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donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 23, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
California has a GDP between that of Italy and Brazil, or the eighth largest in the World. It's population is about the same as Argentina's and it is about the same size as Sweden.
Perhaps that is why California climbers don't seem to travel much.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
eighth largest in the World

used to be 7th
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
The East is rising.

edit: It snowed here in Ouray three inches today and a foot a few days ago.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
I don't know...any California thread seems deficient without Rox' pontifications :-)
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
Really, I want to travel North and South America, Europe, and Central Asia looks fascinating, but I keep finding cool things to do in California. It seems endless. I believe in knowing your backyard, and the backyard is f*#king incredible.

California IS the Golden State.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
I've been around to a few places...
...and I travel a bit... even now...

but it is easy to stay in California and just climb, not far to Yosemite Valley... it's only one place but it is an amazing place...

limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
I guess I could leave if I wanted to go to the mountains. Oh, wait...
the beach? oh, wait...
the desert? oh, wait...
Forests? oh, wait...
a city? oh, wait...
somewhere with nice weather? oh, wait...
go fishing?
kayaking?
snowboarding?
climbing?
surfing?
a lake?
basically anything?
Oh, wait...

The jungle! Next time I get an itch for the jungle I'm out of here!
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
Born in Germany, raised in Canada and Europe. Moved to California after seven dreary years in Oregon in 2000 (ok, minus 2 in Thailand and 1 1/2 in China). I've never looked back.


Aside from being in the USA, California is, overall, on-balance, all things considered, etc the best place to live. Not by far... one could be quite happy in, say, Switzerland or France. If I were a rad dude I'd like Colorado more, but I'm done with being cold.

In California you can be in snow or warm sun on the same day. If it's too hot hit the mountains, or too cold hit So Cal.

There are very few places where this is possible. Why leave?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:33pm PT

The jungle! Next time I get an itch for the jungle I'm out of here!

LOL! We took my gf's son's gf to Tuolumne. She's from Indonesia. She'd never been outside of a city in California. On the drive up she asked us about the monkeys. We had to tell her there are no monkeys in California. It's the one thing we don't have.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
good climbing in Minnesota. Donini can crash at my pad anytime.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
California
Phallicornia
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
I climbed in Taylor's Falls in the 60's and saw Robert Zimmerman (aka Bob Dylan) perform in a small bar in the Seven Corners. My first wife was from Wayzata....now what was her name?
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Apr 23, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
I was mulling this exact topic over in my head this morning while I was feeding critters. It was 9 out. That's fahrenheit. I'm sick of it.

Even went through the checklist. Got to rainforest, uhh, oh yeah, California has the coastal Redwoods which are a type of rain forest. Just no tropical rainforest. Somehow, I'm OK with that.

Part of this mindf*#k I gave myself was thinking of smart replies to the Wyomingits who when they find out I'm from California have to make really rude and negative comments.

I was wondering where Cali stood in GDP, thanks donini!
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:01am PT
you've only scratched the surface. Palisade Head is where it's at. We even have Egger-esque ice climbs, for real.
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Sucks., except for Yosemite, the Eastside, and Jtree. I will be outta here soon
jstan

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:03am PT
Born in upstate New York. Didn't take off our galoshes till spring.

Have not had to use them once here in JT. Oh well. No place is perfect.

Thanks Kennyt. Hadn't seen that video before. Very creative.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:16am PT
Lots of life changes in the past five years and I've thought much about relocating. But all in all having a home base in rural north San Diego County is pretty awesome so here I will stay.

However, traveling the globe is essential for me. Meeting people, embracing different cultures, exploring the land...this is what makes me happy. So my base will be So Cal and then I'll figure out how to span the globe.

"And I say to myself, what a wonderful world." Ray Charles, I believe.

Joyfully, lynnie

Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:31am PT
Lynne -

Louie Armstrong
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:33am PT
The only state that I have done this in a day.

1. Climbed a multi pitch of rock
2. Surfed great waves
3. Rode my Bike
4. Cross country skied (back country with teliturns
5. Night Sking (Alpine
6. Spent my day from sea level to 10,000 + feet
7. Made love

Only in California

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:34am PT
It costs a lot to live in California, especially near the beach - that's another reason California climbers might not get around, as you point out, Jim - it costs to travel, and the state line is about 80 bucks to 350 bucks away. Unless I go to Mexico. The other reason of course is there is so much good climbing in California, through all seasons, that there's really no need to go anywhere else.

I could climb every day on a different cliff, dome, mountain or boulder patch for the rest of my life in California and not see it all, I reckon.

It's about time you moved back, old friend.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:38am PT
picture if you will, the 38 million remaining california holdouts throwing in the towel,
and lighting out for the territory the rest of us consider comfortably disperse ...
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:44am PT
Rick, my other old friend,

San Diego County has some really wild country in which to disperse yerself - I think you'd be surprised.

Just a guess, but probably 80 % of Californians live within 50 miles of the coast or in the Central Valley. That leaves a lot of ground.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:44am PT
California is OK, I just miss Polish weather ;)
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Thanks, Bolte, yo are correcto!

Love to groove with both those blues wizards. lynnie


Edit and LOL: But what do i know. Maybe not blues, maybe......????

Miles of smiles.....but, hey, isn't there a jazz man whose name is Miles? Are we cooking on the percussion yet?
enjoimx

Trad climber
Yosemite, ca
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Lived here for 29 years! Love it.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:14am PT
hedge nailed it. all we gots is grainite.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:26am PT


Good choice, Lynnie

Susan
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:55am PT
Um,

Clark Mtn is in California, boyz, y'know Jumbo Love and all that.

By California standards a bit scrappy, but it IS limestone.

Oh, and Joe, we got a real classy sport crag hiding down here in SD, steep too. Hardly anybody's been there, but some well traveled climbers consider it world class.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:51am PT
I am born and bred Californian who is heading to Azerbaijan on Monday.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:42am PT
eighth largest in the World

used to be 7th

Looks like 12th now...must be slipping.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California

Curt
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:45am PT
used to be fourth in GDP, then fifth, then...

Used to probably have the best education system in the world, certainly in the 1960s and 1970s was number one in the States, now I believe it is 50th.

I was born and raised in California.

Area wise, Cali is larger than Japan or New Zealand.

Dad was from Olympia, WA, mom was a 'Mountaineer' from West Virginia, the state motto is Montani Semper Liberi", ("Mountaineers Are Always Free).

They say that if you could flatten out West Virginia, it'd be larger than Texas.

But, not many places have deserts, temperate rain forests, Redwoods, Sequoias, Bristlecone Pines, Joshua Trees, San Francisco (Jennie loves The City), Mediterranean climate, mountains, did I mention Yosemite?

Back when my late brother Mac was at UC Davis, first studying medicine, then viticulture and enology, I went to an 'open campus' day. One professor told me that, apparently, in the 1950s-1960s, California was responsible for one-tenth of the world's agriculture. I couldn't believe that and still don't, but that is including forestry, fisheries and the like.

Now it specializes in cement, asphalt and housing estates.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:01am PT
A generic greeting, a la Locker condole or CC birthday wish:

"Welcome to California, pard.

Pick up after yourself and we'll get along fine."

Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:11am PT
1,999,797...

would it be wrong of me to post 203 things separately of things I've done in CA that make me love the place?
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:15am PT
wow, that one post cost me 3 replies...somethings fishy...
Loomis

climber
Svět
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:42am PT


I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president...

Carter Power will soon go away
I will be Fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school!

[Chorus:]
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!

[Chorus]

Now it is 1984
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece

Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes here's a pretty flower.

DIE on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will croak, you little clown
When you mess with President Brown
When you mess with President Brown

[Chorus]
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:46am PT

prophet on the burning shore.

kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:58am PT
myself it has a little less to do with the GDP, but eh, i'm young.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:08am PT
No limestone though,

You need to get out into the desert more.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Sucks., except for Yosemite, the Eastside, and Jtree. I will be outta here soon

A common sentiment, I think that about 33% of all folks I talk with share your view and they usuly don't even know where the valley or Josh or the eastside is.

I always tell em.... "Ill come over and help you move, if you promise never to return"


I have lived in the Midwest and Europe and all I can say is California is MY home sweet home.


Oh to answer the OP... Jim, I think you are correct. We don't travel far for climbing. We don't need to.

Why go get hassled by UTAH, TEXAS, etc, LEOS who
hate you cause of whats on your license plate?
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Don't miss it at all.

Miss central Pennsylvania bouldering much, much more.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:51am PT
The Chinitas are much more beautiful. ;)
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:57am PT
There really isn't enough Munge climbing.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:57am PT
One place, many perspectives. As Anaïs Nin said, "We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are."

I've loved living here for the last 20 odd years and would likely not have become a climber if I'd lived elsewhere. But I've always loved and appreciated wherever I've been (and I've moved a lot). Lot's of other great places in the world to experience.

Eric
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
600-700 million Chinitas here.

And a good lot of them seem to think us Westerners with our dabizi (big noses) are very attractive. I know you're married Dingus, so it doesn't matter to you...
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
I would like to repeat that the sandstone bouldering I did in Central Pennsylvania is some of the best bouldering I've ever done (and I've done Midnight Lightning).

Still lots of untouched rock there.
jopay

climber
so.il
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
I have always had a theory when it comes to California, growing up here in the Midwest it seemed every cool thing emulated from California, hot rods, custom cars, drag strips, beach parties, music you name it. California was just the center of the universe for a Midwest youth. The mindset was just different, always new ideas or way of thinking, and so my theory is those hardy souls who were brave and adventurous enough to leave the relative safety of the East and venture forth across the new frontier to California were a different breed to start with and so that's the DNA that made up the California mystique.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
California has so many strong positives and also huge negatives. Both lists are too long to detail. Having been raised these and having left and returned a couple times, I do not see myself going back ( to live). Have lived in the North and South. Personally, I have been there done that. I figured I have wasted enough of my life sitting on either the 405 or 580. Better places exist ...just sayin.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Why is it so many Colorado climbers dislike/hate/slag/u-name-it on California? It's just such an obvious rehash oh their geographical inferiority shizzle, they've been hurling since I began climbing
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
Mainly because I can't see the beautiful San gabriel Mountains through the air pollution from only a couple miles away when in Pasadena. Hey.... California can be awesome, it just has some big negatives in my opinion. California has some pretty amazing natural ressources. However to make it out as the perfect state devoid of any problems is common among many that have relocated from the Midwest lol Wait, you guys have celebrities in Hollywood. I am so moving back.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Why is it so many Colorado climbers dislike/hate/slag/u-name-it on California? It's just such an obvious rehash oh their geographical inferiority shizzle, they've been hurling since I began climbing

I live part-time in California and part-time in Colorado. When the weather is good, you can't beat Boulder for rock climbing. OK. If you are addicted to Yosemite cracks it's a bit of a stretch, but for accessibility and variety of climbing, it is all right there in Boulder. And you don't have to slide into a clammy sleeping bag after a day of hard cragging.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
I think any reluctance to travel has more to do with geography-- my nearest out of state "destination" area is about a 7 hour drive. The inter-mountain areas are more like 20+ hours. Weekend or three day road trips are not really feasible with those drive times.



ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
When I was a teenager (in Colorado), I was the skinny, sensitive kid that never got the girl. I dreamed of moving to California where guys like me were appreciated (I thought all those Cali girls loved Neil Young and Jackson Browne). Well, it took me 41 yrs from then to move here (4 1/2 yrs ago), but by golly, I found my California girl that appreciates my kind of guy. Whoopee!

Jayna in Joshua
Jayna in Joshua
Credit: ydpl8s
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
Ok,, California is a great place to visit...


But WHY are so many escaping there for AZ, NV and CO???
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
^^^^ There's a lot of masochists in the world.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
The guys running the boundarys between CA/NV were on crack im fairly sure.. Tahoe should be all CA, and Alpine to inyo should be NV.. We will throw in Clark county as well! Wanna trade?
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
^^^^ Dude where do you think all those Venice Beach types come from?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
Seems a fair trade for all of the gangs we have FROM CA here now. I think CA came out ahead on that deal actually.


edit: Topo,, FUNNY! Stone away!

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
So the next time you blabber about Californians coming to Nevada? STFU m'kay?

Deserves to be repeated.

That story has been all over various NPR/PRI shows. Sadly, not surprising coming from the shitheels next door in Nuh Vad Ur.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
I imagine the KOOKS simply prefer to return to thier natural habitat.. BWAH!;-)



(Posts in honor of Rox!)
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
I am moving from the Bay Area to Nevada next year. (yeah, some mental cases are beeing sent to Nevada too!)

Why? Because it is cheap. No state taxes. No traffic. No stress. The 'hood is nicknamed "Little California" 'coz 70-80% people are retirees from California.

You can buy a 15 years old house, 1,500 sf, in a quiet, safe neighborhood for $160,000. 20 min to Woodfords, 30 min to Lake Tahoe. Minden, NV is the new rad! lol

I really love the Bay Area, but it is too expensive for a retiree.
Dapper Dan

Trad climber
Menlo Park
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Moose I could copy your post nearly word for word .

My soon-to-be and I are both teachers , we rent in Menlo Park south of SF . It is impossible and quite discouraging, the idea of buying a home around here.

Every time we go skiing we make our way to Minden / Gardnerville , and I think how easy it would be to get a house there , and be close to the Sierra, hot tubs , climbing , skiing .

The only thing is we would take a huge pay cut in teacher salaries .

I love the Bay and CA , but Nevada is calling me.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
After having lived in the sweaty undersac of the US (El Paso), I nearly kissed the ground in Blythe, I was so damn happy to be home. And you CAN find cheap homes here, just not in the Bay.

I'm such a nut, I gots me a California tattoo as well. No pot leaf though.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
Oh, and there ARE monkeys in Chinese Camp.
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
why I dislike California:
overcrowded
too much traffic
pollution
crime
too many fakes, cheaters, and liars

I've lived here all my life, and seen the state go from #1 to the bottom of the barrel

ps. I could go on
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
as stated,, who ever ran the boundarys were on crack..But feel FREE to take Clark county as payment foe the waters..That way CA will have everything,, legal whores taboot!
John M

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
I use to have a general feeling of hating Texas, but most of my family still lives in Texas and there are things I like about the state. Then I decided I didn't want to hate anymore. Sometimes I still get upset, but I don't hate anymore. And now that I have given up hating I see more good things. I still see the negatives, but they don't affect me as deeply. It feels good to give up hating. Some of you should try it. Nevada has issues, so does California and Colorado. But they also have all sorts of cool things about them.

Have you ever run into a crusty old desert rat? Someone who stubbornly lives in a place that barely sustains life. There is something to be admired in that. Though I do fully understand that it can foster a recalcitrant state that refuses to learn anything new.

I don't know what the numbers are now, but at one time California mostly grew because of an influx of people from other places. Think about that. What is a Californian? Its someone who either didn't like where they lived, or they saw something better somewhere else. Did this foster a feeling of superiority among some? I'm sure it did. But a Califrnian is just someone from another place. So maybe look in the mirror.

As for those gangs Ron complains about. They weren't created by California. When you know of a way to get rid of them, then let us know. Other then just going out and shooting them on sight. They are a sore spot for anyone who has to deal with them. But they are not uniquely Californian, so blaming California is pretty lame.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to be judged by who you were rather then where you lived or who lived near you?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
Especially maddening are those dirt piles we call islands, just off the coast - Catalina, the Channels etc

Now compare those to Sard, Corsica, Mallorca, Kalymnos
I grew up in Orange County and, as a teenager, used to dream that the cliffs lining Laguna were solid so I could have Gogarth-like adventures in my backyard. I still dream of climbing there, but there's no much awesome granite here. Sometimes I look back on periods of my life and wonder why I didn't go climbing in Peru, Alaska, etc., and then I remember that I wanted to go climbing in the Sierra or bag El Cap again.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
JohnM,, my part here is purely tongue in cheek,as elluded to by the Rox mention. CA has some GORGEOUS country. But in these times, they are crowded. I mean,, wilderness permits were "sold out" six months in advance this coming season..

You come to a nevadur wilderness area some time. No papers no permit needed, and its actually WILDERNESS.. That is what keeps me here above all else, is the fact we are just about the last great open expanse of untamed land in this country. Ive driven on back roads for six hours and not seen another being. And theres thousands of VIRGIN summits yet disturbed. Its hard to get that anywhere else.
John M

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
Thats great Ron.. lucky you for having all that aloneness. I love aloneness. I just get tired of the tongue in cheek bashing. If you have ever traveled someplace and were immediately hated for what was on the license plate of your vehicle, then you might understand. If people gave me a chance, then I could usually overcome the hatred, but it gets tiresome.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:53pm PT

Mebbe I shud move to CA????
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
"Mebbe I shud move to CA????"

Stay away! I was here first!

;-)
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
wilderness permits were "sold out" six months in advance this coming season..

That is totally incorrect, but do continue.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
whats incorrect Gary, my buddies were gonna head out of Tuolumne this year,, but couldnt- they were out 5.5 months proir.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
Northern NV would completely suck for climbers without CA. That's just a fact. There is not a single noteworthy crag up here otherwise. Not one.

Californians mostly don't think one way or the other about NV, whereas some Nevadans carry some petty ass chip on their shoulder. Haters be hatin', I guess.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Go almost anywhere in the world and tell someone you are from California
and they will either start drooling with envy and/or understand. Tell
them you are from Colorado and they'll say, "Where is that?"
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
them you are from Colorado and they'll say, "Where is that?"

Reilly, that's exactly the kind of place I want to live
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
gotta call BS jeebs... Wild Granites every bit the Taquitz. And been to the Rubies??
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Where?! Never heard of it. If it was good we'd all know about it, so I don't buy it. Plus, Tahquitz is in Southern California. Sorry.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
youve never heard of the "wild granites" aka Toiyabe dome??? No chyt?


you never drove down big smokey to Carvers,, and looked to the right and went HOLY phuck look at that!??>?



heres just one 600/700' chunk...
John M

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
whats incorrect Gary,

Yes.. advance reservations for most trails out of the meadows book up fast. Often by people from out of state. First come first served permits are still available. I always get mine that way. It doesn't work very well with a large group, but a couple of people shouldn't have any trouble getting one. You just have to get in line early the day before. Then you can overnight in the backpackers camp before your trip.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermits.htm

4. If you're unable to get a reservation, consider a first-come, first-served permit.
Wilderness permits are available during business hours at any permit issuing station starting no earlier than 11 am the day before the beginning of your wilderness trip. Priority for permits for a particular trailhead is given to the closest permit issuing station, though it is possible to obtain a permit for any trailhead at any permit issuing station. This mainly affects the most popular trailheads that fill up quickly each morning, such as Little Yosemite Valley trailheads, Lyell Canyon, Cathedral Lakes, among others.

Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
.the west is the besT
get here, and we'll do the wrest
Credit: Norwegian
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Don't understand the hate dumped on California... I love it! My mother was born here, my kids were born here... I don't believe I would, could ever leave this state for good. It's unique natural history makes it a magical place. From Big Sur to the Sierra crest California is nothing less than spectacular.
This state's only problem is that too many want to be here and how can you blame them?

It's hard not to just get sick of all the political biases that so easily distort our perceptions. The great majority of folks in Nevada are good people and the same is true in California. The line that separates the two states is ultimately as arbitrary and permanent as a line drawn in the wet sand at the beach.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
youve never heard of the "wild granites" aka Toiyabe dome??? No chyt?


you never drove down big smokey to Carvers,, and looked to the right and went HOLY phuck look at that!??>?


Nope. I guess me and the 99% of other active Nevadan climbers who go to California instead are just hopeless.

Why doesn't anybody mention these areas.... ever?! Why do they consistently drive through the state, bypassing them for UT, ID, AZ, and elsewhere? Some conspiracy?

And to counter, you've never gone to Needles, Tuolumne, the entire High Sierras, Yosemite, Calaveras, Joshua Tree, Tahquitz, et al. and gone HOLY phuck, look at that?
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
So cool this thread had devolved to become a battle of my state is the best. Wherever you live is cool as long as you like it right ?

Personally, I was priced out of California. Buy a house that I can't afford or drive 2 hours to work? The real challenge for ME was that the areas of California in which I would want to live were either too costly or the places that I could afford to live were either crime ridden or were sterile suburbs hours aways from employment or even worse were located in the CENTRAL VALLY UGGH. Sorry CV folks, it was too easy. Also, I do not hate you but Stockton is the armpit of America lol

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/13/5051005_a5051052/on-the-move.html
Seems texas is the big winner in the California resident sweepstakes.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
Thats only a tiny taste of what IS out there jeebs. But no guides, no phone no credit cards, not a single luxury. The wild granites IS every bit the Taquitz class. Gorgeous granite and even grade 1V +...
sullly

Trad climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
Looking to leave the B. Area for Oregon within the next decade. In my nearly half century here, it's become too crowded and too tech-focused. Have located an ideal Oregon artsy university town. Leaving CA doesn't happen in my family. We've been in CA since before the Gold Rush. One relative married a Donner Party survivor. Another was Steinbeck's first wife.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Wherever you live is cool as long as you like it right ?

I actually live in NV, I'm just not self-deluded ;).

Thats only a tiny taste of what IS out there jeebs. But no guides, no phone no credit cards, not a single luxury. The wild granites IS every bit the Taquitz class. Gorgeous granite and even grade 1V +...

I guess I like my classic climbs on a plate, I simply don't have time for endless bushwhacking and surveying choss. Sue me. I also just don't buy that the climbing stacks up. Climbers love desolate places and awesome climbing, the word would be out. It isn't, not even amongst Nevada climbers.

What areas are within two hours to decent climbing of Reno inside Nevada?

In California that would be Donner, Big Chief, River Rock, Woodfords, Eagle Lake Cliff, Bowman Lake, Rainbow, Indian Spring, Lovers Leap, Phantom Spires, Sugarloaf, etc..

