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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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There are lots of raccoons, skunks, coyotes, and even the odd deer in the large forested area near where I live, in Vancouver. The neighbourhood is regularly festooned with signs of people looking for "lost" cats and small dogs. Usually eaten by the coyotes. Every year or two there's an article in the paper about the horrible vicious coyotes eating Fluffy et al, and about how your child may be next. And that they may be carrying rabies. And vote Conservative. Etc.
Coyotes are opportunistic hunters and omnivores. They often hunt in packs - I've seen it at Joshua Tree. Or on their own - I see them around the city. Or in family/clan groups. The "let's play" lure is reportedly common - and as there may be three or four coyotes waiting in ambush, it doesn't help even it's a big dog, unless it's trained to be mean. As in junkyard mean. Coyotes are killers - domestic dogs mostly aren't.
I make a practice of chasing coyotes that I see in camp, yelling at them, and throwing stones. The last time I was in Joshua Tree, I actually hit one, for which the neighbours rewarded me with a beer. "Harassing the 'wild'life", of course.
Having said that, I really like animals of all kinds, and ravens and coyotes are quite cool. They've managed to thrive on contact with humans, too.
Jerry Kobalenko, a Canadian writer, has travelled extensively on foot on Ellesmere Island, in the high Arctic. He wrote a book about it, called (groan) "The Horizontal Everest". Part of the book is about wolves. He in turn quotes from a book called "The Natural History of Nonsense", in which "..Bergen Evans exposed some of the fallacies then prevalent about wolves, especially their ungovernable lust for human flesh. Evans pointed out that between January and March, 1929, according to the New York Times, wolves devoured 'five Poles, sixteen Austrians, an aged Bulgarian priest, and many Czechoslovakians.' They also besieged villages in Moldavia, Bosnia, and Yugoslavia, threatened Italy, and menaced Istanbul, a city of more than a million."
Yikes! Does the Department of Homeland Insecurity know about this? The U.S. is actually importing these nefarious creatures (from Canada), and they're thriving.
As Piton Ron mentions, humans greatly upset predator prey relationships across North America. We're still seeing the consequences.
Anders
ps I have an enclosed back yard, with high fences. Loki stays within.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 10, 2006 - 12:02am PT
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Black bears probably generally wouldn't hunt dogs, at least not larger dogs. They don't tend to hunt larger prey period. Grizzley might, but not too many of those in the lower 48.
And the Josh coyotes are known for trying to get dogs out to "play" with them. Play from which the dogs won't return. A medium to large dog such as a lab probably outweighs most coyotes, but is not going to fight off several of them. We were warned by the rangers to watch our dogs at night.
That said coyotes are cool. Back in college, I was riding my mt. bike in the foothills above Claremont, CA near dusk and had a coyote come out and run alongside me for about 100 yards. Freaked me initially, but it wasn't aggressive at all. Just seemed to think it was doing something fun.
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CorporateDog
climber
Middle California
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Jul 10, 2006 - 12:33am PT
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"Now the bear is another matter. He or she was right up near the house munching on the suet in the bird feeder - ate the entire thing, I might add. Do bears hunt dogs?"
No LEB - black/brown bears will not actively hunt a dog. They MAY counterattack a small pack of hunting dogs if cornered on the ground - but this is rare and pretty much confined to hunting situations.
Yes, they LOVE fat and high calorie foods - so your suet is sweet!
I've even had them eat a bag of dead flies. Had a bad year with black flies a few seasons back and placed a number of fly traps around the property. The traps are basically a plastic bag with a one-way entry valve on top. You fill the bag with water and drop in the pack of "fly attractant" which smells remarkably like dead things.
Anyway, the flies go in and eventually drown, ad infinitum.
Early September, a lone yearling bear comes through camp looking for grub and procedes to have itself a Julia Child moment with four bags of dead flies. Seldom have I seen ANY mammal look so utterly satisfied with dinner!
Still threw a rock at it though.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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A friend walking her dog in another area of Vancouver had her dog bitten by coyotes. Again, a fairly large forested area. She was walking to school with her dog, a lab/border collie cross. The dog was a bit ahead of her, and a coyote simply came out of the forest and had a bite. (The dog was no longer young, and a bit slow = prey signals.)
