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John M

Apr 25, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
What i want to know is for every Californian who moves to Idaho, how many Idahoans move to California? The complainers never mention that.

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
My younger brother moved to Antioch...I'm definitely NOT complaining!

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 26, 2013 - 11:16am PT
There's quite a list of well published writers from Idaho. Hasn't anyone heard of Heather Sharfeddin, Beatrice Sparks and Mimi LaFollette Summerskill?


hmm, I wonder how that list compares to well published writers from CA...
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:34am PT
In 1842 the Sawyers (from St Joseph, Missouri) set out with others from Missouri on the Oregon Trail, as I understand it, there was some discussion about swerving south on the California Trail, but it was still a 'rough' trail, so to Oregon they went and then to Washington, settling in what is now the Olympia/Tumwater area. Where my dad was from, mom was a West Virginian.

Just think if they decided to take the California Trail. How would that have turned out?

Both my brothers and a sister were born in Seattle (I could live there - Cascades, alpine climbing, Leavenworth rock, Washington Pass, BC to the north, Olympic rain forest, Puget Sound). My other sister and I were born In Walnut Creek CA.

So if we ever win the lottery, I (and Jennie) need to live by the sea, hence northern California, Provençe, Corsica, Seattle or thereabout, maybe Oregon. Though Lake Tahoe is big enough to remind us of the sea.

Nevada is beautiful and so is Colorado, and I understand that even Boise is up and coming, but no sea in those places.


i wuz bornded in LANCASTER,, when it was A through F street period..

Jeez Ron, I drove through Antelope Valley back in 1992, after many years of not being there. It's dreadful, Lancaster and Palmdale are like, merged. HIgh desert environments are so fragile.

I was with my then Irish girlfriend Marie and my mom heading back from a cousin's wedding in Malibu (actually from my aunt's in San Bernardino).

Driving through Lancaster, my mom remarks: "Where will they find work?"

I replied: "Mom, we must have passed both a K-Mart and a Wal-Mart, and fast food joints, long commute to La La land. The question is, where will they find the water?"

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Roxy, when did your ancestors move to Boise? You part Shoshoni? You think you bought your property fair and square, doncha? Sucks that you don't have the smurts or quality facilities to attract responsible renters.

The last 3 houses I rented in Tahoe got: a new kitchen faucet, a new firewood storage shelter, a stone walkway, some drywall and painting work, the woodpecker holes patched, the shed door repaired, and under the stove cleaned for the first time in probably a decade.

They were cool. They deserved it and they appreciated it... and they were all "from" CA.

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:26am PT
I thought Burroughs was from Tarzana....

Hemingway was married in Cheyenne. Lets not leave my state, one of 'em anyway, out.

What California really needs is sandstone cracks!

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:33am PT
Twenty years ago when I first had to leave California for school, I thought I couldn't live anywhere else.

Now, especially after some recent visits, I'm happy to live almost anywhere else.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:43am PT
H, nice list, but you forgot that the Farallon Islands is one of the largest Great White breeding grounds in the world and then there is the Mojave Green.

I love my home state, and I think that sharks and snakes are amazing creatures (with the exception of the Florida pythons and anacondas), but I don't particularly like being around them.

Surfing in Monterey Bay, anytime seaweed would brush up on my leg, I'd freak. "What was that?"

Face to face, approaching Snake Dike, as Jim Keating and I were mantling (unroped) to the start when on a ledge, about a foot in front of our faces, yep, a coiled buzzworm. We just dropped down the eight or so feet to the slab.

I wonder who would win a 'fight' in the Everglades, would an anaconda take a python or vice versa. if they were of equal size. I'd pick the anaconda as it is more of a water snake.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Patrick,, i too hadnt been in SO CA for quite some time, then went down there in 1989. Did not recognize a thing, and as you say Lancaster was no longer a small cross roads in the Mohave,, but just another "burb" of never ending burbs!

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:13am PT
A lot of great white people come from the faralons Patrick? I thought it was all rocks, seagulls rocks and Tiburon blancos grandes....

Imagine how different Lancaster was when Frank Zappa went to high school there...

Apr 27, 2013 - 11:17am PT
The white sharks keep some of the surf spots in no. cal. from getting to crowded.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Patrick you're a true IrishMAN - a little GIRL around snakes hahahahahaha!

Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
One example of that is a generous and unsustainable pension system, a political hot potato, not unique to California but shared by most states.

QITNL, also a hot potato here in Ireland as the bankers that helped bring down the economy and the politicians and senior civil servants that allowed it are still receiving handsome pensions/pension contributions from the State.

And of course the property developers and other financial institutions CEOs either get a slap on the wrist or move to the US, where they live in mansions, bought by hidden money. And Ireland's biggest chancer is now a media/communications billionaire.

While 'lower' public sector and private sector workers are seeing either their pensions reduced or even stripped. It's called 'austerity'.

The mandarins rule and don't care about the common people and middle class.

The one exception is President Michael D Higgins. He's honest and his honesty is to be listened to.

I know the Irish were considered non-christian

Krab some truth to that, but it only applies to the politicians, senior civil servants, bankers, financiers and developers. With the one exception, Michael D.

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Besides, I were educated but 2 ours from Idaho... what does ya spect?

If college entrance exams are viable index for rating a state's primary and secondary education system...Idaho will rate well. In 2012 ACT test scores, Idaho was 9th among the 50 states.

That particular rating isn't equitable to Intermountain states like Wyoming and Colorado that mandate ALL seniors take the ACT...thus many non-college bound students take the test in those states while in Idaho 67% take the A.C.T.

