risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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Messages 1261 - 1280 of total 1805 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:58am PT
You don't care???

Funny, you sure do seem to be spending an inordinate ammount of time defending something you don't care about.

Pfffft . . .
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:02am PT
The stupid Hedge's of the world conspire with other hedge's of the world to bully, beat the sh!t out of everyone on the planet for their own greedy selves.

Then when those people fight back they call them terrorists that the Hedge's of the world originally created.

The hedge's of the world then create a huge draconian surveillance system which really is a illusionary wall to create the illusion that protects them from the source of their own creation.

Stupidest people on the planet have created this phoney illusionary garbage and have been peddling this garbage for a long time.

People are waking up to these stupid retards running the world into the ground ......



Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:27am PT
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/07/02/cia-whistleblower-john-kiriakous-open-letter-to-edward-snowden/

'Former CIA officer John Kiriakou, who is serving a thirty-month sentence in prison in Loretto, Pennsylvania, has written another letter. It expresses support for former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who has exposed secret US government surveillance programs and policies, and provided a glimpse of the ever-expanding massive surveillance apparatus the government has built.

Kiriakou was the first member of the CIA to publicly acknowledge that torture was official US policy under the administration of President George W. Bush.'


Transcript:

“Letter From Loretto”

An Open Letter to Edward Snowden

Dear Ed:

Thank you for your revelations of government wrong-doing over the past week. You have done the country a great public service. I know that it feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders right now, but as Americans begin to realize that we are devolving into a police state, with the loss of civil liberties that entails, they will see your actions for what they are: heroic. Remember the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln: “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” That is what’s happening to our country now. Your whistleblowing will help to save us.

I wanted to offer you the benefit of my own whistleblowing experience and aftermath so that you don’t make the same mistakes that I made.

First, find the best national security attorneys money can buy. I was blessed to be represented by legal titans and, although I was forced to take a plea in the end, the shortness of my sentence is a testament to their expertise.

Second, establish a website so that your supporters can follow your case, get your side of the story, and most importantly, make donations to support your defense.

Third, you’re going to need the support of prominent Americans and groups who can explain to the public why what you did is so important. Although most members of Congress are mindless lemmings following our national security leadership over a cliff, there are several clear thinkers on The Hill who could be important sources of support. Cultivate them. Reach out to the American Civil Liberties Union, the Government Accountability Project and others like them who value our individual freedoms and who can advise you.

Finally, and this is the most important advice that I can offer, DO NOT, under any circumstances, cooperate with the FBI. FBI agents will lie, trick, and deceive you. They will twist your words and play on your patriotism to entrap you. They will pretend to be people they are not – supporters, well-wishers, and friends – all the while wearing wires to record your out-of-context statements to use against you. The FBI is the enemy; it’s a part of the problem, not the solution.

I wish you the very best of luck. I hope you can get to Iceland quickly and safely. There you will find a people and a government who care about the freedoms that we hold dear and for which our forefathers and veterans fought and died.

Sincerely,
John Kiriakou
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
A few weeks ago in NYC, not long after the NSA domestic spying story broke, I was talking with a climbing friend who is a member in good standing in society, has a long term medical practice in the community, landowner, a family, kids, etc. He hasn't been following the NSA story in detail, but had an interesting story to relate.

About 15 years ago he applied for both a handgun carry permit and premiss/target permit in NYC. NYC doesn't like to issue handgun carry permits to resident citizens unless they are politically connected and/or very wealthy, or conversely their job absolutely requires it (for ex. armed guard). Handgun premiss/target permits on the other hand are obtainable, but the police begrudge even that making the applicant jump through endless and expensive hoops, and many applicants as a matter of course have their applications rejected for no valid reason (all of this gross infringement of 2nd amendment rights but that's NYC) necessitating an appeal. Either type of handgun permit cost a good amount of non-refundable money to apply for (which must be renewed every three years with the same very high fee in the hundreds of dollars), there's a lot of paperwork to fill out, a police interview, and an FBI background check all mandatory on any pistol permit application.

My friend says he's sitting at a desk in an office at police headquarters being interviewed by a police detective regarding his handgun permit application and there's a really fat folder on the desk between them. At one point the detective leaves the room. My friend contemplates the folder. The detective hasn't returned. He quickly flips open the folder. There's some photos. Two of these photos are of a huge crowd of people. What could that be? He looks inquisitively. He sees an image of himself identified in the crowds. Shocked and surprised, he's racking his brain trying to figure out where the photos were taken. He realizes they are pictures of public protests from about twenty years prior. One an anti-war march; one for the legalization of pot. He didn't get any deeper into the file because he was concerned about the detective returning and he hurriedly flipped the folder shut.

