"FISTICUFFS ON EVEREST" - The Daily Fail at it again

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Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 6, 2013 - 03:14am PT
Sorry, armchair general. I was responding to those who talked about these elite climbers who didn't need no stinkin' Sherpa routes......

Goren Kropp did NOT use the convenient route created by the Sherpa through the icefall.
raymond phule

climber
May 6, 2013 - 03:16am PT

The case of the three elite climbers is a little different as they evidently did pay the guiding companies their share to use the Khumbu icefall route. Implicit in this agreement is the understanding that no one interferes with the Sherpas when they are fixing ropes higher up.

You might be right but after reading a couple of books about Everest 96 I got the impression that the fixing of the ice fall (that is done by one team every year) and the fixed ropes higher on the mountain is two different things. The rigging in the ice fall is for the convenience of everyone on the mountain and the rest is for the convenience for the expeditions that need the ropes.

There where for example climbers trying to reach the summit before any ropes where fixed above the south col that year. It wasn't even the sherpas that finally did fix the Hillary step that year.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 6, 2013 - 03:16am PT
I believe that all accounts I have read so far and definitely the accounts from the 3 western climbers that where there said that the lead sherpa was fixing above a belay and that the westerners crossed the line at the belay.

Then how could they exchange words and have physical contact with that Sherpa????????

Ya gotta get the story straight.......
raymond phule

climber
May 6, 2013 - 03:30am PT

Goren Kropp did NOT use the convenient route created by the Sherpa through the icefall.

I understand that you haven't read his book. He climbed a different line to camp one and descended on the normal route. I am also pretty sure that he used the normal route through the ice fall when he walked down from his two top attempts and maybe when he walked up also.
raymond phule

climber
May 6, 2013 - 03:33am PT

Then how could they exchange words and have physical contact with that Sherpa????????

Ya gotta get the story straight.......

Are you playing dumb? Why don't you read the accounts from the western climbers? It is explained there but the clue might be that a sherpa where leading above the belay and then rappelled down.
orangesporanges

Social climber
May 6, 2013 - 04:44am PT
OH! THAT'S WHAT THEY DID!

It's what
THEY DID

The commercial expeditions have started bullying people around
Encouraging their Sherpa teams to assert their position
Steck, Moro and Griffiths had already established their camp
They were crossing over to it

A few hours later
A mob of 70+
Many with the faces hidden behind scarves
Attacked them
orangesporanges

Social climber
May 6, 2013 - 04:47am PT
Goren Kropp did NOT use the convenient route created by the Sherpa through the icefall.

Yes. Goran did. No less than on his descent and when acclimatising for his final successful push.

Nonetheless, Goran was one-cool guy. A clearer account would have been great though
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 6, 2013 - 08:21am PT
crankster - It's a f*#king mountain. Anyone is free to climb it by whatever means. Sherpas pride hurt - bfd.

This is a bunch of bullsh#t, man. They have lived, worked, tilled the soil, built the bridges and carved the trails to its foot, and have buried their loved ones (or deposited their ashes) in its shadow for thousands of years. The water that it provides, they and their ancestors have used to bathe their bodies, cook their food, and quench their thirst day after day, year after year, century after century. And it is, and always has been, a revered, respected and an integral part of their culture. IMO, that mountain was created for, and with, their people in mind. What have we done to it over the last half century or more other than litter it with tons of trash and desecrated it with hundreds of dead bodies that have been left to rot on its flanks?

And without their continued guidance, cooperation, labor, skills and support for some 60+ years as Sherpa, guides and porters, no one would have ever gotten within 75 miles of it from the get go, let alone climbed it. Year after year they drag our sorry asses up and down it. And time and time again have risked and paid with their own lives to rescue ours when the going gets ruff, and will most likely do so again and again.

It was their toil, their blood, sweat and tears that paved the way and has made it possible for every single climber that ever has, and ever will, set foot on that mountain or gain its summit, including Ueli Steck. So how about a little damn respect!

From all that I have read, seen and heard, they are a gentle, humble and loving people who welcome one and all. Who could count all the hungry, thirsty and tired sojourners, climbers and trekkers they have not only opened their land, homes, hearts and lives too, but have shed their blood and given their lives for over the years?

Personally, I think they should have kicked some ass a long time ago. Let everyone know who's boss. We have been long overdue for an attitude adjustment! We are playing in their back yard. We are their guests. When guest come to my house and play in my back yard they do so according to my rules. I am pretty lenient, but, I expect some respect. I don't like being taken advantage of. They have been taken advantage of and looked down upon from the beginning, imo!