A more evenhanded comparison might be the University of Missouri's "State Enlightenment Ratings" based on both SAT and ACT scores and factored by percentage of H.S. students taking the exams.

Utah rates 7th, Montana 8th, Colorado 15th, Idaho and Wyoming tie for 16th.

California is well down the list at 37th. but the disadvantage is somewhat undue because that state's demographic is dissimilar to the intermountain states. I have great respect for California's primary and seconday educators and their manner dealing with the state's gravity and social milieu.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
So, Paddy, I take it you've not had the singular pleasure of stepping on a nice wee stingray at a lovely California beach?

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
CA is currently being sued for not educating its ELLs (English language learners) well enough. The number of ELLs coming to the state is in decline due to the economy. Staff is being reduced due to fewer ELL sections. How many ELLs does Idaho have compared to CA? It takes six years to acquire a language.

I was at a CA district that payed for every student to take the PSAT. Results were mixed. We are a state that overtests.

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
...appreciate your post Sullly. Yes, I believe states that overtest are cut short in many "by state" comparisons.

The intermountain states have calmer waters... language wise, and that's a huge factor in their scoring well in average SAT/ACT ratings.

EDIT:California has highest percentage of English language learners in it's public schools 28.9 % ...6.0% for Idaho.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
I've no complaint with the public education my children received in California. Good teachers, good schools, decent enough peers and friends, no violence to speak of.

Ranking and comparing results are good for policy decisions I'm sure. Its also good when selecting university, private schools and even when seeking a new place to live.

Know what? The town I live in, do you know what the very first criteria we used when selecting it?

Yep. The school system. Then proximity to an airport (so I could get the f*#k outta here!).

We were and are involved with our kids' educations. Working from home when not traveling afforded me a participatory role some dads never achieve. I could go to my kids little school plays and walk them to and from elementary school when they were little (6 blocks down the street). I was there for their graduation ceremonies and teacher parent conferences. Their school administrators knew me and I knew them. We were involved.

My kids made excellent grades and I hope they have a decent foundation now to move on in the wider world.

Truth - there is not another state in these United States where I would rather raise my children, that I would rather call home.

That is no indictment on those other states. Its merely a statement of love on my part - California is one of the Great Loves of my life. Some of you may call her a slut or tell me she's a filthy whore or a dominatrix without mercy... and you'd be right. I might get mad though and return you a knuckle sammich for dissing her though.

And maybe she IS a slut but she's my slut and this I know - when it comes to beauty, in all its forms? She is the best looking State, by far. Don't get me wrong there are other beauties too. But California is the Beauty among beauties.

I'll be quiet now.


Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 27, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
A good school drives up the neighborhood real estate prices, so it's not only those of you with kids who have an intrest in which schools are performing, and which schools are having trouble just going through the motions.

Test scores are important. So is the percentage of students receiving school supplied breakfast and lunch ( "free" lunch ).

At at least one of the elementary schools I attended in Fontana, the rate of "free" lunch participation is 100%!

My Dad still lives in that neighborhood, and it's not a poor looking place at all. People there seem to be doing pretty good, as evidenced by the number of RVs and boats in driveways, the big, gas-guzzlers needed to tow them, newer vehicles of all kinds, with fancy features added on at extra get the picture.

Yet not one family can afford a bowl of corn flakes and a baloney sandwich?

Of course they can afford to feed their kids. What's going on there is the school is gaming the system to the absurd. In my book, that is not a mark in the school's favor.

Oh, and their test scores are in the toilet, too.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
People without the land under their home shouldn't be allowed to vote. Renters don't take care of anything.

Krab, I can't believe you wrote that, tongue in cheek, right? I hope. Democracy. A lot of countries/regions in the past, and still, say that only landowners have the vote. Ireland was one, the US South where many tenants would never have gotten the vote, Britain at one time.

You are either joking or must have flunked civil government/studies in school.

And that is a sweeping statement of renters. Do you always tarnish a certain group with a broad brush?

Jennie and I have been in this house for well over five years. I had a new immersion heater put in, had the electrical board updated to switches from the old 'plugs', had a carpenter put in proper shelves in the kitchen closet, transformed the backyard (about the size of a very large tennis court) from brambles and weeds to one with a garden, a fence between two neighbors, a top-notch shed (with windows, shelving, workbench, electricity, desk) that I use as a second office, another good shed for storage, a top-notch €6,000 greenhouse, with plumbing, electricity, veggie beds and staging shelves), raised veggie beds, flower beds, veggie beds, a rockery, a better lawn (mowing is a pain as the front and side yards are also about the size of a tennis court together). Oh yes, the water tank cleaned out and water hose taps in the backyard (there were never any, we live in a 1930s bungalow).

In order for Jennie to be discharged into home care (me) August 2010, I put railings up both sides of the front steps, the (double) door back steps and side yard kitchen door steps for her safety as she couldn't walk very well at the time.

Altogether about €40,000 out of my pocket, dummy me.

And our landlord appreciates all those thing. He has reimbursed me for the heater and electrics (but not plumbing, which he should), but I footed the bill for the yard work and electric gates (had to for Jennie's safety, so she wouldn't wander up the close, actually it is called walking nowadays - used be called absconding - but dementia experts now call it walking, I guess it is a bit more PC), as I did those things on my own volition.

In hindsight I wish I had never transformed the backyard from brambles to a garden. Really stupid for a tenant to do. But I needed to make it safe, secure and comfortable.

So Krab, think before you tarnish people.

NB I have never trashed any place I have lived in in five countries.
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