Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:03am PT
|
Lynnie- What did your friend say about the poor and the sick? His usually more vocal followers seem to be silent(or adamantly opposed) on this topic...
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:04am PT
|
Dave Kos,
It looks to me like that company, you used to work for, needs a little direct competition!
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:18am PT
|
Wade Icy, he took care of them.
And I really didn't need to say anything, he can take care of himself. Just annoying when people make comments that are not based on knowledge. It's like me telling someone how to climb the Nose. :)
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:20am PT
|
Just annoying when people make comments that are not based on knowledge
So if someone disagrees with you or your friends, it is slander. Give me a break
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:28am PT
|
You think the Obamacare website is a disaster? I've worked on several major government/defense IT major projects that were 10X the budget of the Obamacare site. All of them complete disasters. And we keep throwing money at them, without question.
Why would Obamacare be any different. Same corrupt government, different market segment( Kind of).
The IT integration required by Obamacare is on a scale never seen before. I am sure our gov't will issue huge contracts to only the most efficient and upstanding contractors.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:30am PT
|
Snowmassguy, not what I meant. Just that this thread seemed to me to be about the very debatable (and for good reason ) topic of healthcare. What the heck does jesus have to do with it? If you read Matthew 5,6 and 7 you'd see that jesus took care of the poor and the sick and encouraged people to not make possessions, but people, their priority. :)
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:40am PT
|
Personally, I think the root of the problem we face is due to folks not taking care of them selves combined with an attitude towards entitlements that is out of control.
Sure, smoke, drink, eat like sh**, live a sedate lifestyle and game the sytem for entitlements that are YOUR INTRINSIC RIGHT. It is the American way!!!!
|
|
rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:45am PT
|
If you were a 27 year old billionaire, you might have a different opinion.
Never ask a man what should be done with another. Ask him what should be done with him, for he is the only person who he truly knows.
Dave
P.S. Building that mansion in Aspen provided the local builds with jobs. Would it have been better to just give them money outright, and not demand a days work from them for it? Nothing is simple.
|
|
Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
|
I chimed in on the other thread briefly, and will do so again here with my small business perspective.
As a country we pay something like 17% of GDP now for health care. Most of the countries who have socialized, or single payer systems, seem to spend 8-10%. So for me, a single payer system is a no brainer. Health care costs continue to go up and up and the very high cost already is impeding the ability of people like me to grow my business, and I expect it will only get worse. Small companies fund growth with retained earnings. If retained earnings are lower so is the ability to grow.
On our company policy the premiums for myself and an infant, for this coming year, together are somewhere on the order of $26,500. Where is the affordable part of the ACA? I guess it's meant to be affordable for the poor, and that's good. The rest of us are still being bled dry though.
For those of you complaining about the prospect of paying for health care for others in a socialized system, those who have insurance already do pay for others in the form of higher premiums because hospitals, who can't turn people away (nor should they), pass along those expenses to people who can pay.
Single payer and 9% of GDP would be great. The problem with that idea though is it will gore the insurance companies, doctors, pharm companies, hospital corporations, and litigators. All of these groups are very powerful and so it is the rest of us who will continue to be gored.
|
|
Binks
climber
Uranus
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
|
i'm in favor of free healthcare. it would be great to see all those insurance companies and people making 100's of millions off of other people's suffering scream. f*#k them, they are way too powerful and making way too much money for what they actually provide.
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
|
Sorry for posting a pic of you and your GF Hedgy
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
|
What the heck does jesus have to do with it? If you read Matthew 5,6 and 7 you'd see that jesus took care of the poor and the sick and encouraged people to not make possessions, but people, their priority. :)
Lynne, I believe you. That's why it's so maddening to hear Jesus' republican followers be so dead set against giving, sharing and what they call "socialism".
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
|
I am neither a follower of Jesus or a Republican and do not support Obama or his busted health care scheme.
Developing a health care system that works will never occur unless people take off their partisan blinders and work together for mutually beneficial outcome.
When big government tries to cram a broken politically motivated plan down the throat of the middle class, failure will ensue.
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
|
Fixed it for you.
BS, lies, deception, bait and switch....yep that is the solution Hedge.
Wait, I thought Obamacare was the solution? What happened?
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
|
I REALLY do not know why somebody felt the need to start yet another thread on this subject. I could speculate, but why bother? After this post I don't intend to have anything to do with this thread, as this is just ot thread proliferation, and this EXACT topic is already being discussed elsewhere.
Those who keep posting here might ask: How MANY ot threads do we really need on the subject of health care?
I know, let's have at least a dozen, and then everybody can keep posting to all of them, and then all of them can fill up the front page, and then we can become a health care forum instead of a climbing forum. Yeah, that's it. Go lemmings, go!
|
|
hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
|
Hell yeah! I'm writting in Donini for prez in 2016!!
|
|
Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
|
Socialism levels the field to lower middle class....and the poor go wanting.
One only needs to visit a Socialist society to see this in action.
You mean socialist societies like Denmark and Norway? I don't think you understand what a socialist society really is.
The happiest people in the world apparently reside in northern Europe, according to a 156-nation survey published by the United Nations Sustainable Development Solutions Network.
Released Monday, the 2013 World Happiness Report ranks the happiest countries around the globe, with Denmark, Norway and Switzerland leading the pack. Among North American countries, Canada took sixth place, while Mexico (16) slightly outranked the U.S. (17)...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/world-happiness-report-happiest-countries_n_3894041.html
Curt
|
|
Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
|
And standing in the way of a solution? the repub party
Hedge, for the most part I find the way you deliver your messages counterproductive. All you do is alienate people. But the substance of this message of yours is spot on.
As for whoever broached the idea that socialized medicine will start a slippery slope to concentration camps....are you serious? Really? Look at all of the countries with socialized medicine, spending half of what we do. Do you see any concentration camps? If so, please point them out so we can all recognize you are right and that socialized medicine in this country will also lead to concentration camps.
Edited to add:
We've already had socialized medicine in the form of Medicare and Medicaid, and socialized retirement in the form of Social Security, for many decades. If the socialism slope is so slippery why don't we have concentration camps here now?
|
|
craig morris
Trad climber
la
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
|
Why not a price to buy in to Medicare that would have a sliding scale as you near retirement. this would bring in younger\healthy people to pad costs, and competition.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Nov 15, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
|
Some facts for spinning Republican minds who are hardly able to read them
 USA compared to five "socialist" countries:
Concentration camps - defined as camps where the government are keeping people outside ordinary rules of law, torturing them and so on
USA: Guantanamo
Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Switzerland: No such camps
Percentage of the population kept in prison
USA: 716/100.000
Switzerland: 82/100.000
Norway: 71/100.000
Denmark: 68/100.000
Sweden: 67/100.000
Finland: 60/100.000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
Intentional homicide 2012
USA: 4,7/100.000
Finland: 2,2/100.000
Sweden: 1,0/100.000
Switzerland: 0,7/100.000
Norway: 0,6/100.000
Denmark: 0,5/100.000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Why is there so much more freedom in the countries that Republicans see as "socialist" countries than there is in the USA?
Why is the present American ideology creating this internal US horror?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!