C'mon, be realistic.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
I have decided that when I win the lottery, I am moving to Incline Village NV. That way I can pretty much be in California but keep Moonbeam out of my bank account! Muuaahhahahah
#future1%er
QITNL

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson

Granites still a few miles away. Home means the hills..

and Jeebs i didnt say this wasnt a very advantageous area to live in and i did say CA has GORGEOUS country as well.. It was YOU whom made the blanket statement that was simply incorrect..I imagine the number of climbers to know of this place is in the thousands easily..
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
and Jeebs i didnt say this wasnt a very advantageous area to live in and i did say CA has GORGEOUS country as well.. It was YOU whom made the blanket statement that was simply incorrect..


Where within two hours of where I live in Northern Nevada are these areas? All the ones I mentioned, you are climbing within 2 hours. Are the ones you mentioned similarly situated? Realistically, I'm betting there are orders of magnitude more quality climbing meeting my criteria in Californiabad.

I'm not moving out to bumfuk Nevadastan so I can be local to some climbing nobody knows about and nobody will climb with me. Sorry ;). I guess the misunderstanding comes in me meaning the Carson/Reno area, not places that are closer to UT than CA.

I have decided that when I win the lottery, I am moving to Incline Village NV.


That's actually my favorite part of this state. Red Rock has grown a lot on me too.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
actually jeebs the granites are purt near dead center, 3.5 hours away from me. Rick is putting up a new 2 pitch granite crag out by fernley that is quality stone too.. Then there is "Taqshietz" rock yet to be finished project- 600 feet plus..Those are all about 2 hours or so.


edit: i wuz bornded in LANCASTER,, when it was A through F street period..
Then to Saugus junctn until half way through first grade. Been nevada since, its near all i remember.
DaveyTree

Trad climber
Fresno
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Yah, I hate California. No fricken jungle anywhere.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
I love it here in Ouray.....close to the Utah desert and the Black Canyon and within srtiking distance of the entire West.
I also love to travel and plan to spend most of the winter at our place in Patagonia.

I'm not moving anywhere.....but, if i was limited to live and travel in only one State it would be California hands down. No other State, actually very few Countries, have the diversity (climate, topography, urban setting, people etc) found in California.

I do love to take the piss out of the place.....especially on ST.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
Seven hours of commuting wasn't what I was talking about. 40 minutes and I'm on for sure, bona fide climbing at Donner. Tough sell for some remote choss ;).

edit: i wuz bornded in LANCASTER,, when it was A through F street period..
Then to Saugus junctn until half way through first grade. Been nevada since, its near all i remember.

I was bornded in Reno, NV. Parents were right moving outta here when I was little guy, tired of the boneheads of this State. But I make the best of it living here now since California is just a few miles away ;).
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
I worked on the highways (NDOT) for nearly 9 years. Many Californian drivers tend to drive batshyt crazy,, im sorry but its true.



edit: Choss lol GUD one jeebs.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
edit: Choss lol GUD one jeebs.


I'll have to conduct a survey and see if anybody even knows about your unsubstantiated choss. When I drive East of here, it mostly looks like a camel's butthole. Drive West, young man!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
Jeebs,,waddya think i wuz doin back in the early 70s /80/90s??;-)

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
When you really think about it, California has some of the most gorgeous and inspiring locations on earth. It also has some really nasty areas.

Donini, in your one state existence, you will be forced to live in either Bakersfield or Stockton.

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
Jeebs,,waddya think i wuz doin back in the early 70s /80/90s??;-)

Weed?

Do I win a prize?!

Donini, in your one state existence, you will be forced to live in either Bakersfield or Stockton.

That's grim!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
Baahaha..

Caught my biggest bass in Ca, my biggest Brookie in Ca, my biggest brown in Ca, shot my biggest turkey in Ca, - yeah i guess i DO like CA a bit..;-)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
How about:
Calexico
Brawley
Blythe
Needles
Barstow
Twentynine Palms
Mojave
San Bernadino
Visalia
Madera
Merced
Ridgecrest
Modesto
Stockton
Yuba City
Red Bluff
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Yer right on the border of Deseret, Ron!

In all reality, if I could stay within NV borders for climbing, I would. I'm sure there's classic chyt up in Nevada's guts, but those places are pretty remote for us city boys coming out there with our balls all shiny.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
DMT....Bitd just after i got out of the service a bunch of us got a house together in a rough area near Camden, N.J. We would purposely walk on the wrong side of the tracks just to stir up some fun......not so difficult to do.
Some of those guys were hard asses. One was a Medal of Honor recipient who made money selling dried ears to dudes in VFW's. I wonder if he's still alive?
Sssh....those days are long gone, thank God!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
Jeebs there IS only 1 eastside situation in this country. In that way we are unique here. Like the sierra wave formation that follows the crest. Only drop like that in the lower 48.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
I would have been living near Califon, (the portent) NJ, at that very time, Donini. It was actually a little paradise - 7 acres in the verdant country side about 30 miles from the Delaware River, where the Appalachians just brush through the state. There were granite boulders across the dirt lane from our house though I didn't quite know exactly what to do with them.

Before we left for Tennessee I'd done my first duffersitz off the chimney of my dad's barn using a marine polypro rope (OUCH!)

I didn't even KNOW there were tracks to cross, till I moved to the South!

DMT
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Why travel if you live in paradise?

Even though I like to travel to check out different ranges/scenery. Started hiking/mountaineering in beginning of 2010 and than climbing in the end of 2010. So far been in Sierra (did about 80+ peaks here), Hyalite Montana (2x), Alaska range (on top of Denali unguided 2011), Indian Creek, Bugaboos (Canada), North Cascades, Hood, did Rainier x2 (ingraham glacier direct in mid 2010 and liberty ridge in 2011). All unguided.

And going to Peru this summer for 7 weeks! Can't wait.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
Now be careful dissing the Central Valley. For the most part, we're still part of the American West. In contrast, the Bay Area and Southland (and, largely, Sacramento) really belong east of the Mississippi in attitude.

Besides, here in Fresno County, we have great and easily accessible rock climbing at Courtright and Tollhouse, more adventurous rock climbing at Kings Canyon and Tehipite Valley and excellent mountaineering on the western halves of the Palisades, Mt. Humphreys, and other great peaks, not to mention all of Mt. Clarence King, Charlotte Dome, Darwin Canyon, the Mono Recesses and more.

You may not like living in the flats, but you can't beat our mountains.

John

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
LOOK AT THAT ANGLE!
Manure Pile Beaut.
Manure Pile Beaut.
Credit: mouse from merced
Nobody else has one of these piles of manure.

Rhymes with "lure."

It's a "magnetic cliff," one which attracts climbing history fans, n00bs by the score on certain days, and women are easily impressed watching from the ground.

And there are lots of high-quality easier-grade routes to do. What more do you need?

And folks come from all over to be there, on earth, as they do to be heaven.

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Meh

California may be amazing and it is going to the dawgs like ya say, but you all don't have anything like hunting nude women with paintball guns for money like Nevada does.


"Bizarre Game Targets Women: Hunting for Bambi

(July 10) -- It's a new form of adult entertainment, and men are paying thousands of dollars to shoot naked women with paint ball guns. They're coming to Las Vegas to do it. This bizarre new sport has captured the attention of people around the world, but Channel 8 Eyewitness News reporter LuAnne Sorrell is the only person who has interviewed the game's founder.

George Evanthes has never been hunting. "Originally I'm from New York. What am I going to hunt? Squirrels? Someone's cats? Someone's dogs? I don't think so," said Evanthes. Now that he's living in Las Vegas, he's finally getting his chance to put on his camouflage, grab a rifle and pull the trigger. But what's in his scope may surprise you. He's not hunting ducks or deer, he's hunting naked women.

"I've done this three times," says Nicole, one of the three women allowing themselves to be shot at. Two other women, Gidget and Skyler, claim they have done this seven times.

Hunting for Bambi is the brainchild of Michael Burdick. Men pay anywhere from $5000 to $10,000 for the chance to come to the middle of the desert to shoot what they call "Bambis" with a paint ball gun. Burdick says men have come from as far away as Germany. The men get a video tape of their hunt to take home and show their friends.

Burdick says safety is a concern, but the women are not allowed to wear protective gear -- only tennis shoes.

Burdick says hunters are told not to shoot any woman above the chest, but he admits not all hunters follow the rules. "The main goal is to be as true to nature as possible. I don't go deer hunting and see a deer with a football helmet on so I don't want to see one on my girl either," said Burdick."

http://www.huntingforbambi.com/

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
At Woodson I heard someone ask a famous climbing photographer how many countries he had traveled to climbing, his answer was basically, why leave California. Ironically the photographer was born in Morocco.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Which state would you say has the best distribution of different types of rock?

Utah?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
Yeah, we're all Utah experts now.

I've spent a lifetime tryin' to stay outa that state. :0)

And every other one, too.

Call me an idiot but I'm here and you're not.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
donini forgot El Centro.

There's a lot of beauty in Nevada, the Ruby Mountains for instance, but it is all of the same type. California has variety that can't be beat.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
If I won the lotto, I'd buy Lone Pine.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Southland (and, largely, Sacramento) really belong east of the Mississippi in attitude.

Um, no. Having spent my first 27 years living east of the Big Muddy, the attitude in CA, whether southern, northern, coast or inland is vastly different than the east. It's THE biggest reason (along with the climbing and weather)I settled here after having lived in GA, FL, LA, MD/DC, IL, UT, OR, and AK.

I never quite understood the whole Bay Area vs. SoCal thing. You never hear people down here talking about it, only the northerners. Inferiority complex, or just sour attitude from the shitty weather? Some of both I reckon.

In any case, rest assured northerners that the Oregonians feel the same about ya'll as you do about SoCal.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
but you all don't have anything like hunting nude women with paintball guns for money like Nevada does.

But were close enough to scoot over for some of that.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
Ahh california; it's a beaut of a state to visit (not counting the rat race population centers), but soon nobody will be able to afford to live their as desperation for tax revenue increases. Maybe the last permanent residents can turn out the lights and the whole place can then be turned into a national park.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
In the distant future, California will be a country, perhaps a super power.

Governments don't last forever.


In many ways Californians control the world.

It's a place were people from all over the world, the rich and powerful, come to avoid the lack of security back home. From here they enjoy American freedom to prosper.

The angry militants in far corners of the world would trade it all for a secure middle class home here in Burbank if they only could.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
The angry militants have already moved there Spider.It's just with the high level of public assistance they have yet to sh#t in their own new nest.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
Sh#t I thought he was talkin about you Rick how's Palin doin?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
On her way to Cali for protection. She's tired of those damn russians outside her window.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
It does appear some Californians are fleeing paradise.

Various reports that track population movements indicate that “the California paradise” has been losing population to surrounding states for a number of years.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_71.htm

But then, as we have described, the appeal of California withered. Since 1990, domestic migration to California has flipped to a deficit. In the last two decades, the state lost nearly 3.4 million residents through migration to other states. In other words, it lost about four-fifths of what it had gained through domestic migration in the previous 30 years. Foreign immigration filled the gap only partially. Inflows from overseas peaked at 291,191 in 2002 and sank to just 164,445 in 2011. Meanwhile, net domestic out-migration has averaged 225,000 a year over the past ten years.


Idaho has gained 54,000 Californians as residents since 2000 and is #7 in western states gaining population from people fleeing the paradise of California. Texas has had the largest gain with 225,000 Cali residents moving there, with Arizona and Nevada not far behind.

