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kev
climber
CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 5, 2006 - 11:36pm PT
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Has anyone heard of wolves in the Sierras?
I ask because if not I saw the f*cking largest coyote in the
world at the north end of Minerets Road this weekend.
Wasn't hungover and it's been many years since I've done anything other than drink....
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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"Wasn't hungover and it's been many years since I've done anything other than drink.... "
So you were not hungover 'cause you were still drunk? Either way it was probably chipmunk ;)
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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They have really big, healthy coyotes on the east side. There was one that lived in my neighborhood in Mammoth and was GOREGEOUS. As well as huge. Different from the desert ones.
Maybe the same one?
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PDHMAN
Ice climber
Eastside of ....
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It was Bachar's pet marmot disguised as a wolf running around looking for snow free rock...
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JerryGarcia
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
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They get big.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Perhaps Gumbie and Pokie, out for a ramble? Or Rocky and Bullwinkle, up to who knows what? Maybe escapees from CG's menagerie? Or perhaps smuggled in by nefarious Canuckleheads?
The conspiracy theorists are gonna have fun with this one.
Anders
ps We thought we'd start with wolves, then maybe move onto grizzlies. They are, after all, on California's flag. And would sure liven up things in the Valley.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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I seen a wild cat dog thing in a river drainage once. I don't like to talk about because I could not tell you what the f*#k it was.
freaked me out, 5 minutes later I ask my climbing partner, what the hell was that. He says, "I have no idea."
no sh#t, there I was.
Anyways, ya never know. Apparently the marmots in the Wasatch are related to the marmots in the Sierra. Trippy stuff like that.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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One time up above Nevada Falls in the summer of 1968, I was camped by the river for the night. Sometime around 2-4AM, we heard an incredibly loud animal fight some hundred or two yards away. When it was over, there was this amazing, huge howl, a classic wolf call---absolutely chilling. It couldn't have been anything else---no yipping, no barking, just a long, drawn out wolf call. I asked Pete Thompson a couple of years later about what the NPS knew about a few wolves repopulating the Sierras, and he smiled, said that it was very possible and that he had heard similar accounts.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Peter, back around 1975 near Lake Tenaya (edit: Tenaya Lake) my buddy Andy and I saw what looked like a wolf. Later that evening we heard what had to be a wolf call, either that or it was a baritone coyote.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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DUDE, you saw manbearpig!
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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That's nothing! You should see the coyote at Joshua Tree. It has the 'my foot is hurt' act down pat. It stands by the side of the road and when a car comes it picks it's front foot up and acts wounded. If you get out of your car and chase it that thing is fast and walks and runs just fine.
I have heard other tails of wolves in Tenaya Canyon too over the years, so maybe there are some in the Sierras.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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When I lived on Mt Rose, we had neighbors with Wolves (illegally) before the powers that be made them get rid of said uber canines, they (5-6 of them) lived in a cyclone fence enclosure.
Every morning and evening the Wolves would sing, often setting off local Coyotes and dogs. It was good (& melodic) times. But the point is, once you hear a Wolf howl, you're never going to mistake a Coyote for one. Coyotes don't sound like dogs & Wolves are even more distinct.
I'm sure some people here know the wolves and their owners that live in the Ophir area. One of those, whose names starts with a K, is the smartest, sharpest dog-like creature I have ever met. Once while wandering in the desert, I ran into him (after a several year interval since our last meeting) and called him by name he turned and came over to me. He knows his name, not the inflection of a familiar person.
Wolves have big heads, yellow eyes, (not the blue of malamutes) and don't, (can't) bark. They get squirrell-ier the more they are interbred with dogs. Half dog/wolves are spooky in a way that real wolves aren't..
Dirt, I thought Al Gore took out ManBearPig?
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Cool, kev. My climbing buddy saw a mountain lion in the same vicinity last year - plain as day, and as far as I know, he wasn't drunk...