Therefore, in the very least, I believe an apology and a request for forgiveness is in order, not only from Ueli and his partner, but from the international climbing community in general.

edit: crankster - "I know, you've all got prayer flags..." -- This is about respect, plain and simple. my personal beliefs (i'm a Christian) are besides the point. talk about jumping to conclusions. sheesh. d00d, you've got issues...seek help!
swam

Social climber
.
May 6, 2013 - 08:50am PT
From a social climber’s point of view: I follow expeditions on the Net and recall traumatizing events like the Sharp tragedy, great none lost their lives for that fail:

Ueli/Moro’s team should of officially informed all teams and the leading sherpas that they had set their camp above the set lines. They did not go to the session framing the procedures in a dangerous zone.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 6, 2013 - 09:48am PT
So far this year, two Sherpas have died and one had to be rescued. An ice fall doctor fell into a crevasse early on and just today a Sherpa died of either a stroke or a heart attack at Camp 3. Another one was hit by falling ice on the Lhotse wall (it does happen there) and received a concussion and helicopter rescue from Camp 2.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 6, 2013 - 09:50am PT
Justification for an elitist attitude is getting slapped, kicked, then booted off the hill.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 6, 2013 - 11:53am PT
'Mountain climbing' means 'steep hiking with little oxygen'
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 6, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Goren Kropp did NOT use the convenient route created by the Sherpa through the icefall.

And Goren Kropp FAILED to climb Everest when he did so. On his subsequent success bid he DID use the route.

Not that I'm a historian but I don't believe ANY team has succeeded on the S Col route without sherpa. Period. Not one person.

Then there is Messner on the west face...

DMT
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
May 6, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Steve House has some interesting tweets on this incident and his experiences:

from https://twitter.com/stevehouse10

Steve House ‏@stevehouse10 29 Apr

In 2011, while acclimating on the normal route on Makalu we climbed solo next to fixed lines. Lead sherpa threatened us there as well.

Steve House ‏@stevehouse10 29 Apr

There is a gross misunderstanding of modern climbing by most sherpas in Nepal, likely created by Everest and Ama Dablam "guiding".

Steve House @stevehouse10 29 Apr

We explained we were going to attempt to climb new route on West Face. They replied: "If you fix a new route, we will not follow you."

Steve House ‏@stevehouse10 29 Apr

I can see that the Everest workers/sherpas could feel threatened by what they see as the 'emergence' of climbers who don't need them.


Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 6, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
the only reason sherpas are needed to fix lines on a 45-60 degree face [even at altitude] is because the average guided client is not a competent climber. with modern tools and ice screws this face is at best a novice climber's endeavour. for a lot of competent climbers, let alone elite, this is soloing terrain.



With due respect, Nah000, I must disagree. Fixed lines on the Lhotse Face were commonplace before the advent of guided Everest climbing.

Heat from the sun reflecting off the walls of Everest, Nupste and Lhotse melts the surface and refreezing at night results in a thoroughly hardened surface... difficult to arrest a fall. With a fresh snow covering, it's even more treacherous. In 1996 three members of an international expedition, with shallow anchors, were swept to their deaths in a surface layer avalanche.

Sherpas, who shuttle heavy loads to higher camps demand secure fixed lines on the Lhotse Face. Conveying hefty loads, in thin air, on hard ice...will eventuate ankle and calf muscle cramps far more consequential than anything encountered by newbies in a three day snow seminar on Rainier or the Tetons !

Very unhappy that Ueli was beat up at camp 2...the individuals who stoned him should be taken off the mountain. But elite standing does not entitle an individual to sidestep protocol established by the mountain community.

....curious why Nepal doesn't employ liason officers to prevent such events.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 6, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
Robert Anderson leader 1988 Kangschung face expedition
Robert Anderson leader 1988 Kangschung face expedition
Credit: Paul Teare
We didn't use Climbing Sherpas in 1988
But without the help of the locals nothing would of been climbed
We had one Sherpa sirdar/ cook a Mr Pasang Norbu Sherpa who
jspoke Tibetan and basically
Got us to the bc
Edit: DMT, Sorry about that but all four climbers on the 1988 Kangschung face
reached the South col without Sherpa climbing assistance
(That's the back side)
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
May 6, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
So many SSA's (Sniveling Sherpa Apologists) on this post. I know, you've all got prayer flags in your yoga rooms & outdoor kitchens, although you're not a Budhhist (too time consuming). You still have a copy of "Three Cups of Tea", even the one your mother returned to you when she found out it was a fraud. Most of you check in daily with Gwyneth Paltrow's website, goop, right?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 6, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
....curious why Nepal doesn't employ liason officers to prevent such events.


They do. The problem is that they're high caste Hindus who stay in base camp or sometimes one of the lower villages. One of the things the Sherpas have been lobbying for is to have Sherpa laison officers.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 6, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Stewart, thanks for clarification. Maybe its just the Icefall route, then. I stand corrected. Cheers!

DMT
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 6, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
Well from The Nepal side(south yak) yer
Right on DMT
Cheers

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