Why are all those folks fleeing paradise?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Fritz, They always come back.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
California is awesome! There is an amazing amount of natural wonders and spectacular places to visit without ever leaving the state.

Yosemite alone has the highest waterfall in North America and three of the world’s 10 tallest waterfalls (Upper Yosemite Fall, Ribbon Fall, and Sentinel Fall); the tallest and largest single granite monolith in the world (El Capitan); and the world’s most recognizable mountain (Half Dome).

Lake Tahoe (not entirely in CA) at 22 miles long and 12 miles wide, it’s the largest alpine lake in North America), and depth (the deepest point is 1,645 feet, with a 72 mile long shoreline. In fact, it contains enough water to cover the entire state of California to a depth of 15 inches.

Longest living tree “Methuselah” is an unmarked bristlecone pine that is, by some accounts, 4,844 years old!

Tallest tree in the world, the common names include coast redwood, California redwood. This species includes the tallest trees living now on Earth, reaching up to 379 feet

The General Sherman Tree, a giant sequoia in Sequoia National Park has the largest volume of any tree in the world. It weighs approximately 2.7 million pounds, has a height of 274.9 feet, a circumference of 102.6 feet, and adds enough wood per year to make a 60-foot-tall tree. By volume, it is the largest known living single stem tree on Earth.

The highest number of bald eagles in winter is housed by the Klamath Basin National Wildlife Refuge. It is situated in the continental U.S.

The highest and lowest points in the continental United States are within 100 miles of one another. Mount Whitney measures 14,495 feet and Bad Water in Death Valley is 282 feet below sea level.

The Monterrey Bay National Marine Sanctuary covers 5,312 square miles, one and a half times the size of the largest national park in the continental U.S. Only a few miles offshore is Monterrey Canyon, the largest and deepest (3.2 km) underwater canyon off the Pacific coast of North America twice as deep as the Grand Canyon.

The Moreton Bay Fig Tree, located outside of Santa Barbara, is the nation's largest of it's kind. It has a span of over 160 feet and provides more than 21,000 square feet of shade.

Plumas County is home to the world's largest ponderosa pine tree. It is 334 feet tall, 24 feet around and 7.5 feet in diameter.

Dorrington, in Calaveras County, is home of the second largest sugar pine in the world. The tree boasts a 32-foot circumference and is 220-feet tall.

The Sutter Buttes in northern California may be the smallest stand alone mountain range in the world, measuring a mere mile in length.

California has more active volcanoes than any other U.S. state: Mt. Lassen, Mt. Shasta and Mammoth Mountain.

The largest gold nugget in the western hemisphere was unearthed in 1854 at the gold mine in Carson Hill, Calaveras County.

The Joshua Tree Forest on Cima Dome is the largest, tallest and most dense in the United States.

Giant Rock, located north of the Joshua Tree National Park, is the world's largest solitary boulder at seven stories and weighing over 23,000 tons.

Lassen Volcanic Park is home to the world's largest plug dome volcano.

Eureka Dunes in Death Valley are 680 feet tall

Clear Lake is the largest natural freshwater lake within California and is the oldest lake in North America.

The area of Geysers near Clear Lake is the world's largest geothermal region.

The largest coast live oak tree reaching 58 feet tall, more than 28 feet in trunk circumference, and boasting a 75 foot wide crown, the coast live oak tree still continues its 250 year residency in Wynola today.

Lava Beds National Monument is the location of the highest concentration of lava tube caves in the world, the highest concentration of pictographs and petroglyphs in California, the longest lava tube cave in California (Mammoth Cave), the deepest lava tube cave in California (Crystal Cave), the largest obsidian flow in California and perhaps the world.

The San Francisco Bay is the largest natural harbor and estuary on the West Coast.

Point Lobos State Reserve has more than 300 species of wildflowers.

Vichy Springs Resort & Inn, near Ukiah, is home to the only naturally-carbonated hot springs in North America.

At least three pygmy forests thrive along the Sonoma-Mendocino coast.

Largest county in the country San Bernadino

California's Proposition 215 (1996) was the first statewide medical marijuana initiative to pass in the USA ( this should be reason enough for a lot of you!)

Located in Sacramento, the California State Railroad Museum is the largest museum of its kind in North America.

California has the largest economy in the states of the union. If California's economic size were measured by itself to other countries, it would rank the 7th largest economy in the world. California is the first state to ever reach a trillion dollar economy in gross state product.

And if that is not enough the greatest collection of cool people on the planet. These factoid were gathered using the internet. So it must be true

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Kennyt: Re your comment.

Fritz, They always come back.


That's good. I hope those fleeing Idaho carry a wolf back under each arm.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
Fritz like a lot of states, things would be far better without some of it's citizens:
Credit: Charlie D.
Hope to share a rope with you sometime in the City. Unlike a lot of CA climber's (apparently) I do travel from time to time. Both my boys flew the coop and landed in your neighboring states of Utah and Montana, the COR is our place of reunion.

Peace and love from the Golden State,

Charlie D.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
Liberal politics has ruined this state, make no mistake. Just like New York and Illinois.

The policies of the state at the gov't level have chased high-income earners (high-tax payers) and business out. The result? Tax-payers flee and, laregely, tax consumers stay to suck more from our resources.

Welcome to Europe.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Why are you still here? why not move to a red state? Texas maybe
John M

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:46pm PT


We only have 90 billionaires now.

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0511/top-9-states-with-the-most-billionaires-.aspx


where does that rank us nationwide? hmmmm
QITNL

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
Where The Rich Live In America: Connecticut, California And Virginia Top The List
http://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/2013/02/12/where-the-rich-live-in-america-conneticut-california-and-virginia-top-the-list/

The Geographic Concentration of High-Income Households: 2007–2011
Issued February 2013
http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-23.pdf

Facts? Who needs them?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
Maybe if California rescinded the short sighted citizen referendum votes on everything down to who's paying for a new stop sign or cross walk paint, California's government could actually govern.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
90 billionaires and citys are going bankrupt, and your debt is one of the largest in the union..hhmmm...
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
Jim, I've got some California places for you to check out for extra flavor:

San Ardo
King City
Kettleman City
Lost Hills
Los Banos
Borrego Springs
Oxnard
Soledad

QITNL

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Is there like some kind of Nevada climbing forum where we can go take pot shots at Nevada?

Oh! I didn't think so! Too bad!
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
Every time I go to California I wish I could have seen it 200 years ago.

Even though I started climbing in '67 I didn't get to Yosemite until '88. Spent a month and had a good time but have never had even the slightest desire to go back.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
that's what I said about Mexico.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
that's what I said about Mexico.


Ahahahahaha!!! You're on fyah!


And, well, you have a great point.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
<<<^^^ I thought So Cal was part of Mexico?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
it could be now
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
Snowmassguy writes:

"I thought So Cal was part of Mexico?"




It's more like Mexico is a part of SoCal.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
40 years ago THIS WAS A RED STATE. Keep laughing it up, as#@&%es, how you're "transforming" the country/state. Then, check in in with the current, liberated, editors of the recovering Communist Pravda news paper.

Get back to me when you see the f*#king light, idiots! But you never will, you will sliver away like little snails and the animals you are.

Have a look;
Credit: bluering
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
Bluering was voted most likely to have an aneurysm in Highschool. Damn, dude, what's your blood pressure run?
storer

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
In 1964 tuition at U.C. (including Berkeley) was $110 per semester ($220 per year).
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
How we managed to buy a home(s) and live in So Cal......

First: Bought our first home at age 23 in a Barrio in Orange. Had 3 of our 4 kids there. Best experience ever. We were the only non-Hispanics. $2000 down payment.

Second: Sold the home 5 years later (after we'd fixed it up)and used the profit to buy a larger home, again in Orange, CA.

Third: Lived there 6 years and bought a home in rural San Diego on 2.5 acres.

It was a huge stretch. We couldn't really afford the SD home, so we cut back big time in many areas of life style. For example: we came home once and our brother (in law) was waiting for us in our home. He pointed out the ice on the kitchen window. We told him propane was expensive.

Bottom line: California as a state is a wonderful, eclectic piece of real estate that is unmatched in my opinion. I've thought this through plenty, trust me. I could move anywhere, but this will remain my base.

Politics have screwed this state up financially and I'm sorry for that. Gave it a huge effort at one point to turn this around but I'm out of it now. People expect stuff for free.....nothings free. But I love this state and the incredible beauty it gives us.

PS And when you sneak off to enjoy it, it costs nothing. Just leave no trace, please. Cheers, lynnie
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
DMT, I know you think I'm a dumbass, but look at the realities of what is....reality.

Kids indoctrinated with Gay Crap early on.

Religion is stupid and misguided. Avoid it!

Diversity is ALWAYS good, bilingual educational studies. You're racist if you disagee.

Men are stupid. They need to be ruled by women and children. (Watch current TV commercials).

The US Miltary hates people. This is everywhere.

The Communist Manifesto is in effect. Actively! Read it. Also read the Venona Papers, the communist plan to accomplish what they are doing now.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
Says whom, exactly, Mr Victim?
I dig Cali a lot. My Mecca(s) lie there. There are many. I don't give a Rat's ass what People say. Talk is cheap.
Next.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
You talking to me, Skully?
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
You're quite practiced at being a DICK, blue guy. Lighten up, stupid.
No body gives a sh#t what you think.
You and Hedge were made for each other.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
Bluering was voted most likely to have an aneurysm in Highschool. Damn, dude, what's your blood pressure run?


I was a regular pothead and heroin user in my later days of high-school. Then I came to my senses. Only used junk for a year though, pothead for a while.

I grew up. Now I just drink, hehe....not much better!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:00am PT
Whoo, Skully!

I feel like we're in line for another Bluey blow-up.

I was a regular pothead and heroin user in my later days of high-school. Then I came to my senses. Only used junk for a year though, pothead for a while.

I grew up. Now I just drink, hehe....not much better!


That's cool. Not what I was talking about, but cool nonetheless.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:03am PT
Dead Kennedys anybody?

"California Uber Alles"

I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president...

Carter Power will soon go away
I will be Fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school!

[Chorus:]
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!

[Chorus]

Now it is 1984
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece

Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes here's a pretty flower.

DIE on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will croak, you little clown
When you mess with President Brown
When you mess with President Brown

[Chorus]
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:04am PT
Credit: kennyt
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:06am PT
Dig that Dingus, huh?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:07am PT
I don't think blurring listens to the dead kennedys hank Williams jr. I'm gessin
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:07am PT
You're quite practiced at being a DICK, blue guy. Lighten up, stupid.
No body gives a sh#t what you think.
You and Hedge were made for each other.

O.k., I'm the "dick" from the as#@&%e that rails against anti-political "bullshit". You're too stupid to realize how hypocritical you are. That's cool though. Climb on, bro!

Dingus? Whatever. You seem to like hurling subtle insults. I kind dig that if they're done in satire, like you implied.

This place is short on satirical jokes and jabs at one another.

