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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Jul 23, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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@ Ed:
Match racing is great to watch with the modern technologies, but...
I love the tech and power of the AC's, but...
I as well feel a little something is lost when racing cats.
Cats go real fast (in a straight line) but don't tack for crap.
That simple fact makes cat racing (from Hobie's to AC 70's) much more of a drag race than a traditional, tactical, match race.
The possibility of a serious, up wind, tacking duel becomes very limited in the Cats. You don't play shifts nearly as aggressively because a tack cost time so dearly.
With the size, complexity and speed/loading of the AC's you will never see a seriously aggressive, off wind, luffing match on a reach/run.
etc...
I sail cats fairly often these days.
Two days ago I completely buried the lee hull of a Hobie 18 doing 20+ knots on a reach. That's pretty puckering.
But when it comes to racing, I find cat racing down right boring strategically.
Of course the start is critical in any race and particularly in a match race. However after that cat racing becomes primarily a drag race !
Along these lines I absolutely love this video.
The strategy and the athleticism involved is just so RAW.
And the battle continues at it's ferved pace off wind.
You can pretty much just skip to about 10 mins into it before the action starts.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 23, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
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Trundle, about 5 y ago, I skippered the first markset boat in the Laser Radial world championships at Santa Monica.
Amazing to watch the race from that position. Guy from Turkey won the Jr. Worlds....and won each race by a lot. I'm talking 8 boat lengths in front of 80 other boats. I would not have thought Turkey, he really had outstanding skills.
In that kind of race, you can really admire the sailor involved....it was just him that was superior.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 28, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
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Now THIS is racing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/26/sports/77-years-later-yacht-repeats-win-in-transpacific-race.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0
77 Years Later, Yacht Repeats Win in Trans-Pacific Race
It took a thousand or so miles of sailing with the long, powerful waves of the Pacific Ocean for Hannah Jenner, a rising star in ocean racing, to get comfortable in this year’s Transpacific Yacht Race. Jenner, a 31-year-old from Britain, is used to racing ultralight 40-footers across oceans. But in the Transpac this month, Jenner was sailing Dorade, a 52-foot wooden sailboat from 1930 that is trimmed in varnished mahogany and adorned with polished bronze hardware.
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Nohea
Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
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Jul 28, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
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There's been some nice boats in town lately. I heard 9 boats hit debris along the transpacific route.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Jul 28, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
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Regarding Dorade and her Transpac win:
77 Years Later, Yacht Repeats Win in Trans-Pacific Race
First in class, First overall winner !
That ^ needs a little qualification
for the non, offshore, racing sailors perhaps ?
Dorade handily won her class and overall honors.
That does not mean she had the fastest elapsed time by any means.
She did not win 'Line Honors', she was not first across the line.
She won on 'corrected time'. Corrected time being the modified time when calculated using the handicap system.
Not to (by any means) diminish her achievement.
Dorade is a Stately Lady, as with most all yachts of the 'Olin Stevens' pedigree.
If I were to do the (uphill, up wind) delivery back to California and had a choice of which yacht to be a delivery crew on...
It would be Dorade over any number of the high tech, modern ULDB's (ultra light displacement boat).
Sure Some of these modern Farr designs, even the older Bill Lee designed 'Santa Cruz' yachts are incomparable down wind sleds compared with the likes of Dorade. But going to weather or dealing with some big water... gimme a deep draft S+S design any day ;)
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Speaking of America's Cup and Olin Stevens:
Here is a shot of my all time favorite America's Cup, 12 meter defenders
"Intrepid" and she was an Olin Stevens Beauty as well.
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A brief story if you wish to indulge me:
I basically 'grew up' in what was at the time 'The World's Largest Sail loft', Hood's Marblehead.
My dad was the 'hand work' specialist and on call rigger in the Service Dept. One of my first 9-5 jobs was doing hand work in production.
My dad used to tell me that if I wanted to really learn sail making I should do a stint in the Service Dept. His rationale was that in production you only work on new designs and never really see them after a few seasons when they would come back into the Service Dept for repairs. As well in the service dept you got to see all manner of sails from various sail makers and boats from all over the world. I got this. There was many a time that I would sit beside my dad on his sail maker's bench and watch him do a hand fell, French seam repair on sails for vessels the likes of the U.S.C.G's, square rigger the 'Eagle'
Most of the workers in the service dept with the exception of the (machine) sewers and my dad were younger people with some strong association with off shore racing or traditional sailing craft.
It was when I was there on a stint, perhaps very late 70's/early 80's that I met a lady working on the floor in the Service Dept. She was very unassuming. Unless you got to know her you would have no idea of her intelligence, drive and opulent back ground.
One day while talking with her she told me she was forming a syndicate to buy and restore a grand ole, America's Cup 'J' boat. I thought this was borderline preposterous. 'Where there any 'J' boats left that would be worthy of the cost and effort? She assured me there was and said that one day we might just see a small fleet of them sail again !