He relayed to me that that he was thinking, WTF?! The FBI has surveillance photos of him identified in constitutionally protected protest marches? Kept on file? What else is in the file? He said he'd only protested very few times, in his twenties, very casually just to show his support without any further commitment or agenda. It wasn't his thing and he's never heavily been involved in politics.

No matter, the FBI was surveilling him.

If the FBI went to the trouble back then to identify him and keep intel on him, what are they doing now, with increased funding and a diverse arsenal of high technology surveillance systems, secret orders from the government and secret collection points at all our electronic communications words, speech, files, pictures, sophisticated analysis, face recognition software, vast intel storage super-sites, etc., etc?


He hasn't dug deeper into the NSA story. His opinion is that 'the government has always been doing this.'

The notion that all this surveillance exists for one purpose, and one purpose only - to prevent terrorism - is inexcusably naive.



PS: The police formally and officially informed my friend that his application for a handgun carry permit was denied. Shortly thereafter he received in the mail what he expected was his premiss/target permit ... only the police had made a mistake and issued him the carry permit by accident!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
^^^ Totally creepy story, Lovegasoline.


Yes, incredibly naive to think the blanket surveillance is for "terrorism." And equally naive to think they are collecting only metadata.


FWIW, my favorite definition of metadata is: data about data.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Gen. Keith Alexander, director the NSA: “Rather than look for a single needle in the haystack, his approach was, ‘Let’s collect the whole haystack,’ ” said one former senior U.S. intelligence official who tracked the plan’s implementation. “Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . . And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it.”

"Numerous NSA documents we've already published demonstrate that the NSA's goal is to collect, monitor and store every telephone and internet communication that takes place inside the US and on the earth. It already collects billions of calls and emails every single day. Still another former NSA whistleblower, the mathematician William Binney, has said that the NSA has "assembled on the order of 20 trillion transactions about US citizens with other US citizens" and that "estimate only was involving phone calls and emails."

The NSA is constantly seeking to expand its capabilities without limits. They're currently storing so much, and preparing to store so much more, that they have to build a massive, sprawling new facility in Utah just to hold all the communications from inside the US and around the world that they are collecting - communications they then have the physical ability to invade any time they want ("Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . . And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it").

That is the definition of a ubiquitous surveillance state - and it's been built in the dark, without the knowledge of the American people or people around the world, even though it's aimed at them. How anyone could think this should have all remained concealed - that it would have been better had it just been left to fester and grow in the dark - is truly mystifying.

Perhaps the coining of a punchy phrase by the Washington Post to describe all of this - "collect it all" - will help those DC media figures who keep lamenting their own refusal to cover the substance of the NSA stories begin to figure out why they should cover the substance and how they can. The rest of the world is having no trouble focusing on the substance of these revelations - rather than the trivial dramas surrounding the person who enabled us to know of all this - and discussing why those revelations are so disturbing. Perhaps US media figures can now follow that example."
crøtch

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:35pm PT

from
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/nsa-affaere-jimmy-carter-kritisiert-usa-a-911589.html
translated by google

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter was in the wake of the NSA Spähskandals criticized the American political system. "America has no functioning democracy," Carter said Tuesday at a meeting of the "Atlantic Bridge" in Atlanta.

Previously, the Democrat had been very critical of the practices of U.S. intelligence. "I think the invasion of privacy has gone too far," Carter told CNN. "And I think that is why the secrecy was excessive." Overlooking the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden said Carter, whose revelations were long "likely to be useful because they inform the public."
Carter has repeatedly warned that the United States sharply declined due to excessive restriction of civil rights, their moral authority. Last year he wrote in an article in the "New York Times", new U.S. laws "never before seen breach our privacy by the government" allowed the.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 17, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
Good one crotch. Wonder why english language news agencies aren't picking it up?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
Now we have "three hops", and this:

"The statute says 'collection'," congressman Jerrold Nadler told Cole. "You're trying to confuse us by talking use."


Also:

"You're going to lose it entirely,"



Read all about it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/17/nsa-surveillance-house-hearing
crøtch

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
I'd love to see a full English transcript of the remarks Carter made yesterday, Don Paul. My German friend turned me on to Carter's statement. It's startling when a living former president says that there is no democracy in the US. Was he talking about Congressional gridlock or NSA spying? More context is needed.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
From the comments section of the Guardian news article, NSA warned to rein in surveillance as agency reveals even greater scope (referenced four posts up by k-man) regarding the House panel on the NSA:


"NSA has confirmed that it monitors three (3) degrees of separation (hops) from a suspect.
As we are all 4.74 degrees of separation from each other (source: University of Milan), not the 6 degrees that's popularly believed, the NSA has likely monitored everyone on earth whom uses electronic transmission devices (phone, internet, etc) since it began this monitoring."