Geez, I hope we go climbing soon, cabin-fever and bombs is getting people riled up!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:11am PT
Read this, DMT: http://spectator.org/archives/2013/04/24/immigration-gambles

By Thomas Sowell, an intellectual "black" man (he doesn't call himself that}

He makes good points against your stance
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Relax. It's not like you can stop the Tide.
The Tide rises. It will fall again.
Relax.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:27am PT
Uglies have just as much enfranchisement for paying the bills as any other human based on aesthetics.

Living in a beautiful city and being a one man cog in a service based industry has taught me that only people I like or get along with have any merit on looks.

You can be as ugly as you are, as long as you pay my bill.

Here, we live in a city where people work into their children's future for the chance at staking out ownership of a 2 room apartment as a legacy for the same kids.

First world problems are still a problem because carrying the freight is local and is as relative as you can stand, locally...

So, having to sympathize with the troubles of a client who's getting heat from the bank and unilaterally putting everyone on a surprise ! 90 day payable expectation is somewhat refreshing when the staring contest can result in the client owning something valued at 4 to 5 million bucks! ...

This is in a city where entry level 1 bedroom apartments the size of a semi-nice motel room go for $300,000.00 and up from there.

How this relates to California in comparison to the rest of North America, has been well stated by an ST poster;

" the difference is we don't live under a glacier for two thirds of the year"...
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:29am PT
Ahh california; it's a beaut of a state to visit (not counting the rat race population centers), but soon nobody will be able to afford to live their as desperation for tax revenue increases. Maybe the last permanent residents can turn out the lights and the whole place can then be turned into a national park.

Says the man from the People's Republic of Alaska. Said state funded by confiscating the wealth of oil companies. Right on, comrade!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Brennan the interglacial is over. You and your apartments will soon be buried in the continental ice sheet.
Edit- Gary our repub governor (former oil co lobbyist) just succeeded in a major reversal of oil co taxes.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:38am PT
So it's like Napa?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:42am PT
Nah Skully, more like Beverly Hills.The northern burbs matter little as the tail wags the dog.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:45am PT
I think Dnigus plays the 1% card a bit too much in this. I'm stuck in the middle. I'm getting out-bidded by Chinese nationals here.

Don't know if that's good!
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:46am PT
Napa is but a few scant miles from Vallejo.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:47am PT
It'd be nice, as a Cal native, that I could score a property.

Prolly not!!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:50am PT
Ok Dingus,

It's been said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

So what's the last word on what defines beauty VS. something that looks good ?

It's all about having a good life, right?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:52am PT
Edit- Gary our repub governor (former oil co lobbyist) just succeeded in a major reversal of oil co taxes.

Bummer.

One more thing, California has The Dude:
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:53am PT
Hell Blue the chinese are busy buying the rest of America they don't already own. I just bought seven building lots in Dayton Nevada from a national that had never step foot in country.
Edit:oh yeah Gary i bet they never heard the Wasilla Philharmonic Orchestra.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:53am PT
Bluering,

Being a native has never amounted to anything if the real estate you grew up on becomes more valuable than you can afford. You know, money talks...
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:54am PT
To quote Todd Gordon, "the best climbing in California, is in Arizona"
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Scottsdale, AZ is Hollywood East.

(To quote me after seeing too many silicone grannies.)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:31am PT
I'm getting out-bidded by Chinese nationals on ALL the properties I look/bid on. They are way over-bidding us with State money from China.

China buys California.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:34am PT
Jimmy, I hear ya. But I hate to see my state and country go "sold".

It;s f*#king sad to me....I loved this place.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:37am PT
Then play the game like the rest of the people on the planet do !
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:40am PT
Last generation it was Japan and before that it was the Saudis. They gotta sell to the next guys, who sell to the next bunch, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(novel);

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:42am PT
Explain, Jim. I'm a fighter, believe it or not, I just fight with different tools.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:47am PT
Check yer mail, Jim, I do most of my work on Twitter and a blog nowadays.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:58am PT
Bluering,

If you want to live somewhere nice and familiar, you have to assume it's value in a civil manner. There is no fighting, just driving a hard bargain because you aren't alone in wanting to be there.

If you want to take the romantic route of protectionism as it applies to sentimentality for a patch of land, that can render your home valueless.

California is the global example of why direct democracy by referendum VS.voting for a stable government is a failed ideal. Every self interested voter with a 50' x 100' lot can affect (as one example) whether public schools should be funded or left to twist in the wind.

At some point individualism naturally reaches a limit.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:07am PT
You're pretty correct, Jim. I hear ya!!!

It's just hard to move. My job of 15 yeARS, the wife of 15 years, just hard to pick up and go. Texas is looking good though!

Or Canada. Can I bring my sidearm .45 up there? If I keep it in the house?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:17am PT
The problem is that I'm a cranky 43-yr old. And I hate hippies, or just dislike them. I am on a mission to reclaim this State.

I am a Rand Paul conservative, a libertarian.

I love California, born/bred! I will change it!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:33am PT
Isn't it weird that someone named Rand is the new Reagan?

Or not?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:34am PT
"I do most of my work on Twitter and a blog nowadays."

Credit: apogee
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:39am PT
I don't see the problem, Apogee. Is there one?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:44am PT
'apogee'
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:46am PT
typo.....so what are we librarians now!!

geeez.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:48am PT
This is news to you?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:40am PT
It does appear some Californians are fleeing paradise.



Fritz is correct. Thousands of Californians have relocated in Idaho.

Idaho Falls, in particular, has many new subdivisions of identical design houses erected and seemingly filled with Californians...many with no visible means of support. The rumor is they sell their homes in California at exaggerated prices, move up here and just ...live.

Perhaps that's inaccurate hearsay...but there isn't that much work for newcomers in the I.F. economy with the Navy having left and the Department of Energy projects being downsized.

Decency posits extending a welcome. But many locals are apprehensive the new arrivals will change the erudite and enlightened character of Idaho.

Some are nice...but many are contrary and even belligerent. And when locals hear new arrivals ranting anti-God bluster, see ancestral parks turn into gay hangouts and read cynical letters to the editor attributing selfish motives to everything Idaho...they get polarized and want to oppose the émigrés...

And as with most social turmoil...it's the most pleasant and most innocent individuals who get their feelings hurt...
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:43am PT
just hard to pick up and go. Texas is looking good though!

Well then, Bluey, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of town. Enjoy Texas. We don't need your negative waves, man.


Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:06am PT
They paved over paradise
Put in a parking lot!
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Heck Jennie maybe I.F. needs their own little version of Manzanar, except this time the tenants will be white folks.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2013 - 10:44am PT
Interesting summation Jennie......not believing in the existence of God, however, is not being anti God. How can you possibly be against or opposed to something/someone you don't believe exists?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:49am PT
the erudite and enlightened character of Idaho.

..pffft, what a twit.


As far as I know, Idaho is still part of the USA... you know, constitution, free speech, and all that. Funny that Idaho has no problem taking advantage of the Navy and the Department of Energy projects, the majority of which come from federal tax revenue generated in states with HUGE economies like CA, and whine like little bitches when it dries up. You fools contribute less than 3% to the US economy. Quit your bitchin you self-righteous as#@&%es.

Idahole is ahead of only Mississippi in GDP per capita.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:13am PT
And when locals hear new arrivals ranting anti-God bluster, see ancestral parks turn into gay hangouts

Those gay people and their park takeovers.

EDIT: Pesky gay people
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:40am PT
hahaha, internet entertainment as its finest! carry on!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Steve and Sandy from SoCal, Degnan's,
Steve and Sandy from SoCal, Degnan's,
Credit: mouse from merced
We're all too beautiful...
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:14pm PT

Jennie said:
"....new arrivals will change the erudite and enlightened character of Idaho."

I don't believe anyone has ever used the words "erudite and enlightened" as a description of Idaho. Ever. Congrats on being creative. I was looking for the [/sarcastic] tag at the end there Jennie, it seems you forgot it......I'm also inserting a :-) tag here.

Regards






Dingus said:
"...Fritz we already have one of your wolves down here and the poor old sot can get a job I'm afraid. He just isn't qualified to make it here. He got lost trying to make his way back too, the poor sonofabitch.

Anyway you can come get your wolf any time :-)"

Even the Wolf couldn't take living in Calif. and moved out.
http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2013/03/20/lonely-lobo-is-a-california-wolf-no-more/

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:24pm PT

Given the demographic change occuring, plus the ability to vote in things, how long until the voters reject affiliation with the US and vote to become part of Mexico?

Como Amigos?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
boy, it has been a long time since the "Become Part of Mexico" initiative was on the ballot.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
My town looks like India. The next town like China. And we all want to belong to Mexico!!!

You liberals are all stupit fockers and asswhores!!!
Your openmindednass drives this country to knowwere!!!
You fuk with the second amantment braking third and fifth in the process!!!
You shitwholes stay away from my freedome!!!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Jennie,

Count your blessings for those Californians.

Every other middle aged white guy in Idaho is a retired cop or firefighter from California. They retire at fifty, and spend their six-figure pension income living in Idaho.

Wait until California's current mostly Mexican public workforce retires, and moves up there. Idaho will have to make some adjustments. We'll see how erudite and enlightened y'all are.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Gay fiestas galore!! coming to a park near you. at least they have the imitation of Christ dashboard decorations.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
It is all fun and games until the Gay Gang rivalry heats up and "shots" are fired at innocent bystanders
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
^^^

Nice chaps, must be Californians. I need a pair of those!

DMT
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
They've subverted the ancestral glory holes and didn't join the militia! Durn Californians!

Ah, man, this is great stuff.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
a "glory hole" is a vent shaft in a mine..
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
That's one use of the term, Ron. You innocent naïf!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
There goes the neighborhood Jennie. Soon the property taxes will rise to stratospheric highs, the local government infiltrated and corrupted,new morals imposed on the populace. Once infested the original population often has to abandon ship to escape the plague.
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:07pm PT

I've said it before and I'll say it again- I love California...

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUKcNNmywk]
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
There goes the neighborhood Jennie. Soon the property taxes will rise to stratospheric highs, the local government infiltrated and corrupted,new morals imposed on the populace. Once infested the original population often has to abandon ship to escape the plague.


American on American warfare! What a tragedy.

Myopic provincialism will find any port in a storm.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
"erudite" means having learned from books.

Just readin' ya yer wrongs.

In my state, I just am used to so many Mexicans that it bothers me not.

My mom was born (and likely bored) in Idaho and moved to California.

I am not about to move to Idaho.

I'd sooner be six feet under in California.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Rick, maybe you can buy some lots and build some trac homes up there for the Californians. the stucco and vinyl window guy's will be stoked not to mention the truss co. you could just take the plans from your upcoming Dayton, nv. adventure.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Some of the most wildlife loaded, gorgeous areas ive been in, were in Idaho.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
Been building them for years up here in Ak Kenny. As with other warm weather transplants, a couple good old fashioned Alaskan winters see the for sale signs pop up. Between here and NV there"s more than enough transplants to build for without heading to the potato state.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
So ya build their homes and then call them a plague? That's a conflicted little position you've got there.

Boy, Americans exploring their own country. What a travesty! Sheesh, if California slid off into the sea, I wonder who'd get your bitch.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
I'm a businessman Jebus, we build for whoever pays us. But when the immigrants start to impose their values on the new local culture it gets a little annoying. You know- When in Rome do as the Romans -or go home to the values you desire.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
we build for whoever pays us.

