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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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mastadon, maybe someday when we run into each other in Tahoe we could have a discussion... and perhaps include Julie...
my editions of Mountain are packed away for the epic remodel which is about to fall on my home... but if anyone has their's handy they can look up:
Brugger, Julie: Mountain 13, page 10; Mountain 58, page 15
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Mr Ed,
Lemmeno when you're gonna be around next.
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Cool thread.
Mastadon, Ed, speaking of Tahoe,
how about we set a date before season's end
rendezvous at Traveler's, second pitch
and both of you OW specialists school me
on Travelers Buttress ala chicken wings
and arm bars?
My interest: send the OW with minimal grunts
and scrapes. No shoulder strains, pure style via
technique. Using OW skills!!
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Goatboy, of course my reaction to the British Invasion reflects poorly on me, not on them (the Brits). Oh, and thanks for the way cool photo from Vedauwoo and thanks to Footloose for that photo, too. Please don't ask if I've ever done Traveler's.
Gonzo, I didn't know you got up there often. Thanks for the beta on Lucille. I'm on it! (not!)
Oh, and really next Monday/Tuesday I'll talk about a climb I did even if it's not OW. Or not.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Darwin/ Gonzo, Lucille is only an invert for those under a certain height somewhere around 5'6-7"
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Pratt old school and Pamela new school. Roy nails it!
I have Never seen anyone climb like her when she is on, and she is On, at the top of her game, right now!!
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Eeyonkee, I think I read over on mp.com that you just did Crack of Fear recently. So my question is, do YOU consider it OW, or is it a shallow flaring chimney? I tried chickenwinging that thing and backed off because it never felt stable (that and the fact that it was over my head). Around the corner Wolf's and Tiger are definitely OW, but this seemed to be a different animal altogether.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
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Yeah, Ydp...just did it on Saturday. I felt compelled to post up about it because every single picture for the route showed climbers doing it right-side-in when, to me, it's so obviously a left-side-in wide crack. If you do it left-side-in, you can rest on chicken wings practically anywhere, although most of the actual advancing upwards moves involve what I would call armbars. Your feet should be in a heel-toe position most of the time.
I would call this offwidth, but you might not be wrong to call it a flared squeeze chimney. I don't believe there is a hard boundary between the two. By the way, my partner on Saturday, Angelo Angelini, thought it was the hardest climb that he had ever done.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Thanks!, any pics of the left-side-in ascent?
edit: I think most people think that when it leans left, then that means right-side-in, because your feet are on the lower angle wall for outside the crack features. That may be what sucks most people into doing it that way.
edit2: Did you do Tiger's Tooth? I saw Bridwell flash that in about 5 min. in the early 70's.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
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No pictures. I'm sure that you are right about most people trying it right-side-in because the face is then lower angle for your feet. It's just that this is the very opposite of what you should do. Notice how if you were right-side-in you essentially can't armbar because there is nothing for your left arm to pull on. I've never done Tiger's Tooth.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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His name has been mentioned... I was always impressed with Mark Klemens. The lad never whined and stuff like Cream and Steppin' Out are nice test pieces. He did have a rather negative opinion of foreigners however...
Of course if you are Werner...
"I free soloed all three of em
The Zone, Steppin' Out, and Cream.
They're all the same when do em that way ...."
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Yeah, nothing for the left arm, that sounds like what I remember. I guess that left-side-in also lets you rest your back on the left side and use that for friction? Tiger's Tooth seems like it would be "right up your alley".
Oh well, thanks for answering my questions.
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Frank Sanders
Trad climber
Devils Tower. Wyoming
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Who was it that put up the FIRST 5.13 Offwidth, in this Country, anyway?????
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Grug I did it right side in (I think) back I '78? With doug cairns...
I've also done Tiger's tooth. Climbed it on a cold day trip from Laramie to pickup shoes at komito's. might have been November. It went very fast, as we (will gilmer and i, maybe he wee fox too) were hypothermic.
Frank,you of a people, have to ask? You were on the very first attempt!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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^^^
Ah, but the eternal question: Is Squeeze a sub-set of OW? Or are chim-chim-a-knees, including the squeezeez, their own thing?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Inserting ones self into a human sized meat grinder slot!
Hey, what you do with Jeremy's mom is your business!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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hahaha.
That's funny!
Based on my personal experience and on interpretation of record over the years I'd say Offwidth and Squeeze Chimney are two different sizes; so no, squeeze is not a subset of offwidth.
Both techniques are currently circumscribed by the modern vernacular of "wide" which may start as low as fist/wide hands and likely runs all the way to full-body chimney.
I'd say chicken wing is more often a component of the tight squeeze toolbox therefore just a bit out of offwidth category, but oddly, not to be completely struck from the list of potential offwidth techniques! This because, cruxes are often about transition from size A to size B.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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It's all Wyde crack climbing, you poindexters!! Even some stemming!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Show me the squeeze chimney that uses no armbars or chicken wings. It's All Offwidth!
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