Wildlife sightings are far more common than climber sightings up there - as it should be.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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NO way, manbearpig lives!
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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The ability to cross breed and produce viable offspring is no longer the main criteria for determining speciation. In the cat world domestic cats have been bred with Bengal Cats, African Servals, Bobcats, Ocelots and probably other smaller wild cats. Most produce viable offspring but all are certainly considered seperate species.
The fact that dogs, coyotes and wolves can crossbreed doesn't lessen the fact that they are different species. And 'Yes' coyotes are way smarter than dogs.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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manbearpig musta been what I seen.
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ladd
Trad climber
land of fruits, nuts and flakes
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kev, awesome sighting I'm sure - very cool.
I was up on Squaw Sunday, and am seeing scat that is most certainly Cougar. Could be what you saw a mountain lion? Also, around Fuller Buttes - there's a bears den down along the base of the west butte.
One of the most amazing moments in my 30 years of climbing is now a cherished memory. While suiting up at the base of Squaw, this magnificent Red Tail dove right at us - she was ballistic. We heard the hawk piercing the silence just in time to look up and see the bird open up a very beautiful wing span (about 6' tip to tip), and soar down into a wingover to perch on the treetops below. I still have a vision of windspan in my mind's eye - the sunlight shining translucent through the array of striaded feathers with the tips aglow as if set on fire.
cheers
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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There is a theory that coyotes are evolving to occupy the niche vacated by wolves.
In any case, we only seem to be able to kill the stupid ones with the result that we are actually making coyotes smarter. My guess is that by the end of this century they'll have their own space program (they know when they're not welcome.)
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10b4me
Trad climber
California
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One time up above Nevada Falls in the summer of 1968, I was camped by the river for the night. Sometime around 2-4AM, we heard an incredibly loud animal fight some hundred or two yards away. When it was over, there was this amazing, huge howl, a classic wolf call---absolutely chilling. It couldn't have been anything else---no yipping, no barking, just a long, drawn out wolf call. I asked Pete Thompson a couple of years later about what the NPS knew about a few wolves repopulating the Sierras, and he smiled, said that it was very possible and that he had heard similar accounts.
that would be cool.
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sketchy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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rednex love havin pet wolves. I know of several around my neck of the woods that have ran away and never come back.
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Ouch!
climber
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You may have seen an Eastern Sierra Wolf Marmot. They are endangered.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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All but wiped out, by the lowly jackalope.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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That's some of your best work, Ouch.
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kev
climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2006 - 10:03pm PT
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It wasn't like any coyote I've seen before. And my climbing partner also thought it was a wolf. Sucker jogged across the road.
Whatever it was it made for a nice morning. Given the proximity to clover meadow it could have been someones pet hybrid who knows. I need a camera....
I thought the manbearpig was just another name for the dirtbag, aka
'climberous dirtyalchyous'
I am going to start looking for the elusive tree octopus though.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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The check out clerk at Von in Mammoth did look a bit hairy...
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Sheik aka JD
Trad climber
San Diego
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A few things of interest:
1.)
Last year, a report came out from (I believe) scandinavian researchers that ALL dogs originated from wolves. Forensics researchers were attempting to map dog-DNA in relation to crime scenes. Turns out that all dogs (from Chihuahuas to Great Danes) have wolf DNA.
2.)
Besides wolves, I understand there are also a few wolverines to be found in parts of the Sierra.
3.)
Made popular by "Napolean Dynamite", has anyone actually ever seen a "liger" (lion-tiger)? Gosh.
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CorporateDog
climber
Middle California
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Don't know about the wolves - haven't seen any over on the Mammoth Pool Res side of the hill as yet - but we DO have coyotes and darn tricky SOB's they are!
Watched a single coyote come across the meadow late one day and begin prancing around in that "I want to play" body language that canids use. Think the "down dog" pose from Yoga along with a bit of tail wagging whilst hopping from side to side.