Put that on yer website or the side of yer work trucks it's catchy
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
You know- When in Rome do as the Romans -or go home to the values you desire.


Wrong country, dude, this is America.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
Hey Rick,

how much mark up do you enter for blue tarps when quoting a Wasilla roofing job ?

10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
I don't believe anyone has ever used the words "erudite and enlightened" as a description of Idaho

hell, I don't think anyone has ever used the words "erudite and enlightened" on any SuperTopo thread
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
OK Jebus, granted this is America, but do we have to be all homogenized californians? I came from cali 31 years ago, i changed, the local country didn't. If we are all the same where is the diversity to celebrate?

Brennan- yeah we charge extra for blue tarp specials or avoid them altogether.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
OK Jebus, granted this is America, but do we have to be all homogenized californians? I came from cali 31 years ago, i changed, the local country didn't. If we are all the same where is the diversity to celebrate?

I don't buy your argument that this is what's happening. And if it is? Tough titty. Happened to the Indians, happened to the Mexicans who owned California afterward, and if you're culture isn't strong enough to resist, I guess it will happen to you too. That's the American way, we bring our culture with us like yogurt.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
diversity only counts in CA???



SPEAK ENGLISH



or DIE..




Two route names by an ol buddy of many...Whos father was a Japanese immigrant.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Yes you're right Jebus. Change is the one constant and is inevitable but doesn't happen overnight. In the mean time transplants must assimilate more than the visible change in the new culture.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
I'm talking about America, Ron. If your culture gets washed out by a few newcomers to town, I guess you didn't have much going on.

In the mean time transplants must assimilate more than the visible change in the new culture.


There are a lot of ways to do things. Some people move to assimilate, and some move to take what they've got somewhere else. Retirement communities and the like. I just don't see the use of crying about it, unless you can make the laws and such recognize your unique status and protect what you have. Money makes right in this country, for better or for worse.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
I'm going to go work on stormtroopers,I hope it has a bolted anchor;)
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
n 1964 tuition at U.C. (including Berkeley) was $110 per semester ($220 per year).

I realize I'm quoting a statement about 100 posts ago, but, in fact, U.C. tuition, denominated tuition, was non-existent until the 1970-71 school year. In 1969, I paid an annual fee of about $100 at Berkeley, covering things likes ASUC and various other campus "amenities." Then, in 1970-71, I had to pay $100 per trimester as an "educational fee" aka tuition. There was a great outcry about this, and at least one graduate from the 1920's sent her diploma back to "those cabbageheads [sic}" on the Regents imposing that fee.

By the 1978-79 year, When I graduated from law school and grad school, that fee was up to $750.00 annually, regardless of whether the student was enrolled in undergraduate, graduate or professional school.

Now, the tuition for the U.C. law schools exceeds $42,000.00 annually, and the U.C. undergrad tuition for in-state students exceeds $12,500, with an extra approximately $22,000 for out-of-state students. Needless to say, these increases far outpace the rate of inflation.

To me, education generally constitutes investment. Our current California budget seems loaded with consumption, and impoverished in investment. I don't know how we reverse that trend, but it seems a rather expensive price to pay to house 90 billionaires.

John
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California

Apr 25, 2013 - 11:01am PT
I'm going to go work on stormtroopers,I hope it has a bolted anchor;)




nnnope,, just five fixed pins along the way.. Good luck! And your welcome for the locker pin scars..;-)
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Our current California budget seems loaded with consumption, and impoverished in investment.


Heck, we are getting a hi-speed train, what more to you need?


kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
O.K. never mind then I'm goin to the leap.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
seems like you could get that one Kenny. I did a move or two free when i nailed it lol! Its endurance fest bu that crack is a STELLAR one truly, and is highly under rated..
QITNL

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
I agree, it's sad that college tuition is rising, but this problem is not unique to California.

Some info below from this site:
http://soquelbythecreek.blogspot.com/2012/05/california-higher-education-not-enough.html

which pulled its charts from here:
http://www.hecb.wa.gov/sites/default/files/TuitionandFees2009-10Report-Final.pdf

Flagship Universities and Colleges

California boasts some of the world's best public universities. The University of California Berkeley (UC Berkeley) is affiliated with more Nobel Prizes than most nations. Despite some of the nation's highest cost-of-living expenses, expensive real estate, high taxes, and high housing costs, the in-state tuition for California residents at one of these world-class facilities ranks 14th highest in the nation--above the national average, but nearly 35% less than Pennsylvania--the nation's highest.



Comprehensive Colleges and Universities

While California has a few world-renowned public universities, it also has a broad network of excellent mainstream colleges and universities. Despite high living costs and a whopping 26.2% increase from the prior year, California had only the nation's 35th highest (12th lowest) tuition and fees for residents attending these facilities. The 26.2% increase was the 2nd biggest year-to-year increase, second only to Georgia. California residents tend to remember the massive increase and likely don't know the great value they receive in reduced tuition compared to residents in other states.



Community Colleges

Besides its flagship universities and comprehensive colleges and universities, California also enjoys a vast network of community colleges. These facilities often provide needed vocational training and skills building necessary to become successful in today's job market. They also offer a way for low-income students to pass required classes before transferring to one of California's mainstream facilities. Where do tuition and fees ranks for California residents? California has the nation's lowest-cost tuition and fees for residents studying at community colleges even after a 30% year-to-year increase--the third fastest increase after Georgia and West Virginia.



How does California maintain such low tuition and fees for residents? Because the costs of public higher education is subsidized by California taxpayers.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
odd,, the "Labor and workforce and development" is the slightest sliver of them all.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again... I'm in my second year of taking courses at the local CC and I am personally very impressed with the California Community College system. ANYONE who wants to go to college even just to try it out can do so in California. Many schools also offer 1 or 2 year certifications which fill an incredibly large gap in the workforce. I know way too many people who spent four years (or six) earning an almost useless BA (in terms of specific skills) that could have spent half the time (or less) and about 1/10th of the money to earn a degree at a CC that would have put them directly into the workforce with opportunity for advancement. Plus it's ridiculously cheap and in general the instruction has been quality, with an exception or two.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
bergbryce,

Having taught in the community college system, I start by admitting my bias. In my opinion, that system is one of California's true jewels. I still find it ironic that the day Governor Brown proudly announced that his administration is going forward with the high speed rail white elephant, CCSF was informed that it was in danger of losing its accreditation because of financial issues.

Unrepresented in the pie charts above, we seem to be spending our money in a way that maximizes compensation to public employees, but has no particular concern for what we receive in return.

John
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Interesting summation Jennie......not believing in the existence of God, however, is not being anti God. How can you possibly be against or opposed to something/someone you don't believe exists?


Apologies if my post antagonized you, Mr Donini.

(I feel no ire toward concientious and plainspoken doubters of God. I used "anti-God bluster" in reference to those who deliberately try to provoke believers.)

Cultural and religious differences require a pinch of delicacy to avoid conflict.

Obviously, some have a fondness and proclivity for conflict... and relocating to another region and pointedly nettling the locals secures them the conflict they love.

(Most arrivals from the southwest don't fit that category)
sullly

Trad climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
Erudite in Idaho? Try Ezra Pound and Ernest Hemingway.
QITNL

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
Unrepresented in the pie charts above, we seem to be spending our money in a way that maximizes compensation to public employees, but has no particular concern for what we receive in return.

One example of that is a generous and unsustainable pension system, a political hot potato, not unique to California but shared by most states. I'd see that as a generational issue - not region specific. The older generation set itself up to live high on the hog while my generation inherits your deficit. Gee, thanks.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
rj lives
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
The places my dad rented to mormons always smelled like Spaghetti-O's and/or cats when they left.
Barbarian

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
California is awesome. The problem with living in Orange Couty is you are $200 in gas and 5-6 hours from anyplace you really want to be.

Eagles were right...."you can check out any time you want, but you can never leave."
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
The places my dad rented to mormons always smelled like Spaghetti-O's and/or cats when they left.

No Lime Jello? Are you SURE they were Momos?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
Lime jello doesn't really have a smell, does it?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
The problem with living in Orange Couty is you are $200 in gas and 5-6 hours from anyplace you really want to be.

WTF do you drive???????????????????
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Jennie: How about a run at Gov'nor?

Welcome, Krab...

I think we better go with Fritz for governor. The Boise area and the panhandle would never vote for a mormon twit...
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
The Boise area and the panhandle would never vote for a mormon twit...

Ain't that all you gots up there?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:24pm PT


Rocky, so long as you here you might be interested in this:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-wolf-attacks-still-leading-cause-of-death-in,32170/
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
In recent time, along with the bleeding of our natural resources we have had downturns in the military budgets of the numerous very large military establishments in the state, and our base industry "giants" (like Albertsons, Hewlet/packard, Morrison Knudsen) bought out and sold after loading with debt, or disolved totally, absorbed. Idaho is number one in independant business.

Hahahaaa... number one in "independant" business... hahahaaaa... is that what you call it when all your big businesses fail because of an incompetent work force that can't spell despite having an 18:1 student:teacher ratio? morans!

Tell us again about the evils of big government... you know, the one that provided all those jobs you now lament...

fuking tea baggers
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:45pm PT


Ain't that all you gots up there?

force that can't spell despite having an 18:1 student:teacher ratio? morans!

f----- tea baggers


(At the peril of offending), I'd scrutinize why your linguistic skills have declined since you left the U, sir...

Oh, silly me...geology doctoral candidates are required to become experts in transformational-generative grammar!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
I am on a mission to reclaim this State.

I am a Rand Paul conservative, a libertarian.

I love California, born/bred! I will change it!!

Apparently you're a comedian too. The only way you're going to "change" this state is by paying your state income taxes in nickels and dimes. Maybe you missed the fact that 2/3 of the population in our great state has no interest in becoming West-Alabama.

But please, act on your desire...move to Texas. Maybe then you can shut the f*#k up with the whining about your lot in life and how it's all the fault of those nefarious Californee libruls.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
oh silly you is right... this ain't my fuking dissertation... nor are it geology.

Besides, I were educated but 2 ours from Idaho... what does ya spect?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
Idaho is blessed with Jennie and Fritz.....euridition, humor and kindness from both.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
People without the land under their home shouldn't be allowed to vote. Renters don't take care of anything.

yeah, wealthy land owners are the only one's who REALLY know how things should be run. I'd feel much better about those lazy renters voting if we could just get them to contribute something to the system... there has to be a way...
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Bite it, "Krab"....you no honor bastage. The Exiled return at THEIR peril.
Up yours, now and always, you POS. Honor your GD exile, you puke.
You have no idea.

edit: Ol' Rox IS an Alabaman. Or an Alabamchild.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
My oh my! I never intended this thread to spawn so many reactionary comments.....i'm talking about California not Alabama.
Only landowners voting.....that still leaves too many intelligent people, perhaps you should say people with at least ten acres.....that's sure to lower the IQ.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
seems like you could get that one Kenny. I did a move or two free when i nailed it lol! Its endurance fest bu that crack is a STELLAR one truly, and is highly under rated..

