risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:00am PT


"jghedge keeps posting a (selective) quote from Snowden, here's the full quote for context:"


So why not make that statement at the USA roundtable, with the other whistleblowers

Why do it in a room in China, surrounded by stolen laptops with NSA intel in them?


How's that for "context"?


crøtch

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:11am PT
GLENN GREENWALD: If your motive had been to harm the United States and help its enemies, or if your motive had been personal material gain, were there things that you could have done with these documents to advance those goals that you didn’t end up doing?

EDWARD SNOWDEN: Absolutely. I mean, anybody in the positions of access with the technical capabilities that I had could, you know, suck out secrets, pass them on the open market to Russia. You know, they always have an open door, as we do. I had access to, you know, the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all around the world, the locations of every station we have, what their missions are and so forth. If I had just wanted to harm the U.S., you know, that—you could shut down the surveillance system in an afternoon. But that’s not my intention. And I think, for anyone making that argument, they need to think, if they were in my position, and, you know, you live a privileged life—you’re living in Hawaii, in Paradise, and making a ton of money—what would it take to make you leave everything behind?

The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. People will see in the media all of these disclosures. They’ll know the length that the government is going to grant themselves powers, unilaterally, to create greater control over American society and global society, but they won’t be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things, to force their representatives to actually take a stand in their interests. And the months ahead, the years ahead, it’s only going to get worse, until eventually there will be a time where policies will change, because the only thing that restricts the activities of the surveillance state are policy. Even our agreements with other sovereign governments, we consider that to be a stipulation of policy rather than a stipulation of law. And because of that, a new leader will be elected, they’ll flip the switch, say that because of the crisis, because of the dangers that we face in the world, you know, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power, and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it, and it’ll be turnkey tyranny.

^^^
Word.
jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:17am PT

There you go

No need to defect with stolen intel

Just stand up in the National Press Club and let Obama have it


Can't get over Ellsberg writing in that editorial how Snowden had no choice but to defect, and anybody who did today what Ellsberg did back then would be arrested - yet there's Drake, apparently not even charged with anything for doing it.

And no one calls Ellsberg out on that blatant falsehood - everyone just nods their heads and agrees with him, hahahaha

And now, Snowden's headed for Venezuela - which has a worse record of oppression than any of you ever dreamed of existing here


You guys are more delusional than any wingnut - it's embarrassing.




crøtch

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:22am PT
- yet there's Drake, apparently not even charged with anything for doing it.


He was charged with 10 felony counts. Did you even hear what he had to say? It took 5 years to clear his name and get the charges dropped. Turns out he didn't release any classified information, it was all already part of the public record.

What's your take on his message, jhedge? Drake is articulate and has a thesis. Do you care to address the substance of his talk?
jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:44am PT
Yeah, Bush admin originally charged him, and Obama admin ended up dropping the charges. So? You break your security clearance, you pay the consequences.

I've read this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/12/snowden-surveillance-subverting-constitution

He's in the same denial that you guys are. He admits he went to reporters with covert intel, but claims he never told them anything, and that there was nothing that should have been covert in the intel anyway, so he, of course, had every right to compromise it. Laughable - as if that makes any difference. But he never went to jail. Again, I don't understand why Snowden couldn't have done that - let alone why he had to defect with stolen intel.

Mysteriously, The Guardian never asks either Drake or Snowden about that...put Snowden in a room with a non biased reporter and he'd be begging for mercy.

And I keep asking why, out of all the thousands of other people with Snowden's clearance, no one else steps forward, if what Snowden is describing is so horrible. You guys need to season your hero-worship with a little rational perspective here - why just him?
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:49am PT
"And now, Snowden's headed for Venezuela - which has a worse record of oppression than any of you ever dreamed of existing here"

name one example???
jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:51am PT


Enjoy


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/edward-snowden-asylum-venezuela-93886.html
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:55am PT
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:56am PT
youve either got your head in a bucket or your a toy for the oil industry and its advertisers if youve got anything bad to say about hugo chavez accomplishments joe
jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 01:09am PT

Hahahaha - you guys are cute, with the squirming and denial and stuff

Try to think it through a little better next time, I guess - hopefully, realizing you can't form opinions based on ignorance will carry over from your internet fantasy world into real life, where adults actually have to deal with reality
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 11, 2013 - 01:17am PT
adults are afraid of a boogieman getting the bomb?!??!

christ joe,
you making ron look like a stand up decent guy at this point


Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 11, 2013 - 06:36am PT
The price of winning is too high.