Anyway, the neighbors' not-too-bright terrier takes the bait and out into the meadow it goes to "play".
The two hop around for a while before the coyote begins moving back toward the tree line at the meadow's edge...with Muffie the Terrier tagging along of course.
Not three feet from the treeline before the rest of the coyote pack swarms out and MUNCH - Muffie is Lunch!
I feel bad thinking I should have yelled or thrown a rock or such - but I was kinda intrigued by the whole lure-the-mutt-to-dinner process and besides - the crappy little thing barked too much anyway.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Even if people can't always tell the difference between dogs and coyotes, coyotes know a good meal when they see one.
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Ouch!
climber
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" get him to eat out of your hand."
Yes, it's possible but he will eat the hand too.
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sketchy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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Coyotes boldly entering neborhoods are a problem and shouldnt be encouraged. You should shoot it or at least throw rocks at it every time you see it. Feeding it will only lead to garbage being torn up and pets missing.
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sketchy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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I lived on the edge of town in college in an area full of chicken houses. Coyotes would walk through our yard in full day light. Some people living about 5 miles from my house had a full grown lab on a runner in the back yard. They heard a coyotes in there back yard, and in the time it took him to run out there with a shot gun the dog had had one of its legs ripped off. The dog had to be shot. I don't no howmany coyotes were involved but coyotes in the area are fairly small uasly less than 40lbs.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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We were on the west side of the Sierra crest camped at 12k+. High enough that you can see the darkness enveloping farther north and still be up in the day of alpineglow. It was a full moon and you could hear the coyotes start in many miles to the north and their kin chime in turn closer and closer as the sun set and then on to the south as darkness enveloped.
I wondered what would have been our races fate if their vocabulary was more than a howl, with that ability for the whole coyote nation from the artic to the tropics to unite in one song on a full moon night.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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They yip and howl. I've never heard one bark.
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sketchy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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I didnt belive the story at first either, and have never heard of happening before or sense. On a different coyote story when I was 14 I was doing an 8 day canoe trip when we heard a large group of coyotes yelping acrossing the river. A couple of hours of silence passed, and I went into the woods to crap. No sooner had I dropped trowl than the whole pack started yelping again, this time on my time side of the river, and some of them between me and my camp. I was never really in danger, but I had never pinched so hard or done such a hasty job wipen in my life.
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CorporateDog
climber
Middle California
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LEB,
Purely anecdotal, but I've noticed that the best coyote candidates for "taming" were bachelor males.
Bachelors are young males (think teenager) who have been pushed out of their birth pack by the Aplha Male to preclude later confrontation for pack leadership. The castoffs then either wander the countryside looking for another pack to join or may form a loose demi-pack comprised of other lonely bachelors until they can latch onto a co-ed pack instead.
Long story short - since they aren't strongly bonded to a formal pack during this time in their lives - they may be more likely to submit to some degree of taming. Perhaps this is purely based on opportunism since a reliable food source trumps solo hunting anyday...or they crave some type of heirarchial contact - I don't know for sure.
Again, not gospel - just what I have observed over the years.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Misc Canine tidbits;
Walking down from climbing @ Pinnacle Peak, Scottsdale Az, my dog Alobar (an extremely intelligent & gregarious Collie, Golden Retriever mix) and I were approached by a large coyote. Coy kept his distance but made a bunch of weird noises (some answered by others nearby) in an obvious effort to call Al out to join 'the fun.' Alobar would have none of it, and completely ignored the coyote, you would have thought he was deaf. This was a dog who lived to play with other dogs, A fifty pound mass of mottled energy known to catch frisbees at my ear level, and lick six footers in the face without otherwise touching them.
I have seen some very large Coyotes on the Eastside, distinct brown/red coats very different from the almost ubiqtuous grey/black coats seen most places. I can imagine 1)them being mistaken for wolves, b) that they might have some wolf blood in them. Didn't have yellow eyes, however.
