"FISTICUFFS ON EVEREST" - The Daily Fail at it again

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PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 6, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
The old experienced sherpas should kick the the sherpas out that blew it by resorting to violence. That would go a long way to taking responsibility for a big mistake. Throwing rocks into someone's tent to make them come out is absurd. It is one thing to yell at each other etc. but the violence stepped so far over the line that all the other issues become minor.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 6, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
Remember Ron the Everest you are referring to is on piste
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 6, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
On piste is like being on a run at the ski area
Off piste is everywhere else
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 6, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
Interesting point PSP. I've speculated that one of the effects of this episode might be to create a generation gap among Sherpas. More to the point perhaps, will be what the Nepal Mountaineering Association and the guide services who employed them do. The Asian wide preference for anything that is unpleasant is to ignore it and pretend it never happened, so that might well be what occurs here.

I don't think we will know until the Sherpa teams are chosen next spring what the long terms effects will be. The guide company owners are in a tough spot if they try to fire these guys and they seek retaliation although at that point they could be put in jail. Anyway, the repurcussions will be around for a long time.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
May 6, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
From Lhakpa Sherpa

http://himalayanascent.com/live-blog.html

As eluded by others, the fixing team were venting the frustration of all highly skilled and experienced Sherpa climbers who want to feel more respect from their fellow western colleagues. For years they have quietly suffered and endured arrogance displayed by some western guides and professional climbers.

So what you are saying is that you picked three foreign climbers to vent your years of frustration by assembling a mob of 100 Sherpas and trying to stone them to death. I guess that about says it all.

Hint to everybody else: Stop trying to make excuses for the behavior of the Sherpas. You now have a first-person account from one of the Sherpas who was there.
WBraun

climber
May 6, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
bhilden -- " ... a mob of 100 Sherpas and trying to stone them to death.

Lhakpa Sherpa -- "Reports claiming that 100-200 Sherpas attacked the 3 climbers are entirely FALSE."


bhilden you didn't even read.

You made up your own independent story.

Were you there?
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
May 6, 2013 - 09:29pm PT

Lhakpa Sherpa -- "Reports claiming that 100-200 Sherpas attacked the 3 climbers are entirely FALSE."

bhilden you didn't even read.

You made up your own independent story.

Were you there?

Werner,

Yes, I did read what Lhakpa wrote. Here is the expanded quote from your original quote:

"Reports claiming that 100-200 Sherpas attacked the 3 climbers are entirely FALSE. Only the fixing team were involved."

By most accounts, the fixing team was comprised of 17 Sherpas. So, we have conflicting reports on the exact number of Sherpas present in the mob. Lhakpa says 17, the multiple western reports say 100.

Maybe if Lhakpa had said something like 'members of the original fixing party plus some other Sherpas' I would be more inclined to believe him,
but he said 'only the fixing team were involved.' There is a huge discrepancy between 17 and 100 so somebody isn't telling the truth. I tend to believe the western reports since there are multiple, independent reports which say 100.

No, Werner, I wasn't there, but I also was not making anything up. I have spent a lot of time over the past week reading all the publicly available accounts so that when I participate in this discussion I can be as informed as possible.
klk

Trad climber
cali
May 6, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
from lahkpa's account

We also did not witness other claims that rocks were used to hit others

yeah, that may literally be true. maybe he didn't watch it.

maybe ueli cut himself shaving.

The fixing team threw rocks at the tent to get the group to come out. Some western guides ran to “protect” the group. One western guide tackled a Sherpa carrying a rock perhaps thinking he was going to throw it to hurt someone. Unfortunately, this first assault on the fixing team triggered them to respond aggressively.

another remarkable passage
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 6, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Check out these cool new super warm high altitude gloves from Black Diamond !

Climber Joe

Trad climber
May 6, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
I don't think that Jan's (doubtless well-intended) broad characterizations of Asian "communal" mentality and a preference for letting things just boil over, just to take two examples in this monster thread, are helpful or true. I'm Asian, if it makes any difference.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
May 7, 2013 - 12:06am PT
I prefer backcountry more than en piste.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 7, 2013 - 03:56am PT
So what you are saying is that you picked three foreign climbers to vent your years of frustration by assembling a mob of 100 Sherpas and trying to stone them to death. I guess that about says it all.

