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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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has anybody repeated Shipoopi's Excalibur o.w. pitches free?
not that I know of, but since it is in California, it doesn't count anyway... apparently...
...Grug's Generator Crack solo fail is an example of what can happen when you put it out there like he did for so many years... fortunately he survived it...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Hey Perry,
Do you remember telling me a story about an early ascent of The Rostrum done by two of your compatriots? What I found entertaining is that you said one of them only wanted the offwidth pitches, required only the pieces he needed for the anchor, none for the leads, and he smoked a joint before he led each of them? Did I get that right?
Point being, other than to flesh out a fun anecdote, is that we do get people who specialize in the wide. Dick Cilley comes to mind. Of course he climbs everything but when I think of Dick I think of top roping and offwidth. Most of the climbs I did with Billy Russell were fist, OW, or chimney and he always shined there and these were the only things that he really demanded to lead. JayBro has chimed in. Walling always had a bit of an offwidth fetish.
I think of Peter Haan as and offwidth climber; even though Left Side of the Hourglass crux is essentially an undercling. Klemens same. Certain people did make their name climbing wide stuff, albeit they were typically well-rounded to boot. Any of us really getting after it in Yosemite during the late 70s had to climb wide in order to get up the more coveted long climbs; just part of the game.
But with the specialists, an extra passion kicks in. I don't know who the best were, but people such as those whom I've mentioned were among the most passionate and that's perhaps what makes them special as individuals.
Cheers,
Roy
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2013 - 07:44am PT
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Perry, I DID say I was sorry about those tube chocks didn't I? One of the low points in my climbing efforts...
By the way, my vote is for no more Pipeline in this thread.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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As Greg mentioned upthread, off width climbing can be considered in terms protection or lack thereof and the development of big cams has certainly changed the game.
Chuck Pratt's virtually unprotected lead of Twighlight Zone comes to mind as representative of cutting edge for it's time and still hard to imagine today so he get's my vote for best off width climber of the pre big cam era.
Mark Klemens and Dale Bard stand out as pushing the Valley off width game and Werner's solo of TZ exemplifies mastery of the craft.
I've watched that video of Alex on the overhanging Indian Creek rig a few times and that pretty much defines how big cams have changed the off width game.
Best off width climber ever?
All things considered, Pratt was as good as it gets.
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MH2
climber
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Tarbuster says
But with the specialists, an extra passion kicks in. I don't know who the best were, but people such as those whom I've mentioned were among the most passionate and that's perhaps what makes them special as individuals.
Amen. To get technical about it, there is the person, the climb, what the person brings to the climb, and what the climbs brings out in the person. And after that, a lot of talk.
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Chuck Grossman. Hands down. He was stacking hexes in desert monsters years ago. His Utah routes are that of legend. And I was there a few times. Craig comes in behind by an inch. They were friends and actually the whole idea of the expanding tube came out of Chuck and Craig looking at one of those old door frame chin up bars.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Greg, I just read the thread about the Lost Arrow, and some of your other exploits. Zany is as zany does, bro . .
Brad
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2013 - 10:03am PT
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Just spent a wonderful evening of conversation with my wife and Tarbuster, in which we talked about this thread a bit. The fact is, Roy was (probably still is) an excellent wide crack climber, but, as he pointed out, in the 1970s and even 1980s for the most part, climbers did not specialize. Good offwidth and chimney skills were just something you needed to have in your repertoire to be a good, overall climber - at least on granite and particularly in Yosemite. That wss certainly my take as well.
I started this thread mainly because I just started climbing offwidth again (well, since my Lucille preparation in 2011). I spent a couple of weekends recently at Vedauwoo hanging out with Jaybro and Pamela. I was expecting to see Pamela be good at all sorts of exotic techniques that were not even in my repertoire. I guess what I wasn't so much expecting is that she was SO much better than me at my strong suits of armbars and chicken wings. In retrospect, I can see that I was merely a good wide crack climber through the 5.11 range but am basically not a 5.12 climber.
A theme brought out (rightly I think) in this thread is balancing the pure technical skills of a Pamela Pack or the Wide Boyz with the history of the genre before big cams when big balls (back then, hardly any women were even in the game, but I might be wrong) were as important as technical prowess.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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That's a significant inflection point!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Grug wrote:
(back then, hardly any women were even in the game, but I might be wrong)
And Tami had provided upthread:
Grug you missed JULIE BRUGGER from yer list.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2192765&msg=2192865#msg2192865
It would be great to hear about JULIE BRUGGER in the matter of Offwidths, Tami had mentioned her to me previously...
also important to note that 5.11 was once a "top grade" though now things have progressed, they had to progress through the grades... what constituted a 5.13 at a time when there were very few 5.12s is impossible to know, the "absolute" difficulty of climbing being a dodgy concept... (though I've provided some ideas of what sets the limits).
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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As for best, given our thin consensus, it looks like it may just be the Pratt and Pamela show!
Pratt old school and Pamela new school.
The boys from The Black Canyon likely deserving at the least, honorable mention in old-school category.
Now we just need an impresario to put together a showdown between Shanti Pack and the British Wide Boyz and get this thing done ya'll.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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I just talked to Julie Brugger just a couple days ago and I almost never use the "N" word but you will NEVER get Julie to join in on this forum. NEVER EVER!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Them's the breaks.
But I bet a nickel you could sweet talk her offwidth resume into some sort of presentable form for us?!
(I know ... just thought I'd try).
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Following up on Grug's last post about how good Pamela is at the complete OW repetoire. I'm 60, chunky and could no more invert than flap my arms and fly off the surface of the Earth. So, for you top end inverters and leavitators, are there subtle not very steep flares that cause as much trouble as the radical inverts etc required on the Forever Wars, Century Crack and Trench Warfare?
I seem to be the only person posting to admit that bizarre national pride got me bugged about how good the Brits (Whittaker and Randall) were. I have to admit to thinking "But how would they do on Basket Case?". Extrapolating from Gug's post they and Pamela, would do fine, and I'll take my crow with salt.
Darwin
(ed: deep down Anglophile or more accurately, general fan of all of the British Isles, if only for their ale)
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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Julie Brugger's name added to opening list. My apologies to Tami (and to women everywhere).
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Whittaker and Randall are great sports and all around good gentlemen.
Those British kids know how to keep it clean.
I enjoyed hanging with them in Vedauwoo and learning all the new tricks.
It's all about a healthy attitude and having fun,
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mastadon, tell Julie to chime in here or yor're gonna give me her address.
That should get her attention and acquiescence.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Darwin,
Although it is steep, I believe Lucille (in Vedauwoo) does NOT require inversion. That thing seems like a beast....I've been trying some of the 5.11s in Vedauwoo lately and at this point I can't even fathom what 5.12+ feels like.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Mr Reilly Sir,
I think Julie would rather drink drano or stick pins in her eyes (or maybe both) than post on one of these forums.
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