I think we Americans should surrender this foolish notion. It's just football nonsense anyway, and football is a war game.

What is the price of freedom?

Answer: Freedom.

Freedom is its own legal tender. It can't be counterfeited.

DMT
jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 08:54am PT
Oh dear...



Since June 23, Snowden has been marooned somewhere in Russia, far out of reach of the U.S. government, which wants to put him on trial for exposing the secrets of U.S. intelligence agencies. The official story coming from the Russian government since then is that Snowden has been holed up in the transit zone of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport, waiting for some third country to grant him asylum. But few experts or officials in Moscow still believe that to be true. The accepted wisdom, unofficially acknowledged by most Western and Russian sources, is that Snowden was taken soon after his arrival — if not immediately — to a secure location run by some arm of the Russian government.

The reason has to do with the secret data Snowden stole from his former employers at American intelligence agencies. This data, which he can likely still access, would make him a high-value target for Russian spies. “Without a doubt, a person with inside knowledge like that, live and in the flesh, would be a very useful catch,” says Mikhail Lyubimov, a 20-year veteran of the KGB who headed the agency’s spying activities against the U.K. and Scandinavia in the 1970s. “He is carrying information of great importance.”



http://world.time.com/2013/07/10/snowden-in-moscow-what-are-russian-authorities-doing-with-the-nsa-whistleblower/#ixzz2Ykj8Y7ZF
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 11, 2013 - 09:20am PT
1984
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 11, 2013 - 09:44am PT
In the American newspaper world of spinning everything can serve as truth

"The extraordinary claim that China had drained the contents of Snowden's laptops first appeared in the New York Times in a June 24 article. The paper published the claim with no evidence and without any attribution to any identified sources.

In lieu of any evidence, the NYT circulated this obviously significant assertion by quoting what it called "two Western intelligence experts" who "worked for major government spy agencies". Those "experts" were not identified. The article then stated that these experts "said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong" (emphasis added).

So that's how this "China-drained-his-laptops" claim was created: by the New York Times citing two anonymous sources saying they "believed" this happened. From there, it predictably spread everywhere as truth."
WBraun

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 09:52am PT
From there, it predictably spread everywhere as truth.

Which Hedge regurgitates here ad nauseam believing its all real since he really knows nothing.

Hedge loves "anonymous sources" too.

As dumb as a Republican he so always calls.

Stupid ......
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 11, 2013 - 09:56am PT
christ joe,
you making ron look like a stand up decent guy at this point


jghedge's opinion of posters to this thread:

jghedge:
God, you f*#king people are worthless human trash.

Anyone with this value system doesn't have the slightest concern for anyone else's rights or freedoms. What sort of dialogue do you expect from someone with this worldview?
jghedge

climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 10:00am PT
I wrote that? Where?

Oh, found it. It was in response to this:

"Someday terrorists will get a nuke and blow up Washingto DC or NY. Inevitable. It will happen with or without this data mining. Well unless there is no point by then to attack America."


Yup, that was deserved. Basically confirmed what I already suspected. Some of you'd be happy if we lost a major pop center. All the more reason to ignore your ignorance, and the opinions based on it.


Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 11, 2013 - 11:01am PT
The pattern (repeated):

"In the immediate aftermath of the atomic bomb, the allied occupation authorities banned all mention of radiation poisoning and insisted that people had been killed or injured only by the bomb's blast. It was the first big lie. "No radioactivity in Hiroshima ruin" said the front page of the New York Times, a classic of disinformation and journalistic abdication, which the Australian reporter Wilfred Burchett put right with his scoop of the century. "I write this as a warning to the world," reported Burchett in the Daily Express, having reached Hiroshima after a perilous journey, the first correspondent to dare. He described hospital wards filled with people with no visible injuries but who were dying from what he called "an atomic plague". For telling this truth, his press accreditation was withdrawn, he was pilloried and smeared - and vindicated."
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