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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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The point is that solar energy doesn't have the inherent risk if something fails that nuclear energy does.
True, but it has inherent limitations. Several.
Once you tree-huggers realize we need conventional "old-school" backups, the sooner we may be totally green. Once everything is perfected.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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San Onofre maybe closed down but it remains a very long term cleanup ( many decades) at a very high expense; and if they are storing fuel there it is probably still a high risk to the immediate region while it generates no power. Obviously they did not care about the cradle to grave formula when they built it. How much is it going to cost to watch it for the next 50 to 100 years ? What a stupid thing to build?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Obviously they did not care about the cradle to grave formula when they built it. How much is it going to cost to watch it for the next 50 to 100 years ? What a stupid thing to build?
Kinda like our current "high-speed rail" project?
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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NO; not kinda like that.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I worked in a nuclear reactor in Idaho's Arco Desert...and I admit to melancholia about San Onofre's impending closure.
But given public opinion and the media's exploitation of the populace's lack of knowledge about radiation...nuclear energy may not be right for California simply because the PANIC in crowded places aspect.
Yes, be wary of nuclear energy...but be much more vigilant of the nuclear hysterics who whip up fear and frenzy in the wake of Fukushima-like disasters.
The Fukushima disaster was hyped by activists such as Peter Garrett, now a Gillard Government minister, who claimed it "caused the deaths of more than 30,000 people".
The Australian Conservation Foundation published a paper claiming 250,000 died. Caldicott said it was "nearly a million".
...but there were no deaths caused by radiation exposure, according to the World Health Organization. (Though approximately 18,500 people died due to the earthquake and tsunami)
Hundreds commited suicide in Japan...a country with an already high suicide rate. The International Atomic Energy Agency estimated up to 200,000 European women were made so scared they aborted their babies after the disaster.
Alarmists can be deadlier than radiation.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Vis a vis Ivanopah,
What happens when the sun goes down and all the lights come on?
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John M
climber
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Commercial solar is part of an equation which needs to include other forms of energy production. Peak demand is from noon to six from May to October according to PG&E.
Instead of a single flat rate for energy use, time-of-use rates are higher when electric demand is higher. This means when you use energy is just as important as how much you use.
Winter has two rate periods: off-peak and partial-peak. Summer has three: off-peak, partial-peak and peak. During peak periods, defined as weekdays from noon to 6 p.m., May through October, your business’ electric rates will be the highest. In return, time-of-use rates at all other times will be lower than the peak rate.
All business customers will transition to time-of-use rates as required by the California Public Utilities Commission.
To learn more about peak periods and how time-of-use works, see the Time-of-Use Frequently Asked Questions section.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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The United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation said none of the Japanese public is likely to get sick from the 2011 incident, when the tsunami smashed into the Fukushima reactor.
"It is unlikely to be able to attribute any health effects in the future among the general public and the vast majority of workers," UNSCEAR it said.
"No radiation-related deaths or acute effects have been observed among nearly 25,000 workers . . . It is unlikely that excess cases of thyroid cancer due to radiation exposure would be detectable."
But yes, it's your state, close down San Onofre. A major environmental concern is S.O's "once-thru" cooling system that scalds to death large quantities of marine life.
And yes, because the organization generalship tried to cut costs buying inferior generators...in an industry where gouging by contractors begets astronimical expenditures.
But be discerning giving anti-nuclear alarmists the free ride they've been enjoying ...at sensibility's expense.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Have you worked in the nuclear industry, Mr Wyna?
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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GE was working on a design very similar to Ivanpah in late 1970's and then Raygun won the election in 1980 and discontinued the energy dept the first day in office and the funding for alternative energy sources. Was Carter 35 years too early ?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Carter was just incompetent.
his policies gave a cloak of legitimacy to every imature technology and snake oil salesman.
Homeowners were snookered into buying solar water heaters that didn't work
Businessmen into purchasing "energy saving" equipment (particularly lighting technology) that didn't work, wouldn't produce the promised savings or failed prematurely.
It took 20 years for legitimate technologies to recover from the taring they got (by association) in the Carter years.