Hint to everybody else: Stop trying to make excuses for the behavior of the Sherpas. You now have a first-person account from one of the Sherpas who was there.

interesting lies that you tell. I like the stoning one, which no one has alleged......which you know, since you've read all the written accounts, right?

So we know you'll lie, if it furthers your agenda.

by the way, in terms of you instructing the group what they can and cannot say, you can kiss my *ss.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
May 7, 2013 - 09:20am PT
interesting lies that you tell. I like the stoning one, which no one has alleged......which you know, since you've read all the written accounts, right?

I guess throwing rocks at people, which has been described in all the accounts I have read, doesn't fit your definition of 'stoning.' It certainly fits mine. Ueli Steck has a gash in his head after a Sherpa hit him with a rock. What do you call that?
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
May 7, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Ken is an attorney looking to get a job representing the Sherpa's, maybe? What else could explain his ignorance?
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 7, 2013 - 09:56am PT
Justification for a little elitist attitude is getting your ass kicked
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
May 7, 2013 - 11:34am PT
Justification for a little elitist attitude is getting your ass kicked

Please expand on your comment.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 7, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
Clearly it was a difference of opinion. The Sherpas felt threatened and violated, the Westerners thought that they didn't do anything wrong (they clearly did by climbing near the Sherpas). The Sherpas HAD to be up there doing the work, whereas the Westerners WANTED to be there, but didn't have to be. The Sherpas might have overreacted, but the western climbers are now toeing the line and will perhaps be more considerate and think twice about endangering others it is hoped.



Stewart nailed it more than once, I'll add to this:
"On piste is like being on a run at the ski area, Off piste is everywhere else "

3rd line to add, what we have here is "Piste Off". That is all. Good day.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 7, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
bhilden - Hint to everybody else: Stop trying to make up excuses for the behavior of the Sherpas

Hint?!?! You have the gall to suggest such a thing? Are you serious? We are trying to make up excuses? We are trying to knock some sense into your hard and arrogant heads! But I'm beginning to fear that it's a hopeless case. Blindness ... I generally thought of it primarily aas being a physical characteristic or disability, evidently not. How can you be so obtuse, is it deliberate?

Please read again what you previously quoted Lhakpa Sherpa as stating, "For years they have quietly suffered and endured arrogance by some western guides and professional climbers."

Talk about "hints"! Get a clue!! From what I have heard and read, they have been giving a certain ilk subtle, and not so subtle, hints for quit some time.

Sixty (60) plus years of being an essential team member, of one degree or another, from the very first ascent. Who was on the summit with Hillary on the FA? I seriously doubt that he would have gotten there without Tenzing Norgay, let alone all the other Sherpa and porters, etc, it entailed!.

"...highly skilled and experienced Sherpa climbers..." They have finally arrived, and they did it in the most humble, dedicated and selfless way imaginable.

"A mob of 100 Sherpas trying to stone them to death."

Umm, I think if they were intent on stoning them to death they could have easily succeeded.

After years of subservience, and humbly paying their dues whilst often being on the receiving end of brash and arrogant disrespect, coupled with shameful abuse, they finally exploded. Everyone has their breaking point, even the most humble among us. But, talk about patience, like I said in my post up thread, "Personally, I think they should have kicked some ass a long time ago. Let everyone know who's boss."

I believe the international climbing community needs to sit down and look at the big picture in regards to Everest, at least on the Nepal side. Its past, present and future, how and why they have arrived at where they are today, and where it's all going. May need to change some attitudes, and perhaps show some long overdue gratitude and respect to those whom it is due.

edit: Burch3y - "...but it pains me when logic and fact is often tossed for emotion." -- on the contrary, there is much, much more going on here than unbridled emotion. Look at it in the context of the big picture, the history of arrogance and abuse (lets get real, they have been taken advantage of from the get go), etc!

Regardless, we have a problem that has been stewing for years. I suggest climbing down off of yer high horses and taking a long introspective as well as retrospective look at the situation. Because this doesn't bode well for either side in the current direction it is going.

EDIT: The idiom, "The chickens have come home to roost." comes to mind.

;)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 7, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Super climbers should not employ sherpa, not even to cook they're f*#king meals.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 7, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Why?

DMT
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