risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 16, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
"Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms way any intelligence agent..."


Exactly what I've been saying all along.

If by exactly you mean 'he DID leak intelligence' then... sure... point... conceded.

DMT
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jul 16, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
Are you begining to smell the fish???
WBraun

climber
Jul 16, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
The guy who cries the loudest and the most knows the least. ^^^^

That's why he needs so much attention.

It's a known fact ......
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 16, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
werner wrote/spoke/
The guy who cries the loudest and the most knows the least. ^^^^

That's why he needs so much attention.

It's a known fact ......

i think you mean guy's and girl's!


shmowden will either be killed by f-35's during his so called amnesty transport or remain in moscow.

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 17, 2013 - 12:08am PT

Former Justice attorney seeks $23 billion in damages for NSA surveillance programs

By Josh Hicks, Published: June 13 at 6:00
the writer is aformer Reagan-era Justice Department prosecutor who runs a right-leaning political-advocacy group is suing the federal government over its controversial electronic-surveillance programs.

Activist attorney Larry Klayman filed two class-action lawsuits this week in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking a combined $23 billion in damages.

Klayman, who founded the political advocacy group Freedom Watch, claims the National Security Administration surveillance programs that monitor phone data and Internet communications violate citizens’ reasonable expectation of privacy, as well as their rights to free speech and freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures.

“Government dishonesty and tyranny against the people have reached historic proportion,” Klayman said in a statement. “The time has come for ‘We the People’ to rise up and reclaim control of our nation.”

Former Booz Allen Hamilton contractor Edward Joseph Snowden leaked details of the surveillance programs to the Washington Post and Guardian newspaper of Britain.

Klayman named the NSA, the Justice Deparment, President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder and 12 communications and Internet companies as defendants in a class-action lawsuit he filed on Wednesday. In that case, he seeks $20 billion in damages, as well as orders to stop the surveillance programs and eliminate any records collected through them.

Earlier in the week, Klayman filed a separate lawsuit against Verizon and the Obama administration, requesting the same orders in addition to $3 billion in damages.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) has also threatened to file a class-action lawsuit against the Obama administration for its surveillance programs.

“I’m going to be seeing if I can challenge this at the Supreme Court level,” Paul said on “Fox News Sunday.” “I’m going to be asking all the Internet providers and all of the phone companies, ask your customers to join me in a class action lawsuit. If we get 10 million Americans saying we don’t want our phone records looked at, then somebody will wake up and say things will change in Washington.”

Obama has defended the NSA surveillance programs, saying the government does not collect information on individual callers or eavesdrop on Americans’ conversations without a warrant. Gen. Keith Alexander, head of the NSA, said during a Senate hearing on Wednesday that the surveillance programs have thwarted dozens of terrorist plots.

Klayman, who describes himself as “the one man Tea Party” in his bio, is no stranger to lawsuits against the federal government. He filed at least 18 against the Clinton administration, according to a 1998 Washington Post article by David Segal.

Klayman authored the book “Whores: Why and How I Came to Fight the Establishment.” He also served as the basis for the character Harry Klaypool in the NBC series “West Wing,” according to his bio.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/06/13/former-justice-prosecutor-seeks-23-billion-in-damages-for-nsa-surveillance-programs/
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Poor Joe is at the end of the dead end alley spinning around in circles babbling incoherently.

This is what happens to people who get lost and lose their minds ......
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:02am PT
I'm not interested at all in Snowden.

But you are.

You're sucked into the illusion ......
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:05am PT
Intel gave Snowden away weeks ago.

You missed the boat all along.

This is what happens to people lost in the dead end alleys .......
crøtch

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 02:54am PT
"Further, no intelligence service - not even our own - has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect."

That means he's used encryption that can't be broken in a timely fashion through brute force. It's likely that the keys aren't in his possession, and more than one key from multiple sources is required to decrypt the data.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:37am PT
I'm coming around to this Snowden guy. What a big pile of sh#t he revealed.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:55am PT
Guess what - they (the ops the stolen intel refers to) have to be canceled anyway.

That's really too bad. Boo hoo. The make believe convert operations got make believe cancellations.