Sheik,
I read that study about the Wolf/Dog DNA, very interesting.
(feline digression)
There is an 1100lb liger at Sierra Safari Zoo north of Reno. I know that sounds too big, but that's what they claim and it looks about right, much larger than a Siberian Tiger, fat, too.
back on course;
My friend the colonel has been known to play 'tag' with a coyote in El Cap meadows. It would let him occasionaly touch it's tail. They can be pretty social, if wary.
Anyone who wants to know what a wolf sounds like, should go to Isle Royale Nat. Park in Lake Superior. We used to go there in Scouts and family trips. Every single day I spent there, I heard their distinct howl. Only saw them once or twice.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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This has turned into a great thread.
Lois, although it is presumptuious to claim to know the mind of Dog, I'll make a stab at it.
I assumed the coyote (and his cohorts, lurking, out behind the chollas) were trying to appear nice, and call Al out and then eat him. They are known to do that with domestic dogs, as has been mentioned here, earlier (I think.)
I think anyone who has hiked very far in Josh has seen the results of these encounters(poodle pelts) or at least heard this drama going on, back in the campground.
My point was that Al (imortalized in the novel "Badwater", by Clinton McKinzie) loved to play with other dogs but, would have none of these Coyot shenanigans. ¿How did he know? I thought.
Back to wolves.
One time, I ran into k, the wolf I mentioned before, sitting in front of Mom & Dad's tent. I thunked his drumlike head, and he wagged his tail and 'chewed,' on my arme- human/lupine happiness. Then I noticed the half dozen or so dead kangaroo rats (?) that he had dispatched, before I arrived. There was an earleir instance when he killed six sheep one night. I'd trust him with My, life but like was mentioned, I wouldn't keep a cat in his household.
When I had the wolf housing neighbors, Alobar (as well as all the local dogs) used to run up to their enclosure where they would all wag tails (dogs and wolves alike) and lick each others' faces through the chain link fence.
According to National Geographic, wolves Can't bark.
As for Dogs being defensive of their human symbionts; when I was a kid, my dad and two brothers and I (I'm the middle son)used to wrestle in the living room many a weekend morning. Our dog, a cocker mix, would come in and bark and always defend the smallest participant.
Not sure about the feral husky theory, but who knows?
If the human race finally does itself in, but in a way that the dogs survive, will they re-evolve into wolves? Or will the selective pressures, like goodies under cinderblocks, make this world into Dacshund hell?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"K" is a huge, 92% wolf that I know. He lives near a boomtown in a large square shaped western state. I think there are some here who know him, so I wanted to spark their memories, but as the topic of legality of cohabitatng with such indivuals came, up I didn't want to be Too specific. (also 'k' is a lame kafka joke.)
I think bears get kind of equated with dogs. It's easy to see, in a superficial way,they're big, generally affable and kind of goofy. They are not generally aggressive, but are almost completely unstoppable, when the whim strikes.
Some of them seem indivually tame-able, like circus bears that ride bicycles and juggle, etc. But it takes a huge amount of responsibility to take on a hobby like that!!
Would 15-20lb bears be Ewoks?
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
Austin, TX to South LakeTahoe, CA
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LEB:
It's interesting that you use the word "corrupt" when referring to taming feral animals such as coyotes - it's a particularly apt description.
Every bit of advice that I've ever heard warns people NOT to feed or "corrupt" wild animals since it can and frequently does lead to situations that are dangerous for the animal - i.e., walking up to a strange person that is not so friendly towards animals and getting killed for it, or becoming dependent on human handouts and losing the ability to find natural foods, etc. Situations where this is particularly prevalent include the bears in Yosemite and here in the Lake Tahoe region.
Taming or "corrupting" these wild animals, whether its a bear, coyote, bird or chipmunk is the least responsible course of action to take when considering the animal's long-term well being.