It's on the list for this summer



Credit: kennyt

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:57pm PT

edit: Ol' Rox IS an Alabaman. Or an Alabamchild.

Krab would know better than anyone.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
Rox Jox is back!!!
Yeah!!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Not that it matters
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Well you know, California is known as being famous for its' fruits, and nuts. Jus sayin'
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Yeah, CA uses all that water to feed the rest of the nation and support the people who fuel the state with the largest GDP in the nation... and of course to grow grass for our pitbulls to sh#t on.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Sigh.

I will point out that the thread title & meaning is California.

But since my name keeps coming up: I ain't running for political office in Idaho.

Back in 1967, After I spent a few months as an Idaho Legislative aide (page), whose work mostly consisted of running bribes to state Senators from cigar-smoking lobbyists: I swore off politics for life.

I do want to comment on a comment Sullly made back a ways in this thread:

Erudite in Idaho? Try Ezra Pound and Ernest Hemingway.

Yes, Ezra Pound was born and raised in Idaho, but got out as soon as possible.

Hemingway chose to live in Ketchum, after U.S. politics forced him out of his beloved Cuba after Castro’s rise to power.

Despite being quite friendly to us locals, Hemingway committed suicide here a few years later.

Hemingway & I would exchange greetings when he walked by our house, and my father was one of his many local friends.

Rumors that Hemingway was despondent that the conversations with us locals, consisted mainly of variations of “Get your elk??” ------are just mean and untrue.


goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
California is so 20th century,
Chile & Argentina is the place to be nowadays.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
I believe in REAL people. I met Roxy. F*#k you Roxy.
Like I said, I believe in REAL people.
Same advice to you as Crazy Blue. Stop. Breathe. Think. Don't obsess. Above all, RELAX, you Dumbass.
Ranting is for FOOLS. G'Head, prove me right. Again.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
Hemingway.....let's see, Africa, Spain, pre Castro Havana and....oh yes, Idaho. Hemingway was forced to leave his beloved Cuba on July 25th 1960. A brief visit to Spain and then to Sun Valley. Depressed, he had several sessions of electro shock therapy at the Mayo Clinic, the last in June of 1961. He returned to Sun Valley on 6/30 and dispatched himself with his favorite shotgun on 7/2/61.
Has anyone reminded Larry Craig that fellatio with his favorite shotgun (everyone in Idaho has one) would have avoided the embarrassment of the lewd conduct charge in a Mpls. airport bathroom.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
There's quite a list of well published writers from Idaho. Hasn't anyone heard of Heather Sharfeddin, Beatrice Sparks and Mimi LaFollette Summerskill?

O.K. how about Edgar Rice Burroughs, the creator of Tarzan?

What's more erudite than Tarzan...

But the publishing industry was back east and after a book was written there were many weeks of editing with the publishers there. Many writers moved closer to Madison Avenue.

I supposed that's a moot point since we've hijacked the thread from our blessed and favored cousins in the southwest...
John M

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
What i want to know is for every Californian who moves to Idaho, how many Idahoans move to California? The complainers never mention that.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
My younger brother moved to Antioch...I'm definitely NOT complaining!
:-)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 26, 2013 - 11:16am PT
There's quite a list of well published writers from Idaho. Hasn't anyone heard of Heather Sharfeddin, Beatrice Sparks and Mimi LaFollette Summerskill?

Nope.

hmm, I wonder how that list compares to well published writers from CA...
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:34am PT
In 1842 the Sawyers (from St Joseph, Missouri) set out with others from Missouri on the Oregon Trail, as I understand it, there was some discussion about swerving south on the California Trail, but it was still a 'rough' trail, so to Oregon they went and then to Washington, settling in what is now the Olympia/Tumwater area. Where my dad was from, mom was a West Virginian.

Just think if they decided to take the California Trail. How would that have turned out?

Both my brothers and a sister were born in Seattle (I could live there - Cascades, alpine climbing, Leavenworth rock, Washington Pass, BC to the north, Olympic rain forest, Puget Sound). My other sister and I were born In Walnut Creek CA.

So if we ever win the lottery, I (and Jennie) need to live by the sea, hence northern California, Provençe, Corsica, Seattle or thereabout, maybe Oregon. Though Lake Tahoe is big enough to remind us of the sea.

Nevada is beautiful and so is Colorado, and I understand that even Boise is up and coming, but no sea in those places.


EDIT

i wuz bornded in LANCASTER,, when it was A through F street period..

Jeez Ron, I drove through Antelope Valley back in 1992, after many years of not being there. It's dreadful, Lancaster and Palmdale are like, merged. HIgh desert environments are so fragile.

I was with my then Irish girlfriend Marie and my mom heading back from a cousin's wedding in Malibu (actually from my aunt's in San Bernardino).

Driving through Lancaster, my mom remarks: "Where will they find work?"

I replied: "Mom, we must have passed both a K-Mart and a Wal-Mart, and fast food joints, long commute to La La land. The question is, where will they find the water?"
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Roxy, when did your ancestors move to Boise? You part Shoshoni? You think you bought your property fair and square, doncha? Sucks that you don't have the smurts or quality facilities to attract responsible renters.

The last 3 houses I rented in Tahoe got: a new kitchen faucet, a new firewood storage shelter, a stone walkway, some drywall and painting work, the woodpecker holes patched, the shed door repaired, and under the stove cleaned for the first time in probably a decade.

They were cool. They deserved it and they appreciated it... and they were all "from" CA.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:26am PT
I thought Burroughs was from Tarzana....

Hemingway was married in Cheyenne. Lets not leave my state, one of 'em anyway, out.

What California really needs is sandstone cracks!
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:33am PT
Twenty years ago when I first had to leave California for school, I thought I couldn't live anywhere else.

Now, especially after some recent visits, I'm happy to live almost anywhere else.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:43am PT
H, nice list, but you forgot that the Farallon Islands is one of the largest Great White breeding grounds in the world and then there is the Mojave Green.

I love my home state, and I think that sharks and snakes are amazing creatures (with the exception of the Florida pythons and anacondas), but I don't particularly like being around them.

Surfing in Monterey Bay, anytime seaweed would brush up on my leg, I'd freak. "What was that?"

Face to face, approaching Snake Dike, as Jim Keating and I were mantling (unroped) to the start when on a ledge, about a foot in front of our faces, yep, a coiled buzzworm. We just dropped down the eight or so feet to the slab.

OFF TOPIC
I wonder who would win a 'fight' in the Everglades, would an anaconda take a python or vice versa. if they were of equal size. I'd pick the anaconda as it is more of a water snake.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Patrick,, i too hadnt been in SO CA for quite some time, then went down there in 1989. Did not recognize a thing, and as you say Lancaster was no longer a small cross roads in the Mohave,, but just another "burb" of never ending burbs!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:13am PT
A lot of great white people come from the faralons Patrick? I thought it was all rocks, seagulls rocks and Tiburon blancos grandes....

Imagine how different Lancaster was when Frank Zappa went to high school there...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:17am PT
The white sharks keep some of the surf spots in no. cal. from getting to crowded.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Patrick you're a true IrishMAN - a little GIRL around snakes hahahahahaha!

DMT
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
One example of that is a generous and unsustainable pension system, a political hot potato, not unique to California but shared by most states.

QITNL, also a hot potato here in Ireland as the bankers that helped bring down the economy and the politicians and senior civil servants that allowed it are still receiving handsome pensions/pension contributions from the State.

And of course the property developers and other financial institutions CEOs either get a slap on the wrist or move to the US, where they live in mansions, bought by hidden money. And Ireland's biggest chancer is now a media/communications billionaire.

While 'lower' public sector and private sector workers are seeing either their pensions reduced or even stripped. It's called 'austerity'.

The mandarins rule and don't care about the common people and middle class.

The one exception is President Michael D Higgins. He's honest and his honesty is to be listened to.


EDIT
I know the Irish were considered non-christian


Krab some truth to that, but it only applies to the politicians, senior civil servants, bankers, financiers and developers. With the one exception, Michael D.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Besides, I were educated but 2 ours from Idaho... what does ya spect?


If college entrance exams are viable index for rating a state's primary and secondary education system...Idaho will rate well. In 2012 ACT test scores, Idaho was 9th among the 50 states.


http://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?pageID=1439

That particular rating isn't equitable to Intermountain states like Wyoming and Colorado that mandate ALL seniors take the ACT...thus many non-college bound students take the test in those states while in Idaho 67% take the A.C.T.

A more evenhanded comparison might be the University of Missouri's "State Enlightenment Ratings" based on both SAT and ACT scores and factored by percentage of H.S. students taking the exams.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/uschartsat.html

Utah rates 7th, Montana 8th, Colorado 15th, Idaho and Wyoming tie for 16th.

California is well down the list at 37th. but the disadvantage is somewhat undue because that state's demographic is dissimilar to the intermountain states. I have great respect for California's primary and seconday educators and their manner dealing with the state's gravity and social milieu.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
So, Paddy, I take it you've not had the singular pleasure of stepping on a nice wee stingray at a lovely California beach?
sullly

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Jennie,
CA is currently being sued for not educating its ELLs (English language learners) well enough. The number of ELLs coming to the state is in decline due to the economy. Staff is being reduced due to fewer ELL sections. How many ELLs does Idaho have compared to CA? It takes six years to acquire a language.

I was at a CA district that payed for every student to take the PSAT. Results were mixed. We are a state that overtests.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
...appreciate your post Sullly. Yes, I believe states that overtest are cut short in many "by state" comparisons.

The intermountain states have calmer waters... language wise, and that's a huge factor in their scoring well in average SAT/ACT ratings.


EDIT:California has highest percentage of English language learners in it's public schools 28.9 % ...6.0% for Idaho.


http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/tables/table-ell-1.asp
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
I've no complaint with the public education my children received in California. Good teachers, good schools, decent enough peers and friends, no violence to speak of.

Ranking and comparing results are good for policy decisions I'm sure. Its also good when selecting university, private schools and even when seeking a new place to live.

Know what? The town I live in, do you know what the very first criteria we used when selecting it?

Yep. The school system. Then proximity to an airport (so I could get the f*#k outta here!).

We were and are involved with our kids' educations. Working from home when not traveling afforded me a participatory role some dads never achieve. I could go to my kids little school plays and walk them to and from elementary school when they were little (6 blocks down the street). I was there for their graduation ceremonies and teacher parent conferences. Their school administrators knew me and I knew them. We were involved.

My kids made excellent grades and I hope they have a decent foundation now to move on in the wider world.

Truth - there is not another state in these United States where I would rather raise my children, that I would rather call home.

That is no indictment on those other states. Its merely a statement of love on my part - California is one of the Great Loves of my life. Some of you may call her a slut or tell me she's a filthy whore or a dominatrix without mercy... and you'd be right. I might get mad though and return you a knuckle sammich for dissing her though.

And maybe she IS a slut but she's my slut and this I know - when it comes to beauty, in all its forms? She is the best looking State, by far. Don't get me wrong there are other beauties too. But California is the Beauty among beauties.

I'll be quiet now.

DMT
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 27, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
A good school drives up the neighborhood real estate prices, so it's not only those of you with kids who have an intrest in which schools are performing, and which schools are having trouble just going through the motions.