Oh dear... How WILL I feel safe now???

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:10am PT
Amazing how one little man can bring down the NSA. Imagine all the other ways this massive spy agency gets compromised every day, by its own employees.

DMT
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:30am PT
If you believe Mr. Snowden was acting alone . . . well . . .

jhedge, could you please explain WHY we need covert ops that have no effective oversight or accountability?

Your whole arguement is predicated upon this one big assumption: We NEED all this secret BS. Are you really that blind to the potential for abuse of such programs? What is your apparent trust in the beneficance of our government based on?
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:49am PT
C'mon, you're avoiding the question.

Why? For starters, I wonder how much money is going down this black hole that could be used to do something productive.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jul 17, 2013 - 08:58am PT
You don't care???

Funny, you sure do seem to be spending an inordinate ammount of time defending something you don't care about.

Pfffft . . .
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:02am PT
The stupid Hedge's of the world conspire with other hedge's of the world to bully, beat the sh!t out of everyone on the planet for their own greedy selves.

Then when those people fight back they call them terrorists that the Hedge's of the world originally created.

The hedge's of the world then create a huge draconian surveillance system which really is a illusionary wall to create the illusion that protects them from the source of their own creation.

Stupidest people on the planet have created this phoney illusionary garbage and have been peddling this garbage for a long time.

People are waking up to these stupid retards running the world into the ground ......



Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:27am PT
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/07/02/cia-whistleblower-john-kiriakous-open-letter-to-edward-snowden/

'Former CIA officer John Kiriakou, who is serving a thirty-month sentence in prison in Loretto, Pennsylvania, has written another letter. It expresses support for former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who has exposed secret US government surveillance programs and policies, and provided a glimpse of the ever-expanding massive surveillance apparatus the government has built.

Kiriakou was the first member of the CIA to publicly acknowledge that torture was official US policy under the administration of President George W. Bush.'


Transcript:

“Letter From Loretto”

An Open Letter to Edward Snowden

Dear Ed:

Thank you for your revelations of government wrong-doing over the past week. You have done the country a great public service. I know that it feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders right now, but as Americans begin to realize that we are devolving into a police state, with the loss of civil liberties that entails, they will see your actions for what they are: heroic. Remember the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln: “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” That is what’s happening to our country now. Your whistleblowing will help to save us.

I wanted to offer you the benefit of my own whistleblowing experience and aftermath so that you don’t make the same mistakes that I made.

First, find the best national security attorneys money can buy. I was blessed to be represented by legal titans and, although I was forced to take a plea in the end, the shortness of my sentence is a testament to their expertise.

Second, establish a website so that your supporters can follow your case, get your side of the story, and most importantly, make donations to support your defense.

Third, you’re going to need the support of prominent Americans and groups who can explain to the public why what you did is so important. Although most members of Congress are mindless lemmings following our national security leadership over a cliff, there are several clear thinkers on The Hill who could be important sources of support. Cultivate them. Reach out to the American Civil Liberties Union, the Government Accountability Project and others like them who value our individual freedoms and who can advise you.

Finally, and this is the most important advice that I can offer, DO NOT, under any circumstances, cooperate with the FBI. FBI agents will lie, trick, and deceive you. They will twist your words and play on your patriotism to entrap you. They will pretend to be people they are not – supporters, well-wishers, and friends – all the while wearing wires to record your out-of-context statements to use against you. The FBI is the enemy; it’s a part of the problem, not the solution.

I wish you the very best of luck. I hope you can get to Iceland quickly and safely. There you will find a people and a government who care about the freedoms that we hold dear and for which our forefathers and veterans fought and died.

Sincerely,
John Kiriakou
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jul 17, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
A few weeks ago in NYC, not long after the NSA domestic spying story broke, I was talking with a climbing friend who is a member in good standing in society, has a long term medical practice in the community, landowner, a family, kids, etc. He hasn't been following the NSA story in detail, but had an interesting story to relate.