On another note, though I suspect (hope) you were trolling, prioritizing a discussion of irresponsibly taming wild coyotes, racoons and other animals over a discussion of our country at war, or of humane treatment of other humans in a prison setting is a pretty horrible admission.
-Aaron
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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There are lots of raccoons, skunks, coyotes, and even the odd deer in the large forested area near where I live, in Vancouver. The neighbourhood is regularly festooned with signs of people looking for "lost" cats and small dogs. Usually eaten by the coyotes. Every year or two there's an article in the paper about the horrible vicious coyotes eating Fluffy et al, and about how your child may be next. And that they may be carrying rabies. And vote Conservative. Etc.
Coyotes are opportunistic hunters and omnivores. They often hunt in packs - I've seen it at Joshua Tree. Or on their own - I see them around the city. Or in family/clan groups. The "let's play" lure is reportedly common - and as there may be three or four coyotes waiting in ambush, it doesn't help even it's a big dog, unless it's trained to be mean. As in junkyard mean. Coyotes are killers - domestic dogs mostly aren't.
I make a practice of chasing coyotes that I see in camp, yelling at them, and throwing stones. The last time I was in Joshua Tree, I actually hit one, for which the neighbours rewarded me with a beer. "Harassing the 'wild'life", of course.
Having said that, I really like animals of all kinds, and ravens and coyotes are quite cool. They've managed to thrive on contact with humans, too.
Jerry Kobalenko, a Canadian writer, has travelled extensively on foot on Ellesmere Island, in the high Arctic. He wrote a book about it, called (groan) "The Horizontal Everest". Part of the book is about wolves. He in turn quotes from a book called "The Natural History of Nonsense", in which "..Bergen Evans exposed some of the fallacies then prevalent about wolves, especially their ungovernable lust for human flesh. Evans pointed out that between January and March, 1929, according to the New York Times, wolves devoured 'five Poles, sixteen Austrians, an aged Bulgarian priest, and many Czechoslovakians.' They also besieged villages in Moldavia, Bosnia, and Yugoslavia, threatened Italy, and menaced Istanbul, a city of more than a million."
Yikes! Does the Department of Homeland Insecurity know about this? The U.S. is actually importing these nefarious creatures (from Canada), and they're thriving.
As Piton Ron mentions, humans greatly upset predator prey relationships across North America. We're still seeing the consequences.
Anders
ps I have an enclosed back yard, with high fences. Loki stays within.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 10, 2006 - 12:02am PT
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Black bears probably generally wouldn't hunt dogs, at least not larger dogs. They don't tend to hunt larger prey period. Grizzley might, but not too many of those in the lower 48.
And the Josh coyotes are known for trying to get dogs out to "play" with them. Play from which the dogs won't return. A medium to large dog such as a lab probably outweighs most coyotes, but is not going to fight off several of them. We were warned by the rangers to watch our dogs at night.
That said coyotes are cool. Back in college, I was riding my mt. bike in the foothills above Claremont, CA near dusk and had a coyote come out and run alongside me for about 100 yards. Freaked me initially, but it wasn't aggressive at all. Just seemed to think it was doing something fun.
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CorporateDog
climber
Middle California
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Jul 10, 2006 - 12:33am PT
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"Now the bear is another matter. He or she was right up near the house munching on the suet in the bird feeder - ate the entire thing, I might add. Do bears hunt dogs?"
No LEB - black/brown bears will not actively hunt a dog. They MAY counterattack a small pack of hunting dogs if cornered on the ground - but this is rare and pretty much confined to hunting situations.
Yes, they LOVE fat and high calorie foods - so your suet is sweet!
I've even had them eat a bag of dead flies. Had a bad year with black flies a few seasons back and placed a number of fly traps around the property. The traps are basically a plastic bag with a one-way entry valve on top. You fill the bag with water and drop in the pack of "fly attractant" which smells remarkably like dead things.
Anyway, the flies go in and eventually drown, ad infinitum.
