risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]


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Gym climber
Jun 10, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
And on the Manning trial:

The military trial of Bradley Manning is a judicial lynching. The government has effectively muzzled the defense team. The Army private first class is not permitted to argue that he had a moral and legal obligation under international law to make public the war crimes he uncovered. The documents that detail the crimes, torture and killing Manning revealed, because they are classified, have been barred from discussion in court, effectively removing the fundamental issue of war crimes from the trial. Manning is forbidden by the court to challenge the government’s unverified assertion that he harmed national security. Lead defense attorney David E. Coombs said during pretrial proceedings that the judge’s refusal to permit information on the lack of actual damage from the leaks would “eliminate a viable defense, and cut defense off at the knees.”

Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jun 10, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
I hope he keeps his soap on a rope.

The Granite State.
Jun 10, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Finally, an issue that Dems and the GOP can agree on.

I'm a Democrat, and this sort of nonsense is obviously wrong.

I'm glad that we all can have a kumbaya moment here.

Now, back to partisanship!!!!

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 10, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
Yer Gunna Die!

Do you understand that down to your core?

If you are young and happen to live 80+ years as you have a fair chance to.. YER STILL GUNNA DIE!

And if you do live that long you will live through the death of around 8 to 10 BILLION people.

Now as climbers we tend to SAY we embrace the idea that quality is worth the risk of quantity when it comes to life. Some of us DIE based on that choice.

The leaker is my hero. Even though he is probably a bit odd and unstable. He probably spoke up in vain. America will continue to give up freedom for the security to live crappy lives full of fear and and weekends away from jobs they hate and can barely eek out a living with. Scrapping and squabbling in crappy little concrete jungles.

Another hero once said. "Give me Liberty or Give me Death"
J man

Trad climber
morgan hill
Jun 10, 2013 - 07:35pm PT

Spies Everywhere!

IRS Buying Spying Equipment: Covert Cameras in Coffee Trays, Plants

Only accepting bids for 19hours until purchase is made.

Hurry! They need the bugs right now! Tues June 11 2013.



Grey Matter
Jun 10, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Did you all forget that this was exposed in 2007. It started soon after we signed our rights over to Big Brother under the [un]Patriot Act.
At times they (NSA, FBI, DHS et al) have changed the name of it so they could claim that they stopped a particular program. But or course the general practice never stopped expanding and now it's expanded 100-fold.


No case yet has stopped them.

Don't even dream that they are only looking at comms of foreigners. In order to do that, first they have to screen everything. And if you have ever made a foreign call or email, or looked at a foreign website, you are now a suspect.

Jun 10, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
The NSA surveillance has been known to the public for years.

The main stream media (MSM) has reported almost nothing about it for years.

The stupid Americans only follow MSM.

MSM has suddenly reported the NSA surveillance.

Stupid Americans suddenly think it's something new.

Stupid Americans still don't have a clue what's really going on even though it's spelled out in the clear every day.

Only when they "see" something on MSM a dim light bulb goes on in their dim heads.

You've all been owned and pawned to the max.

You should all just STFU and stand in the line to the guillotine you've all made for yourselves all along ......


Jun 10, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jun 10, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
Finally, an issue that Dems and the GOP can agree on.

I'm a Democrat, and this sort of nonsense is obviously wrong.

The GOP is only against it if DEMs are in power. I'm against it no matter what



Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Jun 10, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Oh so Werner is an Islamist because he speaks the truth about the delusion of the American populace? I don't think so.

Islam is just another religion.

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 10, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
islamicist understudy actually


yer stooopid. Not from around these parts methinks..

Even if Werner is just repeating what I've been saying.

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 10, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
Islam is just another religion.


It's just the

"cult of the child molesting warlord"

It's an insult to the rest of the major religions to compare them.

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jun 10, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
Why was all this OK 8 years ago?


Social climber
So Cal
Jun 10, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
it wasn't

It was OK for the last five years until Barry cut his minions loose on the press.

When their own ox was gored they finally started paying attention.


Trad climber
Jun 10, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
Democracy Now interviews ex-NSA officials "slippery slope toward totalitarian society"....

Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jun 10, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
1997 I was a Central Office Supervisor overseeing 25 offices for one of America's notable Telcos.

We received internal orders to build unrestricted T1 lines into each offices Administrative and Control Panel which gave direct access to all traffic points that originated and terminated within that particular Central Office.

In simpler terms - these access portals gave the end user unfettered access to every landline call, every data link transfer, every encrypted DSL transmission that occurred in real time.

Curious as to who ordered such unprecedented access, we were only told that concerned government agencies had been granted access and to comply with the build request and consider these connections to be off-limits to all Telco personnel unless directed otherwise by no less than a regional VP.

Being the snoopy people that we were, we backtraced these connections through numerous jump links and eventually tracked them to Virginia - home of many a nefarious federal agency.

Through undetected monitoring, we determined that these unnamed agencies were capturing and in essence, bugging potentially every call process that occurred within our offices.

I was not surprised , but I was disappointed that my own country feared the general citizen to the degree that they would monitor all that we said, heard or sent over the public network.


Social climber
So Cal
Jun 11, 2013 - 12:04am PT
OK when Bush was doing it without a warrant,

Bush eventually got warrants and never went on a full nation fishing expedition.

The "well Bush did it " is getting tiring.

Barry IS doing it!

On Mohammedans,

Name another major world religion where respected theologians have scholarly debates on whether their founder really f*#ked a nine year old girl, or waited till she was twelve?

Ever read the Koran?

Hard to find a suria that doesn't have at least one command somewhere to go kill some infidels.

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 12:35am PT
ever read the Hebrew Bible? Glorification of (God sanctioned) genocide throughout - or so the authors would have us believe. What's new. Where's the hate come from?

Mountain climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 12:54am PT
Our Constitution and Bill of Rights are Being Violated

NOVA: The Spy Factory

The Washington Post: Top Secret America - A hidden world, growing beyond control

NSA Spies on Everyone:

This has been going on now for a long time. Seems average joe is just waking to this.

It's absolutely wrong no matter how you look at it.

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Jun 11, 2013 - 02:33am PT
I have tried to resist posting on this thread...I worked in the business for over 30 years. I signed god knows how many secrecy oaths under Title 18. I still take them seriously, even 10 years later. if you believe the system s being abused, you have a choice: file a complaint within the system, either the Whistleblowers office or the Inspector General, or resign and shut up. You might want to believe that these offices are in charge of whitewashing...except that I know for a fact that they go a bit apeshit over privacy.

As a contractor, I NEVER had the right or authority to violate need to know by divulging classified information, including sources and methods, even if I didn't agree with them. It was a promise that I made to my government and in effect TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. Snowden took those same oaths, and in my book, he's no hero.

Snowden isn't risking his life, he's only risking his freedom, and IMHO, he should lose it. Of one thing I am certain...we cannot allow personnel that have taken secrecy oaths to make up their own rules about what information can or should be divulged. We know what's at stake when we sign them, and no one has ever put a gun to my head in the process of signing.

I know some of you might disagree, but frankly, there are things of which you just have no need to know. You might like to know, or wish you knew, but that's just not the way we work, and for the most part, you've all survived quite well not knowing the details.

I cannot/willNOT speak for Prism or NSA. I will tell you that NSA takes their responsibility under USSID 18 very seriously.
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