About 15 years ago he applied for both a handgun carry permit and premiss/target permit in NYC. NYC doesn't like to issue handgun carry permits to resident citizens unless they are politically connected and/or very wealthy, or conversely their job absolutely requires it (for ex. armed guard). Handgun premiss/target permits on the other hand are obtainable, but the police begrudge even that making the applicant jump through endless and expensive hoops, and many applicants as a matter of course have their applications rejected for no valid reason (all of this gross infringement of 2nd amendment rights but that's NYC) necessitating an appeal. Either type of handgun permit cost a good amount of non-refundable money to apply for (which must be renewed every three years with the same very high fee in the hundreds of dollars), there's a lot of paperwork to fill out, a police interview, and an FBI background check all mandatory on any pistol permit application.

My friend says he's sitting at a desk in an office at police headquarters being interviewed by a police detective regarding his handgun permit application and there's a really fat folder on the desk between them. At one point the detective leaves the room. My friend contemplates the folder. The detective hasn't returned. He quickly flips open the folder. There's some photos. Two of these photos are of a huge crowd of people. What could that be? He looks inquisitively. He sees an image of himself identified in the crowds. Shocked and surprised, he's racking his brain trying to figure out where the photos were taken. He realizes they are pictures of public protests from about twenty years prior. One an anti-war march; one for the legalization of pot. He didn't get any deeper into the file because he was concerned about the detective returning and he hurriedly flipped the folder shut.

He relayed to me that that he was thinking, WTF?! The FBI has surveillance photos of him identified in constitutionally protected protest marches? Kept on file? What else is in the file? He said he'd only protested very few times, in his twenties, very casually just to show his support without any further commitment or agenda. It wasn't his thing and he's never heavily been involved in politics.

No matter, the FBI was surveilling him.

If the FBI went to the trouble back then to identify him and keep intel on him, what are they doing now, with increased funding and a diverse arsenal of high technology surveillance systems, secret orders from the government and secret collection points at all our electronic communications words, speech, files, pictures, sophisticated analysis, face recognition software, vast intel storage super-sites, etc., etc?


He hasn't dug deeper into the NSA story. His opinion is that 'the government has always been doing this.'

The notion that all this surveillance exists for one purpose, and one purpose only - to prevent terrorism - is inexcusably naive.



PS: The police formally and officially informed my friend that his application for a handgun carry permit was denied. Shortly thereafter he received in the mail what he expected was his premiss/target permit ... only the police had made a mistake and issued him the carry permit by accident!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
^^^ Totally creepy story, Lovegasoline.


Yes, incredibly naive to think the blanket surveillance is for "terrorism." And equally naive to think they are collecting only metadata.


FWIW, my favorite definition of metadata is: data about data.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Gen. Keith Alexander, director the NSA: “Rather than look for a single needle in the haystack, his approach was, ‘Let’s collect the whole haystack,’ ” said one former senior U.S. intelligence official who tracked the plan’s implementation. “Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . . And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it.”

"Numerous NSA documents we've already published demonstrate that the NSA's goal is to collect, monitor and store every telephone and internet communication that takes place inside the US and on the earth. It already collects billions of calls and emails every single day. Still another former NSA whistleblower, the mathematician William Binney, has said that the NSA has "assembled on the order of 20 trillion transactions about US citizens with other US citizens" and that "estimate only was involving phone calls and emails."

The NSA is constantly seeking to expand its capabilities without limits. They're currently storing so much, and preparing to store so much more, that they have to build a massive, sprawling new facility in Utah just to hold all the communications from inside the US and around the world that they are collecting - communications they then have the physical ability to invade any time they want ("Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . . And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it").

That is the definition of a ubiquitous surveillance state - and it's been built in the dark, without the knowledge of the American people or people around the world, even though it's aimed at them. How anyone could think this should have all remained concealed - that it would have been better had it just been left to fester and grow in the dark - is truly mystifying.

Perhaps the coining of a punchy phrase by the Washington Post to describe all of this - "collect it all" - will help those DC media figures who keep lamenting their own refusal to cover the substance of the NSA stories begin to figure out why they should cover the substance and how they can. The rest of the world is having no trouble focusing on the substance of these revelations - rather than the trivial dramas surrounding the person who enabled us to know of all this - and discussing why those revelations are so disturbing. Perhaps US media figures can now follow that example."
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