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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 15, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
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Bruce...They did the tax thing with cigarettes here in california to discourage smoking...Not sure if it's working as i read smoking among teens was on the rise but it's a good idea to tax the hell out of it...unless you are a responsible gun owner...I'm off to hunt elk with Ron. .It's .177 season in northern Nevada...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 15, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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Philo writes:
"Here is a thought.
Rather than ban guns, tax the sh#t out of them. "
So you're OK with kids being killed at school, as long as the government gets a taste of the financial action?
You worship the government worse than those fundamentalist Pentacostal snake-handlers worship Jesus. Pray to Washington to cure what ails you. If that doesn't work, just pray more and pray harder to Washington.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 15, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
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If deer were made of nicely marbled Ribeye or Porterhouse, I'd make it a point to take my limit every year.
If it's lean, tough meat I'm looking for, I'll pick up some cheap carne asada at Chuy's Carniceria.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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Dec 15, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
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Seems that 'twould be difficult to thumb one's own nose at one-self. Sorta like the sound of one hand clapping, I 'spose.
Speaking of Hasselhoff, he had better watch out for trophy hunters seeking that luxurious man-pelt
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Dec 15, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
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Hunting? Really?
Guns are the tool. And the tool is not going to disappear from society.
How about we ask why this is happening, and happening so often, and start dealing with the root cause and the symptoms?
Why do we ignore signs and symptoms of mental illness and say that nothing can be done until a person is a "threat to themselves or others"?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/health/iyw-how-to-cope-with-mental-illness/index.html?iref=allsearch
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 15, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
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I've noticed that the biggest critics of hunting seem to know the least about it.
I haven't hunted in years, but still eat meat, a lot of chicken, but still some red meat.
Anybody that is a carnivore has no business putting down hunting. It is an efficient way to obtain protein, a challenging sport, and carries on an American tradition of self reliance.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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Dec 15, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
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Dave, while I agree that a mental health approach is important in reducing gun violence in this country, I am uncertain that the banning of certain individuals from owning guns is any more palatable than banning guns altogether. What entity determines one's fitness for firearm ownership? What if you get banned but all those around you are still permitted to own them?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 15, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
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I disagree Ron, the tradition of self reliance and initiative is stronger in North America which is populated by people who weren't satisfied with the old world and went looking for better (including Indians).
Just three Americans are easily responsible for more innovations in modern firearms than all the other designers put together;
Sam Colt
Hiram Maxim
and the big one John M Browning
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Dec 15, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
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Close the thread. It's been Ron'd.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Dec 16, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
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Shootout at OK Corral, gets replaced by shootout at Arapahoe High. For Christmas, for all of the kids on your list, a bulletproof vest.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/1214/Colorado-school-shooting-Armed-guards-the-answer
As they investigate the latest school shooting in the United States – Friday at Arapahoe High School in Centennial, Colo. – one thing is clear to law enforcement officials there: The presence of an armed deputy sheriff on regular duty at the school was the key factor in preventing more deaths and injuries
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 16, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
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The presence of an armed deputy sheriff on regular duty at the school was the key factor in preventing more deaths and injuries.
And there's your obvious answer (as is the known presence of sky marshals on airliners).
The problem with these gun-free zones is that they are only gun-free until the whack job shows up. And then, only the whack job is armed.
You have a fork in the road here. Either the frequency of these incidents is deeply troubling, or (tragic as each one is) the frequency is not too terribly troubling. I assume from the responses on this thread that everybody is agreed that these incidents are deeply troubling. So, we need to get serious about what the real problem is and address it as best we can.
So, like with inner-city schools, we need to recognize that all schools (and malls) need an armed and trained presence. Then the whack jobs will at least know going in that they are going to be stopped before they get very far into their spree, and they ARE going to die.
There will be some deterrent effect, once the knowledge becomes widespread that schools and malls are no longer gun-free zones. And the smaller number of whack jobs that are still going to do this sort of thing anyway WILL be stopped quickly, before they can get very far into their spree.
If you're serious about protecting school kids, then instead of a Quixotic campaign that has no chance of success, you have to think of each situation tactically. Get trained people into each school to evaluate the situation, and put armed and trained boots on the ground as appropriate to address plausible scenarios.
And then, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, just accept the fact that you cannot in principle foresee or respond to every possible threat; and innocent people, some of them kids, are going to die.
Haters gonna hate. Killers gonna kill. Sweeping gun control doesn't materially address those facts. Better to get to the bottom of what makes somebody even think to do something so atrocious than to fixate on his implement of choice. Remember, Australia touts a "win," but the same number of people are getting mass-murdered; only now they are getting set on fire instead of shot.
 Build a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. --
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 16, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
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When the video game starts shooting back, it's no longer fun.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 16, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
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I think Anderson mentioned "velocity", which at 1,200fps is quicker than many .22lr.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 16, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
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At the muzzle, or maybe across the room, a well-placed 8grn .177 @ 1,200fps shot certainly can kill someone.
I wouldn't think of using something like that for self defense, no matter what ( it'd make a more effective weapon as a club ).
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
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As a result, Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said at a briefing Saturday afternoon, the heavily-armed shooter realized he was about to be confronted by an armed officer, and he took his own life. What I'm wondering is why the sheriff didn't stop this before it happened, seeing as how he knew what the guy was thinking.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 16, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
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Insane.
The shooters are indeed!
As are the people that caused us to put sky marshals on planes.
You do what you have to do to take out insane people, IF you really believe that the threat is real and needs to be addressed.
Of course, if you really don't think that the threat is all that pressing, then you respond differently. As I said, fork in the road.
Either take it seriously, so respond in a way that will directly address the threat; or recognize that such shootings are a blip on the national radar.
Sweeping gun control accomplishes neither.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Dec 16, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
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http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?id=8942960
Brian this happened a year ago in Tollhouse. It does happen, but it is rare. Comparing it to a .22 is pretty stupid though. Yeah stopping power is a big deal and .22 have been known for bouncing off of bones. My brother was accidently shot by his friend as a kid with a .22, the bullet entered in his pelvis (Back)then bounced up through intestines and back out his back by his Lumbar. It missed his spine and he recovered, but no way in hell would a pellet do this. Not sure what any of this has to do with school shootings but here it is. And Ron knows about stopping power as any hunter does.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 16, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
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Violence thru the media has been romanticized and pounded into every American's thick skull...it's in vogue to bring a gun to school and shoot the sh#t out of everyone...Copycat crimes...Maybe it's time to brainwash our kids some more with anti-gun classes and make it not cool to play with guns...?
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