Like all our canid friends, coyotes are clever, and learn from experience and each other.
It's a little OT, but there's an interesting book called "The Beast in the Garden". Essentially about the population explosion amongst cougars in the U.S. west, and how that's playing out in Boulder. First humans hunted and poisoned and trapped wolves, cougars and coyotes like mad. Then there was a deer population explosion. Then we stopped killing quite so many wolves and cougars. Guess what happens? Predator population explosion, lots more human-predator interactions. Once or twice a year someone gets killed by a cougar in the U.S., and every few years here in B.C. Often smaller/shorter people, but not always.
Anders
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 10, 2006 - 02:48pm PT
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Ok Lois, a friend of mine was hiking with his wife and 2 dogs in the Sierras and a bear crossed the trial ahead of them. One of the dogs took off after the bear and started harrassing it. The bear proceeded to take down the dog. Now here is where it gets interesting. My friend has is hand and arm in a fiberglass cast because he broke his wrist falling while bouldering. So he charges in and jumps on the back of the bear that is biting his dog and starts clubbing it with his cast. Meanwhile his wife and other dog are also yelling and barking at the bear. Eventually the bear decides the opposition is too stiff and runs off. Dog's life is saved, my friend is almost unscathed and everything turns out ok. My friend does have these nice scars where the bear clawed him in the thigh, but he rolled out of the embrace and so the tear marks are short instead of having ripped his leg open. And he broke his little finger. The dog took a little more repair from the vet and never screws with bears anymore.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 10, 2006 - 06:09pm PT
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Yeah, but can you imagine personally jumping on the back of a 300 pound bear and wailing on it? I can't! If that were my dog he would have been bear food. My friend is a little 'out there' though.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Cool! Nice to see the wolves win for a change. Too bad about the dogs, but the owners shouldn't have put them in the situation.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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This thread isn't valid without Rockjox' presence.
We are, as it were, alone howling at the moon.
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dirtbag
climber
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Any wolf appearing in Kalifornia should be shipped to Idaho.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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They're NOT a big deal. I like the wolves of Idaho. It makes the crazies froth(great fun, that). You guys should get a few more of them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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So, if I'm out with my sheep and a wolf attacks, can I kill it?
Better still, if a wolf charges me or my dogs, can I kill it, ethically?
Survival of the fittest, right? Rick Perry style....
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Dingus,
Shite 'Euro' Sheepdogs have been bred for Hundreds of years in Europe, to protect flocks.
Some breeds could tackle an individual wolf, but never a pack - duuh! They are there to alert the shepherd.....
Some 2000, wolves reside in Spain, there are around 600 wolves in Italy, with sightings as far South as Rome. Germany has a small (protected) population of 150 and some have been seen as far North East as Belgium.
It seems all European countries (bar the UK) have small populations and all are growing.
By the 18th century we had killed off wolves from the UK mainland (the last surviving in Scotland. The last wolf was killed in Ireland in 1786.
There are efforts to reintroduce them to Scotland. A wealthy landowner with a huge fenced estate is hoping to do so, but that debate continues.
I get excited when I see a fox, or occasional deer!
Steve
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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I believe it is "Sierra," didn't you get that memo?
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Wolves being wolves
Dogs being dogs
Sheep being sheep
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Bad Climber
climber
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Cosmic! I love you! You made my day.
BAd
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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What is the point of being armed to protect the sheep if you don't have a light? I've stayed up all night to catch wild/stray dogs attacking sheep and with a good light on a motorcycle battery it's not hard tell a dog from a sheep, and probably not too hard to tell a wolf from a sheepdog.
That farmer is trying to milk compensation, claiming for as-yet un-impregnated ewes. That's the cost of doing business, if those sheep were killed by other natural causes like lightning or floods, who'd he blame? If he doesn't like the arrangement, sell his allotment to someone who does.
Score one for the wolves.
TE
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crankster
Trad climber
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Let the wolves roam where they like.
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