Separating You and Me? 4.74 Degrees

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/technology/between-you-and-me-4-74-degrees.html?_r=0
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
More from the Guardian article referenced above:

'Inglis, Cole and Robert Litt, the senior legal counsel for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, also argued that the surveillance activities were restricted by the oversight of Congress and the Fisa court. Legislators challenged both contentions.

Congressman Spencer Bachus said he "was not aware at all" of the extent of the surveillance, since the NSA programs were primarily briefed to the intelligence committees of the House and Senate.

Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren revealed that an annual report provided to Congress by the government about the phone-records collection, something cited by intelligence officials as an example of their disclosures to Congress, is "less than a single page and not more than eight sentences".'


... And this in the comments section:

'If the congress wants more details about the details into NSA programs beyond the "less than a single page and not more than eight sentences" disclosure they've received from the NSA, there's a great source for them to contact - he's currently in the Sheremetyevo transit lounge.
Seriously, if there's no current dialogue between congress and Snowden, there needs to be. Why not go direct to the source?'

Lol!
And not a bad idea.

Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
Another of the readers comments from the aforementioned Guardian article:

'The three hop theory applies to when they get solid negatives in their results.
Once any of the hops reveal any fabricated connection, they then get a renewed three -hops to continue. So in theory, the hops can cascade without limit, just so lone [sic] as any portion of any hop justifies the next three hops.'


While perhaps the majority population are either oblivious, uninterested, and/or in a state massive collective denial, these recent quasi-obfuscated admissions from the NSA regarding 'hops' once examined and deciphered appear to confirm what Edward Snowden's whistle blowing states explicitly:

"Any analyst at any time can target anyone, any selector, anywhere. Where those communications will be picked up depends on the range of the sensor networks and the authorities that analyst is empowered with. Not all analysts have the ability to target everything. But I sitting at my desk certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a Federal judge to even the President if I had a personal e-mail."
-Edward Snowden

Remember, that's the crux of Snowden's whistle blowing. The critical importance of making that known to the U.S. public is the value he's placed on his safety and his future.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Why is The Guardian the only source for all this?

Am I really supposed to believe in this entrenched-interest angle that's supposedly keeping Congress and the MSM from getting involved?


Because the Guardian lies like the FBI, is that's what you're insinuating Joe?

We quote FBI agents, and Joe's reply is "They lie." The Guardian runs an article, and Joe's reply is "we trust one guy?" Watch out Joe, there's only so much sand to stick your head into, and those climate change denier's already have the Sahara sewn up.
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Snowden compromised nothing at all.

Stupid people here don't realize he's revealed nothing new that wasn't already revealed years ago while all you stupid fools were asleep at the wheel.

All he revealed was already revealed for years.

Except you stupid fools labeled it as a conspiracy theory.

Now that the MSM actually made it front page news people became shocked like it was something no one ever knew.

Americans are so stupid .....
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
It's time Joe.

Go to the bank, take out all your money, and buy a clue.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/17-9

Is two sources enough, or do you still need more proof this happened. Geeze...
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
The extended metaphorical implication of the recent NSA's admissions on the extent of the domestic spying is that as it stands, every United States citizen is a 'suspect' based on communication chains.

Rhetorical question:
What is such a modus operandi capable of producing?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:23pm PT

The Citizens United case held that corporations can make unlimited campaign contributions because they have freedom of speech. Carter has also referred to this as legal bribery.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
Let's go down the rabbit hole....

"Hippity hop, hippity hop, hippity hop....
If Osama bin Laden called the New York Times, and I also called the New York Times around the same time, then everybody else that I called or who called me on my cellphone or business line or engaged in email correspondence with is also within a NSA "three hop query" from a man accused of mass murder and crimes against humanity.
If Edward Snowden communicated with Glenn Greenwald, and I also communicated with Glenn Greenwald around the same time, then everybody else that I called or who called me on my cellphone or business line or engaged in email correspondence with is also within a NSA "three hop query" from a man charged with violating the Espionage Act.
Hippity hop, hippity hop, hippity hop....."

-Another thoughtful reader comment ; )
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
Nobody steps forward to blow the whistle because they see how those that do get bent over and aşşfuked without vaseline. As expected there's no one waiting in line volunteering.
The reason why Snowden had to leave the country to speak out and I concur it was a wise decision.
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