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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 25, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
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Hi,
i'm looking for some beta about rapping salathe/freerider for water stashing and pitch inspection purposes.
how it's usually done, tricky pitches to be rapped, what to stash and how much (i.e. will other parties drink all of your water if you write to please leave your bottles half full?), etc...
thank you!
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
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what happened?
serious accident, shameful rescue, or other?
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
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is this a troll?
half troll probably.
on one side i'm a bit of a theorist and climbing geek. The kind that likes to read topos over and over.
on the other i should be in yosemite valley next autumn, with an excellent freeclimber who is highly interested in el cap but relies on me for ropework, tactics, logistics (his words).
i thought freerider is probably feasible as long little time is lost in queues and bad tactics and wondered if f*#king ground up ethics ad approaching the whole thing as a giant redpoint is a good idea.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Mar 25, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
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i'm looking for some beta about rapping salathe/freerider for water stashing and pitch inspection purposes.
Don't cheat yourself. Go do it ground up or don't bother.
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D-Rail
Trad climber
Calaveras
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Mar 25, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
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+1 for the above!
The Salathe Wall is a world class wall climb and free climb. Climb it from the bottom to the top just like the first ascentionists did. Better and more stylish for you, and way better for everyone else up there living their dream too.
D
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
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How long you expect to leave the water stashed?
3 weeks absolute max.
ideally just a few days.
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dikhed
climber
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Mar 25, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
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three weeks? full troll
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
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ok let's turn this into a real troll then! :D
i have a question for the ethical commission.
let's suppose that i (climber A) rap the whole route, checking every detail ans stashing water, bivy gear, etc.
a few days later i jumar below climber B who has no previous knowledge of the route (he climbs ground up).
i might give him some indications concerning the route finding, what gear is needed for each pitch, etc, even though i wouldn't help with actual climbing beta unless my purebreed climber falls.
climber B pulls off a remarkable free ascent over 3 days, without falls.
Is it a true ground up? Is it an onsight?
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TRo
climber
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Mar 25, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
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Nope
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Mar 25, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
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Not even an onsight, nor a pure ground up ascent.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 25, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
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It's called a Turkish Getup, and its a great afternoon snack with cloris leachman.
Who carez....
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
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Mar 25, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
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Lots of top climbers have to work the harder pitches to free that thing... don't let 'em get you.
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
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Lots of top climbers have to work the harder pitches to free that thing...
i know!
i.e. stephanie bodet, which for sure is not weak.
(i find it quite interesting that according to their blog her husband - who is even stronger- did not even only belayed. I wonder if this was planned in advance, i.e. they estimated that in order to be sure to succed, one of the two had to be the belay&haul slave)
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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I wouldn't really care what anyone else thinks of your ascent as long as you are happy with it's quality.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
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The secret is out: it no longer matters.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:12am PT
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Don't matter on style. Just take A LOT OF LOT OF LOT of pictures, and post up.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:13am PT
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has anyone onsighted the captain free? be the first!
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:38am PT
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ghisino
If you go to the Valley you'll meet the right people who'll answer all your questions regarding rapping salathe/freerider.
You'll get the right and good beta.
Here generally you'll only get .... oh never mind.
Good luck .....
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:15am PT
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will other parties drink all of your water ... A couple drops of yellow food coloring, and piss written on the bottles should do the trick.
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2013 - 08:35am PT
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I wouldn't really care what anyone else thinks of your ascent as long as you are happy with it's quality
i hope so!
personally speaking not bailing and putting myself and my partner in a position of having an enjoyable ascent with enough time to "wank" running laps on a few selected pitches would be absolutely brilliant.
now, i have good reasons to think that without "cheating" this is not gonna happen for me.
My probable partner is head and shoulders the best freeclimber of the two, in theory he has the numbers for a fast ground-up, and as soon as i'd feel that i'm slowing us down i'd jumar everything and haul.
(or, if he turns out to be sh#t at crack climbing, we could simply bail. Or i'd try to just make every pitch in the fastest possible mix of free and aid - but wait: why choosing freerider then?)
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Mar 26, 2013 - 09:47am PT
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Leader normally hauls to save time...and what's that about knott knowing if they can climb cracks? May want to figure that out first...just saying 12+ freerider is way different than 12+sport.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 26, 2013 - 10:48am PT
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Most people who climb Freerider in an all-free successful ascent have a dedicated jug monkey. Most stash (food, water, bivy gear) and don't really have to haul other than a small day pack, which the jug monkey can haul quickly while the leader rests and racks.