Test scores are important. So is the percentage of students receiving school supplied breakfast and lunch ( "free" lunch ).

At at least one of the elementary schools I attended in Fontana, the rate of "free" lunch participation is 100%!

My Dad still lives in that neighborhood, and it's not a poor looking place at all. People there seem to be doing pretty good, as evidenced by the number of RVs and boats in driveways, the big, gas-guzzlers needed to tow them, newer vehicles of all kinds, with fancy features added on at extra expense...you get the picture.

Yet not one family can afford a bowl of corn flakes and a baloney sandwich?

Of course they can afford to feed their kids. What's going on there is the school is gaming the system to the absurd. In my book, that is not a mark in the school's favor.

Oh, and their test scores are in the toilet, too.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
People without the land under their home shouldn't be allowed to vote. Renters don't take care of anything.

Krab, I can't believe you wrote that, tongue in cheek, right? I hope. Democracy. A lot of countries/regions in the past, and still, say that only landowners have the vote. Ireland was one, the US South where many tenants would never have gotten the vote, Britain at one time.

You are either joking or must have flunked civil government/studies in school.

And that is a sweeping statement of renters. Do you always tarnish a certain group with a broad brush?

Jennie and I have been in this house for well over five years. I had a new immersion heater put in, had the electrical board updated to switches from the old 'plugs', had a carpenter put in proper shelves in the kitchen closet, transformed the backyard (about the size of a very large tennis court) from brambles and weeds to one with a garden, a fence between two neighbors, a top-notch shed (with windows, shelving, workbench, electricity, desk) that I use as a second office, another good shed for storage, a top-notch €6,000 greenhouse, with plumbing, electricity, veggie beds and staging shelves), raised veggie beds, flower beds, veggie beds, a rockery, a better lawn (mowing is a pain as the front and side yards are also about the size of a tennis court together). Oh yes, the water tank cleaned out and water hose taps in the backyard (there were never any, we live in a 1930s bungalow).

In order for Jennie to be discharged into home care (me) August 2010, I put railings up both sides of the front steps, the (double) door back steps and side yard kitchen door steps for her safety as she couldn't walk very well at the time.

Altogether about €40,000 out of my pocket, dummy me.

And our landlord appreciates all those thing. He has reimbursed me for the heater and electrics (but not plumbing, which he should), but I footed the bill for the yard work and electric gates (had to for Jennie's safety, so she wouldn't wander up the close, actually it is called walking nowadays - used be called absconding - but dementia experts now call it walking, I guess it is a bit more PC), as I did those things on my own volition.

In hindsight I wish I had never transformed the backyard from brambles to a garden. Really stupid for a tenant to do. But I needed to make it safe, secure and comfortable.

So Krab, think before you tarnish people.

NB I have never trashed any place I have lived in in five countries.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
I was inquisitive about what segment of the Idaho population you're renting to, Krab...students, long time Idahoans, émigré from other states or confirmed transients. (?)

Just curious...I can perceive some of the difficulty in evaluating tenants before the fact...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 27, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Krab-if you have a number of rentals you need to get arms length away with professional management. They have the resources to better identify quality tenants from trash. Just make sure you let them know that they are accountable if the tenants they find do undue damage. It may take a bit of shopping to find the best agency.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
A lot of great white people come from the faralons Patrick?

Jaybo, LOL


The white sharks keep some of the surf spots in no. cal. from getting to crowded.

Kennyt, no doubt. I never saw one but I met a surfer who was in the water up by Bodega Bay and said one went close by, said he never paddled on his board so fast to shore.


Patrick you're a true IrishMAN - a little GIRL around snakes hahahahahaha!


Dingus, ROFLMAO (but I always try to stay away from venomous snakes).


So, Paddy, I take it you've not had the singular pleasure of stepping on a nice wee stingray at a lovely California beach?

Reilly, nearly a couple of times but they do not frighten me.



Jennie, Edgar Rice Burroughs was born in Illinois.

From Wikipedia
"and during the Chicago influenza epidemic in 1891, he spent a half year at his brother's ranch on the Raft River in Idaho."

(As I have read books on him, that’s it as far as know, six months or so, hardly makes him a native).

Also

Also another Illinois native was Ernest Hemingway, though he bought a house in Ketchum in 1940 (his summer residence), he only lived there permanently from 1959 until his death in 1961, as he travelled much of the time.

My late brother Mac had a romance with Jack’s older daughter, (Joan) Muffet Hemingway (Ernest’s granddaughter) and older sister of the late Margaux and Mariel.

It was on board the Regina Maris in 1970, a three-masted barquentine. He went on board in Southampton as a ship’s carpenter, she was a passenger.

Southampton to Portugal to Canary Islands across the Atlantic to Barbados and other ports and then through the Panama Canal up the coast to Ensenada.

My mom and I (14) drove down to meet him. We were walking in Tijuana, Mac and me ahead of Mom and Muffet when we heard a scream, some thief had snatched Muffet’s purse/handbag. I chased after him Mac right behind me. The thief disappeared down an alleyway. Police came along and in broken Spanish I tried to explain what happened.

Muffet stayed briefly at Mom’s and Mac drove her to Sun Valley. Visited her a couple of times.

She is into Scientology last I heard, living in her grandfather’s beloved Paris.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 27, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
bay area is alright, LA and Sac, armpits,

central valley? bad air, weird people,

sierra foothills? fire, dead pine trees, no jobs,

so you have 1 good place to live that has hi rent and traffic,

but you can drive 3 hours each way in traffic if you want outdoors,

major earthquake? on it's way,

so it ain't all bad, is it?

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Jennie, Edgar Rice Burroughs was born in Illinois.

From Wikipedia
"and during the Chicago influenza epidemic in 1891, he spent a half year at his brother's ranch on the Raft River in Idaho."

(As I have read books on him, that’s it as far as know, six months or so, hardly makes him a native).


Patrick, Mr Burroughs spent several years doing ranch work and drifting in Idaho in the 1890's...even Wikipedia intimates that...

But if you don't think Idaho can lay any claim to the author and the whole Tarzan apocrypha...

...there goes the state's precious pretension of erudition and enlightenment

:-)
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 27, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
I've browsed this thread a few times, and see that an anti-California bent is emerging as spring unfolds in the Golden State. Funny how people like to complain and criticize what they can't have. I'm not complaining, I'm dreaming. . . .





John Muir's Yosemite, that is:


I had to cut my hair and shine my shoes. Rick Vocelka literally handed me a pair of scissors from his desk drawer as I sat there in his office in 1976 and said I had a job if I'd cut my hair. I didn't do it right then, but came back a week of so later with a haircut and got on in the Ahwahnee DR.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 27, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
I could use a good Irish man who can do handiman work,

Well 4Real, I am not the best at handiwork, I can do some maintenance. After leaving England in January 1993 after seven years, I came home but couldn't find any ready journalism work. So a JHigh and HIgh School buddy was supervisor of maintenance at St Mary's College in Moraga, CA and got me a job, mainly painting, some carpentry (no electrical work, a bit of plumbing), and stuff for six months.

Then I went back to Cal State Hayward (now CSU East Bay) to finish up my BA (started at 17, graduating early from high school and finally at 39...) and start on my masters (the latter the one reason I ended up in Ireland in November 1985 to do an unpaid (went through my savings to live) internship for my masters in Michael D Higgins office for 13 months, then Minister for Arts, Culture and Gaeltacht, now President of Ireland).

If Jennie's conditions worsen in the coming months or years, it may be a nursing home (she's only 62, young nowadays), then I do not know what I will do. Stay in Ireland or "California Here I Come, Right Back Where I Started From". My brother Casey emailed me the other day saying Ireland may be better as there is no work in California (even though he acknowledges I have a very good media CV). But jobs are tough here and who wants to hire a 57 (this May 29)? Either back home or here in Eire.


Jennie, yeah I knew Burroughs drifted in and out of Idaho, so I guess he is an adoptive potatohead (ooops that may be derogatory, ha ha) Idahoan.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 27, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
I've browsed this thread a few times, and see that an anti-California bent is emerging as spring unfolds in the Golden State. Funny how people like to complain and criticize what they can't have.


As human beings we like to exalt our particular regions, congratulate our selfsame people and celebrate our own culture.

There's nothing unseemly about glorifying California, applauding her residents or acclaiming positive facets of Cali culture.

...but anyone lauding the state by dishing on other locale...might expect some rejoinder.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 27, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
They have the resources to better identify quality tenants from trash

you have such a way with words.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
Nah Kenny-spent the first 25 years as a sole proprietor, built hundreds of homes and never sued. Why? because i've always kept my commitments and stood behind my product. Only incorporated when i brought my sons in who likewise honor their commitments.As for Krab, he posted two or three times about his rental getting trashed so i offered advice that worked for me.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
Test scores are important.

Many of the freshmen in many of our colleges should just take their ACT on the road instead of burdening this state's educational system with drop-outs in the making.

School is what you make it, and we've made it all about grades, not learning.

What's that word I'm looking for, Mr. Braun?
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
Damn, Mouse. Why weren't you my teacher. I had the knowledge but poor grades ;). No future in Poland.

It is all the same, either in the USA or in Poland. Appearance is everything.

Stupid humans!
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 27, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
LA is Awesome!!!

Station Fire over Tujunga, Day 4
Station Fire over Tujunga, Day 4
Credit: Spider Savage
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 28, 2013 - 10:34am PT
http://crazifornia.com/2013/04/16/dirty-business-as-usual-at-california-high-speed-rail/
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 28, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Sounds good.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 28, 2013 - 11:12am PT
California is an incredible place to live. Filled with beautiful people and wonderful places to go.

I believe I would say the same had I been born and raised in Afghanistan, Peru or Vietnam.

I don't know if California has had much to do with having a positive attitude towards life in general but, it has definitely been a positive experience for me, so far.

and I can ride year 'round...

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 28, 2013 - 11:38am PT
TGT, I read some of Laer Pearce's writing/articles/blogs. Sounds like he right down your alley.

Do the C*ck Brothers have anything to with this?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 30, 2013 - 12:24am PT
A more evenhanded comparison might be the University of Missouri's...

nuff sed

Idaho fuking blows. The only sh#t worth a sh#t is in the Sawtoofs... the rest is shit
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 30, 2013 - 12:31am PT
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 18, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Hey, JIM!

Where ya off to next?



Better have some reservations @ staying here at this one on Old 99.
Better have some reservations @ staying here at this one on Old 99.
Credit: mouse from merced

California is a Decadent Destination,
But not in the Okies' estimation.
They came out here with great wide eyes;
Barely survived to their grating surprise.
This land of plenty
es caliente.
But to each Okie fool
They were decidedly cool,
Saying, "Go home again all of you gente."
--Rong Gomex

Please take no O'fence, Ron Gomez!

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 18, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Love California, in MANY spots. Others i wouldnt miss if the fell into the sea.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Nov 18, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Ahhhhhhh Dumb & Dumber, the absolute pinnacle of american cinema. It's all been downhill since. Thanks for the painful, but pleasant reminder Mouse.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 18, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
fishing will be GREAT along there for a while...!
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