Too many got burned and "energy saving" became a synonym for "Scam"
I was there and saw it firsthand.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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The UN can't be trusted when it comes to Nuclear accident statistics. They also said that Chernobyl didn't cause any deaths while there were 5000 case of thyroid cancer in KIDS alone
There are prominent Russian scientists that claim hundreds of thousands died from cancer due to Chernobyl and the New York Academy of science published their book
"Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment was published by the New York Academy of Sciences.
It is authored by three noted scientists:
Russian biologist Dr. Alexey Yablokov, former environmental advisor to the Russian president;
Dr. Alexey Nesterenko, a biologist and ecologist in Belarus; and
Dr.Vassili Nesterenko, a physicist and at the time of the accident director of the Institute of Nuclear Energy of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus.
Its editor is Dr. Janette Sherman, a physician and toxicologist long involved in studying the health impacts of radioactivity.
The book is solidly based — on health data, radiological surveys and scientific reports — some 5,000 in all.
It concludes that based on records now available, some 985,000 people died, mainly of cancer, as a result of the Chernobyl accident. That is between when the accident occurred in 1986 and 2004. More deaths, it projects, will follow.
The book explodes the claim of the International Atomic Energy Agency– still on its website that the expected death toll from the Chernobyl accident will be 4,000. The IAEA, the new book shows, is under-estimating, to the extreme, the casualties of Chernobyl.
Of course there are more conservative estimates that still outpace the UN
The Belarus National Academy of Sciences estimates 270,000 people in the region around the accident site will develop cancer as a result of Chernobyl radiation and that 93,000 of those cases are likely to be fatal.
Another report by the Center for Independent Environmental Assessment of the Russian Academy of Sciences found a dramatic increase in mortality since 1990—60,000 deaths in Russia and an estimated 140,000 deaths in Ukraine and Belarus—probably due to Chernobyl radiation.
Obviously they did not care about the cradle to grave formula when they built it. How much is it going to cost to watch it for the next 50 to 100 years ? What a stupid thing to build?
Yeah, if the Romans at the time of Christ had nuclear power, we'd still be guarding their waste. How do you put those sort of numbers on the accounting books?
Which is exactly why nuclear power, with today's technology is foolishness, like giving revolvers and 3 hits of acid each to a group of 10 year olds
Peace
Karl
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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San Onofre maybe closed down but it remains a very long term cleanup ( many decades) at a very high expense;
The actual demolition of the San Onofre reactor complex likely won't take more than ten years. But Edison will probably mothball the facility a few decades...allowing faster decaying isotopes to disintegrate and result in lower rad doses for workers and thus, more effective work intervals.
I participated in the last phases of the ETR Reactor decommisioning, decontamination and demolition, which took about three years. This reactor had set idle since 1982.
Of course, the ETR was a much smaller reactor and being located significant distance from populated areas in eastern Idaho simplified the dismantling. The disassembly process came in well under cost estimates... but, yes, the San Onofre complex will cost billions to take down...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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One of the SONGS reactors has already been decommissioned and removed several years ago with no incidents.
I wonder how much this is going to cost Mitsubishi Heavy Industries in the law suits?
If they hadn't completely screwed the pooch on the steam generator replacement the plant would have had another 20 years or so of life left in it.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Carter was just incompetent.
his policies gave a cloak of legitimacy to every imature technology and snake oil salesman.
So Carter started the Department of Energy that funded alternative energy research into energy production and Reagon cancels it. So GE's scientists go back to inventing more lethal weapons rather than working on solar.
Reagan appears to be the true incompetent.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 10, 2013 - 12:29am PT
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Forgive me, PSP, if I misunderstood your posts
President Reagan didn't terminate the Department of Energy. It remained during his administration and continues vigorously to the present with energy related research and production, energy conservation and safety, oversight of nuclear weapons among other concerns...
Some presidential candidates have proposed DOE's demise but it has prevailed since President Carter organized it in 1977.
Again, perhaps you meant something else...
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jun 10, 2013 - 10:23am PT
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Thanks for that link, Granite. Their storage plans had not shown up in the stuff I have read so far. One could only assume the plant just stopped producing while dark.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 10, 2013 - 11:04am PT
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Alarmist? Radiation is the number one threat to the planet whether it be from the military or industry or even outerspace.
no alarm with riley! hahaha
obviously the solution for most of the californians is to turn the mofo lights out so they can't waste energy by posting this drivel.
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