Early September, a lone yearling bear comes through camp looking for grub and procedes to have itself a Julia Child moment with four bags of dead flies. Seldom have I seen ANY mammal look so utterly satisfied with dinner!
Still threw a rock at it though.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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A friend walking her dog in another area of Vancouver had her dog bitten by coyotes. Again, a fairly large forested area. She was walking to school with her dog, a lab/border collie cross. The dog was a bit ahead of her, and a coyote simply came out of the forest and had a bite. (The dog was no longer young, and a bit slow = prey signals.)
Like all our canid friends, coyotes are clever, and learn from experience and each other.
It's a little OT, but there's an interesting book called "The Beast in the Garden". Essentially about the population explosion amongst cougars in the U.S. west, and how that's playing out in Boulder. First humans hunted and poisoned and trapped wolves, cougars and coyotes like mad. Then there was a deer population explosion. Then we stopped killing quite so many wolves and cougars. Guess what happens? Predator population explosion, lots more human-predator interactions. Once or twice a year someone gets killed by a cougar in the U.S., and every few years here in B.C. Often smaller/shorter people, but not always.
Anders
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 10, 2006 - 02:48pm PT
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Ok Lois, a friend of mine was hiking with his wife and 2 dogs in the Sierras and a bear crossed the trial ahead of them. One of the dogs took off after the bear and started harrassing it. The bear proceeded to take down the dog. Now here is where it gets interesting. My friend has is hand and arm in a fiberglass cast because he broke his wrist falling while bouldering. So he charges in and jumps on the back of the bear that is biting his dog and starts clubbing it with his cast. Meanwhile his wife and other dog are also yelling and barking at the bear. Eventually the bear decides the opposition is too stiff and runs off. Dog's life is saved, my friend is almost unscathed and everything turns out ok. My friend does have these nice scars where the bear clawed him in the thigh, but he rolled out of the embrace and so the tear marks are short instead of having ripped his leg open. And he broke his little finger. The dog took a little more repair from the vet and never screws with bears anymore.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 10, 2006 - 06:09pm PT
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Yeah, but can you imagine personally jumping on the back of a 300 pound bear and wailing on it? I can't! If that were my dog he would have been bear food. My friend is a little 'out there' though.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Cool! Nice to see the wolves win for a change. Too bad about the dogs, but the owners shouldn't have put them in the situation.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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This thread isn't valid without Rockjox' presence.
We are, as it were, alone howling at the moon.
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dirtbag
climber
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Any wolf appearing in Kalifornia should be shipped to Idaho.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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They're NOT a big deal. I like the wolves of Idaho. It makes the crazies froth(great fun, that). You guys should get a few more of them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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So, if I'm out with my sheep and a wolf attacks, can I kill it?
Better still, if a wolf charges me or my dogs, can I kill it, ethically?
Survival of the fittest, right? Rick Perry style....
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Dingus,
Shite 'Euro' Sheepdogs have been bred for Hundreds of years in Europe, to protect flocks.
Some breeds could tackle an individual wolf, but never a pack - duuh! They are there to alert the shepherd.....
Some 2000, wolves reside in Spain, there are around 600 wolves in Italy, with sightings as far South as Rome. Germany has a small (protected) population of 150 and some have been seen as far North East as Belgium.
It seems all European countries (bar the UK) have small populations and all are growing.
By the 18th century we had killed off wolves from the UK mainland (the last surviving in Scotland. The last wolf was killed in Ireland in 1786.
There are efforts to reintroduce them to Scotland. A wealthy landowner with a huge fenced estate is hoping to do so, but that debate continues.
I get excited when I see a fox, or occasional deer!
Steve
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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I believe it is "Sierra," didn't you get that memo?
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Wolves being wolves
Dogs being dogs
Sheep being sheep
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Bad Climber
climber
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Cosmic! I love you! You made my day.