The 'J' Boats were so huge, so elegant, I was told by an old timer that BITD when they would come to Marblehead on the New York Yacht Club Cruise, that their masts could be seen from Crocker Park, above the Neck across the harbor.
Recently I came across these videos on Utoob...
and my eyes watered as my heart soared.
Wanna talk 'buckett list' ?
You can have the helm... I want lead, fore deck position!
Then:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
And Now!
(this one is a very professionally done promo)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fantastic, with some good insights
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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Yaa for Dorade! I have a S&S Yankee Dolphin 24 and she can take me anywhere. Proven.
Olin Stephens was a master designer, as is shown by Dorade's TransPac win. His designs were built to be seaworthy yet fast.
The AC was traditionally an ocean race, but they changed the venue to attract a larger audience, so they move it to inland waters (easier for spectators) and as a result built AC design boats for speed not stability. These boats are not seaworthy. Ask any of the crew on Oracle and they'll tell you the same, AC 72's are built for speed.
The positive result of all this is design innovation that can change how we do things. Facing the reality of climate change due to our dependence on fossil fuels, the prospect of a stable seaworthy vessel that can sail at 50 knots in 20 knots of wind and can deliver trade goods across oceans sounds good to me. Innovation that comes out of sportsmanship, not war.
The AC rocks!
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
who gave up and just goes sailing now!
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Dingus, being out on the ocean in 25 to 30 knots of breeze with the spray everywhere feels a lot like being high in the mountains in the middle of a big storm. Except that of course it took way less effort to get there. And as a climber you would be great on the foredeck, which is where I sail on our Santa Cruz 37.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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the freedom of going anywhere on your own power and guile is shared by a number of sporting activities and is deeply rooted in history
sailing represents the domestication of a natural force to propel humans into an otherwise hostile expanse
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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I don't think I could watch that Redford movie. As an off shore sailor hitting a floating shipping container is a real possibility and a major fear. Last year sailing from Hawaii to Alaska we had to go through the tsunami debris field but we didn't see anything. We did hit two large logs that looked more like dock pilings. Luckily straight on, no damage, having a metal boat helps.
I did make the BIG mistake of reading about the Hobart to Sydney disaster race while on that passage. Why I read about a sailing disaster while out to sea is beyond me...
I do love it though...it never stops calling me...no matter which latitutdes (although I am partial to high latituides)
I'd have to say the America's cup is something, while I enjoy to a certain degree, because it's so outside my range of experience and knowledge it's hard to get my head around it.
Susan
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
who gave up and just goes sailing now!
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Last weekend we were racing from Santa Barbara to Redondo Beach and snapped the rudder off 50 miles into the race while surfing along at 15 knots. That was a long wait for the tow boat to arrive and a much longer tow home to Oxnard and the whole time you are hoping nothing starts leaking as that rudder shaft is a big hole right into the boat. The bummer was we were crushing our class and were probably close to the top overall as well. Oh well, thank god for insurance as a new rudder is over $15,000!
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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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Aug 19, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
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Splash! 2 NZ grinders were swept overboard and left to bob like corks in San Francisco bay.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 19, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
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To begin with, the 12 M and IACC series boats were built to design rules that comprised a three dimensional "box". That box gave designers room to optimize designs, but still race "level"..I.e. without handicaps. Thus, there are NO 12 meter boats that are exactly alike in ANY dimension.
Next, Connor didn't screw the game by sailing an 80' cat. The Aussies tried to game him y entering a 147' three masted schooner or something like that. His answer was a relatively cheap, and insanely fast, comparatively speaking, cat. That's the kind of crap that can happen in a deed of gift challenge (when no one can agree on the terms and conditions).
The AC72 is as much airplane as it is boat. Technologically they're bloody amazing to see up close. They're frighteningly fast when fully up on foils, in a way that you'd just love to try it, even though your testes would be in the shadow of your tonsils the entire time.
This is a quantum jump in sailing...it ain't going to be perfect or pretty all of the time.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Aug 19, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
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This one is for you Captain Dingus, best of both worlds. Mallorca no less!
And Sal it was the Kiwis not the Aussies!
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Aug 19, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
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I saw some of the antics in the bay on practice days.....Contrived at best and I'm going to bed. Get a real sport. These folks think they are the elite of racing and yet they don't even come close to formula one and drag racing expenses... Get on with it.....F*#king Salt water lover at oracle is a self indulgent bitch.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 19, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
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Really? Team Artemis dropped over $100M for four races. At an amortized cost of $25M/race,that kind of blows F1 out of the water.
Guido, f me, yeah, that Michael Fay thing.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Sep 12, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
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LMAO:
Guido that shiite is rich !
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Next race soon, tune in on youtube ;)
Day 4 of the 34th America's Cup is here - Races start at 1:15pm PT. Watch live on NBC Sports Network in the US or on the America's Cup YouTube internationally.
https://www.facebook.com/OracleRacingTeam?hc_location=timeline
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Gene
climber
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Sep 24, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
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It's a whole new ball game. All tied up with one race to go.
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