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Messages 61 - 80 of total 119 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 7, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
No...it's about minimizing risk, which implies that risk is there.

I was just speaking in the context of why R$I called that climb trad. I had to un-explode to write this!

so protection is [often] pre-placed and the moves are worked on top rope before the final performance.


I've been dying to use 'performance art' in this thread.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Apr 7, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
I think Tarbuster is right on. But I would also add that in the UK tradition seems to be something that is more universally viewed as being valuable and worth preserving. Hazel did that climb, which is probably beyond all the posters on this thread, in the style it had originally been done in, replacing when possible the pitons that had deteriorated.

Chances are in this country someone with a Hilti would have gone down there and properly bolted the thing from top to bottom to fix it up so that everyone from the gym could climb it and keep it from becoming a "museum piece." But she chose to repeat the challenge in its original form. How, in a sane lexicographic world, could that be anything other than traditional climbing?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 7, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
It's clear that trad means different things in different locals. I like that particular genre of trad. This is all becoming much more clear now. I hope the OP appreciates our hard work! I'm going to go explode again now. Maybe R AND I knew what is was saying after all! Maybe that was the UK edition of the digi-R&I. You have to admit that any kind if climbing is pretty sporty.

The main thing here is to stay 6 posts ahead of the
Old people... give it up (OT)
thread.
jpin

Trad climber
CA
Apr 7, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
How many times have you done a climb and used a pin scare for a finger hold? How many climbs have blot holes for finger holds?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
It's good we can see the beauty and booty in those things. I'm pretty good at it. It's a tradtional sense I have. There's nothing quite like the ring of a pin. Personally, I never though pin scars were all that ugly. They were sure unseamly though!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
Music to our ears Dan, won't be heard by many any more.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
What's that bird in Yosemite that sounds like somebody banging on a bong.....or were those bongs?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
Ah the sounds of Yosemite in the early 70's.....LSD, mescaline and peyote induced, nothing quite like them.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
RGold said:
How, in a sane lexicographic world, could that be anything other than traditional climbing?

Way to be cogent dude!
Now that's the way to parse it like a Philadelphia lawyer!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
The main thing here is to stay 6 posts ahead of the

Old people... give it up (OT)
thread.

My sentiment exactly.
d-35

climber
ut
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
[youtube=http://youtu.be/aQJT4_-kCQ4]

This thing looks pretty traditional.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
Ah the sounds of Yosemite in the early 70's.....LSD, mescaline and peyote induced, nothing quite like them.

From the sounds of it, Viagra makes things chime. I can still get up it though, so I'm holding off.

Cool video. I'm working on my endurance so I can do some of that stuff in my dreams.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:07am PT
If a lead is rehearsed, toproped, hangdogged, preinspected, cleaned on rap, has preplaced protection, rehearsed protection placements, or protection placed on aid...

It ain't trad, in my book anyway - a book written in the late 60's

Closer to performance art, as someone implied upthread.

Impressive, bold, risky - yeah

Traditional - no.


I dunno, is trad different than traditional? Maybe that explains all this BS...


So can anybody define "trad" in 25 words or less? I'll give you 50.

OK - 100, but that's it.

WTF IS trad climbing anyway?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:33am PT
It's real climbing where you carry all that crap on yer rack and in yer pack. It's real climbing where you don't have a topo, and look Ma - no Beta! It's real climbing were you have not talked to everyone under the sun about what's up there. Yer on yer own. That's trad.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:36am PT
Not bad...

Can you hangdog to work out the moves on a trad climb?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:39am PT
I suppose. You got to keep trying one way or another - that's trad. If all else fails, get the aid-slings out - that's trad. I'm going to explode again.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:49am PT
Let's talk style here, as in trad style. So if a leader resorts to hangdogging, he's still doing the route in traditional style? What happened to the tradition of lowering off the lead immediately after a fall and pulling the rope instead?

That was traditional before hangdogging was.

Isn't the older tradition more traditional than the newer tactic by definition of the word traditional?

A tactic which breaks tradition can't be employed in a traditional style ascent, can it?


McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Yeah, I'm just being flip. If you were on a 'real' climb though, like doing some first ascent in the back-country, you didn't lower down to the base of the pitch and start over. That would have been lunacy. You just kept trying from where you fell to or whatever. If you had to pull on gear though, you didn't lie to your friends and say you did it free.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 8, 2013 - 01:09am PT
So can anybody define "trad" in 25 words or less? I'll give you 50.

OK - 100, but that's it.

WTF IS trad climbing anyway?

It's the way Stannard and others of his generation established FAs back in the day.

1) That's only 15 words.

2) What do I win?

Curt
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 8, 2013 - 01:25am PT
Ok now we're getting somewhere.

And if I recall, jstan etal were pretty damn picky about exactly how those routes got done - how they were protected, how the moves were figured out - that nit picky stuff.




Resting on gear while freeclimbing? Not even considered. It was tabu amongst America's leading climbers, and only practiced by Europeans or desperate beginners.
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