BAd
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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What is the point of being armed to protect the sheep if you don't have a light? I've stayed up all night to catch wild/stray dogs attacking sheep and with a good light on a motorcycle battery it's not hard tell a dog from a sheep, and probably not too hard to tell a wolf from a sheepdog.
That farmer is trying to milk compensation, claiming for as-yet un-impregnated ewes. That's the cost of doing business, if those sheep were killed by other natural causes like lightning or floods, who'd he blame? If he doesn't like the arrangement, sell his allotment to someone who does.
Score one for the wolves.
TE
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crankster
Trad climber
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Let the wolves roam where they like.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Go wolves!
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Very interesting to see this thread. This summer my girlfriend and I along with our two dogs(wolf hybrids) went backpacking to Rockbound Lake. About 8miles in we heard a howl like no other and it was close. I've lived in the mountains my whole life and I assure you it wasn't a coyote. We both looked at each other and I said that was a f*#king wolf.
Interesting the location is near Kev's original post here.
My girl called the FS and talked to a biologist, who pretty much said she was mistaken and it was surely a coyote. I checked the fish and game website and they said many false wolf identifications are from troubled hybrids who's owners couldn't handle them any more and released them in the woods. This seems likely, but OR7 has me thinking.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2014 - 08:33am PT
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This Just In,
It was either someone's wolf hybrid out for a stroll or a wolf. Very interesting about the locations.
kev
EDIT: Wow I started this thread back in 06!
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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My girl called the FS and talked to a biologist, who pretty much said she was mistaken and it was surely a coyote. I checked the fish and game website and they said many false wolf identifications are from troubled hybrids who's owners couldn't handle them any more and released them in the woods.
Don't believe the experts. For several years people had reported seeing a mountain lion around Greenwich, Connecticut. The experts said that it was impossible, that city folk couldn't tell a bobcat from a mountain lion, they claimed that photographs and snow prints were faked. Even when presented with a dead mountain lion following a collision with an SUV, the experts continued to claim that it must have been a recently escaped captive animal, that there was no way a wild mountain lion could have been there. When DNA analysis showed that the animal had walked "unnoticed" all the way from South Dakota, the experts finally shut up.
TE
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thebravecowboy
climber
hold on tight boys
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if the FS/CA Fish & Game openly admitted that something bigger and meaner than coyotes prowled the woods, you can imagine the draw that it would present to folks looking for a righteous kill. similarly, the CO DOW never published their side of the story re the mama grizz killed in the southern San Juans in 2003, skewert by a bowhunter in his own camp in defense of life and limb. they just DO NOT want a slew of Texans, Nevadans, and other asshats storming in to blow away big smokey. An isolate community of alpha predators doing damage to the odd hunter/deer population is less bad than a torrent of turgid bellicose buttholes trying to blow away anything bigger than bambi.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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if the FS/CA Fish & Game openly admitted that something bigger and meaner than coyotes prowled the woods, you can imagine the draw that it would present to folks looking for a righteous kill. similarly, the CO DOW never published their side of the story re the mama grizz killed in the southern San Juans in 2003, skewert by a bowhunter in his own camp in defense of life and limb. they just DO NOT want a slew of Texans, Nevadans, and other asshats storming in to blow away big smokey. An isolate community of alpha predators doing damage to the odd hunter/deer population is less bad than a torrent of turgid bellicose buttholes trying to blow away anything bigger than bambi.
Great post! The decimation of the alpha predator population to protect cattle and sheep is a tragedy that has numerous negative unintended consequences. Although I am FAR from a vegetarian, I would be happy to eat a few meatless meals if it meant putting an end to grazing on public lands and the land / animal management practices that go along with it.
Go wolves!
