lump me in with "you americans" without the slightest clue of anything, other than "I got conned".





And for the rest of the debate, the rest of the thread, this gun thread, that gun thread, all the rest of the gun threads.... meh. Good f*#king luck with that.

99.9%? You've actually MET 1000 people from this site? Are you counting people in portions? 1/2 a people? 1/10th a people? I'm thinking your math is invalid.

How much of this country did you see? Maybe you should have gotten out more, and met some better people. Honesty and integrity are here, just like i'm sure they exist wherever you're at. Don't pretend it's your private little utopia though, 'cause then you're just fooling yourself.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
because we are not scum.
You're really not making a good case for that.
Nor are you making a good case for being ripped off. I am picturing you spending a lot of money on a girl. She realizes you are a whack job and decides she wants nothing to do with you. You then think she conned you and you feel very sorry for yourself.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
Wow. None as bad as the ol' USA. So all the ethnic war stuff that's gone on in the African continent... not near as bad as a few shootings here? Huh...

It's not us that's f*#ked, it's YOUR perspective. Yeah, we got some problems. Name a place that doesn't.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
Hey DMT... you ever question the sensibility of teaching your kid to solo?
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
Well that's thoughtful of you.

I only ask out of curiosity, not to provoke you. I mean, you're teaching your kid to take a calculated risk... right? But it increases the odds that she'd get injured that way far more than the risk of her becoming a victim of a mass shooting.

I plan to teach my kids how to climb (albeit with rope) and how to shoot. My guns stay locked in a safe, out of their hands. They won't get violent videos and stuff that devalues life. Instead, they'll have the chance to hunt and see firsthand that guns are not a game, a joke, or a simple toy. And if they don't learn that, then they won't be able to use them. Period.

Is that not part of the self-regulation you're advocating?

Oh, and zinger... get help dude. You need it.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
added to above post.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
I'm surprised it's survived this long. The constitution was designed so that it could be changed as needed. So far, the 2nd has stood. I think primarily because there's room for interpretation.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
If you can't get Democrats all to support gun control, what makes you think there's the stomach to repeal the Second Amendment?

You may as well pray to Jesus to bring you a Unicorn for Christmas.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
And another thing DMT, over in some other thread I saw you advocating the free use of other people's land. So over there you want freedom, and here you want control.
Because you view this as a public safety issue, whereas private property rights... shouldn't be?

zinger, good luck. There are good honest people here, they're not hard to find. It's the positive attitude that'll do the most for you. Pessimist is my lot, and I don't recommend it.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
Its kind of sad really, the USA could be a great place if the people where a different race maybe
Cause there's no Chinese here? or Africans? or Egyptians? or Iranians? or Mexicans? or Australians? or Kiwis?

I here Chinese climbers are all good.
And that's always been the measure of a society

Haven't really heard of Chinese kids killing each other at school.
No, there the middle aged men do it with cleavers
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/world/asia/13china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
Really Ron, a little surprised. You know, the way people like to change things and pass new laws to restrict things and screw them up. Can you imagine what a modern redesign of the 2nd would even look like? Good god, it'd be worse than trying to decipher the tax code. Just look at what California's done, fer godssake! ugh.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
On topic? Ha! It's a CLIMBING FORUM. Ok ok, I'll leave now.

Right after saying, in general, I think we've got plenty of laws already. People don't know how to mind them, interpret them, or properly enforce them, or when to change them.

In short, there's too many idiots because the healthcare system has actually worked and allowed them to thrive. Bring back Darwin! We need more awards, not more protections from ourselves.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Dec 16, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
WOW..this thread is a real deal sh**show!!!
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
Ron, I hope you mean corporal punishment. Schools have never been able to kill their students.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Dec 17, 2013 - 10:34am PT
Well worth your time to watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VDLrlihjlc&feature=share&list=FLfLEzCf7IXmoltvjF34YwAA

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Dec 17, 2013 - 10:46am PT
As yet, this shooter didn't succeed in killing ANYONE. A shotgun is a piss-poor weapon for a mass shooting, the effective range, magazine capacity and weight of ammo is prohibitive, so why didn't this law abiding adult buy a large-capacity semi-automatic rifle? - BECAUSE HE COULDN'T LEGALLY BUY ONE IN COLORADO!

Colorado legislators saved lives in this school.

TE
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2013 - 11:21am PT
Colorado legislators saved lives in this school.
well no wonder they were recalled.
JonA

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Dec 17, 2013 - 11:23am PT
I grew up in the late 80's/early 90's. My friends and I loved guns. We would spend hours shooting Tin cans with our pellet guns in the woods. My father had several rifles and a friend's father had a revolver. None of these guns or the ammo was locked up but we never even considered touching these guns for fear of the beatings we would receive. We did plenty of other things that warrented beatings, but we genuinely feared that we wouldn't survive the beatings unleashed if we were ever caught playing with guns.

I received my first shotgun for my 14th birthday. It was a single shot 20 gauge. My buddy got a pump action 12 gauge. I kept my gun and ammo in my closet and cleaned it about once a week whether I'd fired it or not. We never fired our guns in town because that was illegal and more importantly, we were told not to. Instead, we would go rabbit and squirrel hunting on our grandarents farm. My father made me clean and eat everything I shot. I, quite honestly, hated this and soon lost my fascination with guns. In fact, this all took place before my 16th birthday so I've never technically had a hunting license or taken a gun safety class.

Violence in movies was tame at the time. I remember walking out of the theater during Terminator 2 because I couldn't handle the gratuitous violence (although I never admitted this to my buddies). The most violent video game around was Mike Tyson's punchout which
Would probably be rated G today.

I guess my point is that I had a lot of freedom around guns growing up but my parents disciplined me and I wasn't exposed to a lot of violence in the media. Today, parents seem unwilling to discipline their kids and violence in the media is ubiquitous. So what do we do? We blame all of our problems on guns. This is like taking an abused and violent pitbull and declawing him and removing all his teeth. Does this really solve the problem?

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 17, 2013 - 11:25am PT
Yes!
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