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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A bunch of people keeps wolves as pets and sometimes even get fake certificates from the vets for them as some dog breed. They probably released some pups into the wild, and this is what it is. It's not legal to keep wolves in California, so selling pups might be tricky and lead to being caught, so they might had let some go. That's what I was thinking too when I read this. It seems unlikely, but not impossible, that a wolf could travel that far to get to the Sierra. But there's certainly nothing to stop some jackass from releasing their "pet" into the wild because the moron's commitment to the animal didn't extend much further than acquiring it. Look at all the wild parrots you see around LA and SF. It's not like their indigenous, but there they are.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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I made this friend the other summer out at Bowman, which is kinda out there a little. He was just roaming around tag less by himself, he chilled with us for a few hours and moved on.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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for sure, just the closest i have seen to the "wolf" in cali,
edit : that beast scares me too.
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Yafer
Trad climber
Chatsworth, California
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Hey Jan...can the half breed cats breed more half breed cats? I think the action stops at the first pass...and those half breed cats can not reproduce.
Except...damn....
just saw this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_cat
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Oct 13, 2014 - 07:32am PT
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I had a wolf walk across our acreage last week. A bear the week before. A dozen deer a week and coyotes. Moose with huge antlers in the neighbor' yard with his horses. Sounds like I'm lucky compared to everyone in California who never gets to see anything but hoards of humans.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Oct 13, 2014 - 07:35am PT
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^truth
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Oct 13, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
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you underestimate the value of people watching
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 13, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
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Tooth...You saw moosedrool recently...?
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Oct 13, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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Anyone read that link?
Curious your thoughts...
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
out in front
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Oct 30, 2014 - 09:02am PT
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Not a coywolf but saw what I guess was a coydog in Santa Monica mountains near malibu creek. 60lb I would guess, Labrador size
Damn that wolf pup is good looking
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 20, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
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Wonderful News!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 20, 2015 - 08:30pm PT
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Basque shepherds were seen massing in Bakersfield with burning torches and pitchforks.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 20, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
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Basque shepherds were seen massing in Bakersfield with burning torches and pitchforks.
Ron A. is Basque?
Who knew?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 20, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
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Thanks Rox...ugg..!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 20, 2015 - 09:44pm PT
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Sounds like I'm lucky compared to almost everyone in California who never gets to see anything but hoards of humans.
There, fixed it for you.
I've seen Mtn lions several times in the wild in the Kern canyon area and up near Courtright. I live on the edge of the urban mass and get bears, coyotes, deer (overpopulated,) bobcats, foxes and of course 'coons and skunks. There's hoards of humans too, just not right on my front porch.
Then of course there's Reilly just down the street...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 20, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
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That's OK, Kris, I'm reconciled to being just not right*, even when I'm not
on your porch.
*(Probably explains why I'm enjoying the Lutoslawski Concerto for Orchestra
on KUSC right now)
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10b4me
Social climber
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Aug 21, 2015 - 07:57am PT
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Next up, bring back the grizzly bears
That would be great.
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couchmaster
climber
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Aug 21, 2015 - 08:29am PT
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Some of us are geographically challenged I'll tell ya Ekat:-) But they'll be over there too in short order.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 21, 2015 - 08:33am PT
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I saw a wolf near the Mobil Mart, his hair was PERFECT!
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Aug 21, 2015 - 09:19am PT
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It is hard to mistake a coyote for a wolf just like it is hard to mistake a black bear for a grizzly. The only wolves I have seen in the wild were in NE British Columbia.
There are wolves in Banff National Park but I haven't run across them.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Aug 21, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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Two years ago my daughter and I were in the Goat Rocks Wilderness and we saw a wolf. I know what coyotes look like and this wasn't one. No wolves reported in Washington, but there it was, in the central Cascades, big as life. It turned and walked away.
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couchmaster
climber
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Aug 21, 2015 - 11:28am PT
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"Two years ago my daughter and I were in the Goat Rocks Wilderness and we saw a wolf. I know what coyotes look like and this wasn't one. No wolves reported in Washington, but there it was, in the central Cascades, big as life. It turned and walked away."
Washington has had a few wolves running around for quite some time. More in Eastern and Northern, but as noted, they can and do some high mileage traveling in a day.
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