It's easy enough to rap the route, it's done regularly. Mostly, it is very straightforward. Two 70m cords is nice to have for rapping (use 70s if you have them instead of 60s). There is a poster here who created a very good rap topo, your best hope is that he turns up and is willing to provide a copy. Otherwise, like Werner said, show up in the valley and start asking, you'll get the lowdown.
In my experience, the general climbing population tends to think (erroneously, I would add) that good climbers just walk up and fire that route, swinging leads onsight while hauling normal bigwall kit. Not even close. Leo basically did (but without really hauling), maybe a couple others. But the bulk of ascents have included a lot of pre-inspection and rehearsal.
Good luck and have fun, it's a fantastic route.
has anyone onsighted the captain free No, but Yuji came pretty damn close. I think he one-falled El Nino, onsight. Mike Anderson did Freerider first go with no falls, but they had aided the salathe wall years prior, so not a "true" onsight. I think that candian dude who rope-soloed it only took a couple falls.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 26, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
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I wouldn't really care what anyone else thinks of your ascent as long as you are happy with it's quality.
ding ding ding...
I would second, don't be a nuisance to climbers who are trying to climb it ground-up, i.e. don't string fixed lines all over quality pitches if you can avoid it.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
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Is Freerider a sport climb now, nothing more than a "project" to hangdog endlessly? You know, Freerider is not exactly at the cutting edge of climbing these days. Perhaps one could climb it from the ground, by any means necessary, working the pitches as required, while taking the "extra stuff" you need, to stash, for your free climb of the route. In doing so you will quickly learn if you are even close to the standard required. It is quite distracting to others, and rather selfish, to leave ropes hanging from the top of the Salathe headwall, all the way down to the Spire, so one can practice pitches at their convenience. It does appear that some people, not really up to the necessary standard, go on the route anyway, because, like some wall style teams, they don't want to put forth the necessary effort to reach the level of expertise required. With today's standards, constantly rapping the route, to work and rework pitches, while a wonderful display of tenacity and determination, is about the weakest style one can employ... a kind of siege climbing, where some others have not found it necessary. If that is the only way one can do the route then perhaps they should wait until they are more competent.
However, this commentary is brought to you by one who never has done the route, whose climbing days are a distant memory, and who's climbing skills were, at best, quite mediocre... so take it for what it is worth to you... mandatory agreement is not required!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
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I might ask why, if one is rapping in from the top over several days, the ropes need to be fixed. Couldn't they just be left on top and fixed for the day?
I you're strong enough to climb the route, you're strong enough to pull up a few ropes at the end of the day.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
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they don't want to put forth the necessary effort to reach the level of expertise required
Did Steph not reach the level of expertise required? I mean, she was sending 5.13 cracks regularly and still worked it for months.
OP: I'd encourage you to read the chapter(s) in Steph's little book about her doing Freerider and the Salathe. She related talking to Tommy Caldwell beforehand and getting the lowdown on how these big wall free ascents are actually accomplished. As I said before, the "walk up and fire it, swinging leads onsight while hauling all your kit" approach almost NEVER happens. I don't care how strong and experienced you are.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
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Check out the Mason Earle interview on the Enormocast for some perspective on onsight sending big walls: Kalous and m-earle, two very good climbers, discussing the dream-vs.-reality of this proposition.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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When we were on the Salathé last June, two parties blitzed past us on consecutive days, both going for ground-up free ascents in a day.
Both parties were strong as hell: Mayan w/ friendly jug monkey, and Stanhope/Kennedy. Both turned back at the boulder problem.
Both were cool as hell, psyching us up for the HF and convincing us we weren't going to die.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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if he turns out to be sh#t at crack climbing, we could simply bail.
Might want to figure this out beforehand.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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If only there were some shorter crack climbs nearby! There must be something.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 26, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
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Check out the Mason Earle interview on the Enormocast for some perspective on onsight sending big walls: Kalous and m-earle, two very good climbers, discussing the dream-vs.-reality of this proposition.
I agree, I think the conversation of rising to the challenge needs to be had very seriously with yourself. As someone who works REALLY REALLY hard to get better at Rock Climbing and am working on my own goals, I would have to make sure that I had no other option than to rap in a few times to work it - absolutely it can be done with zero impact on others climbing, and if you feel that those key cruxes you'll only pull with work, I getcha go for it.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Mar 26, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
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Steph did the routes some time ago.... the standards are higher today and more people are climbing at higher levels. People are not taking months to do freerider these days, and yes, I would say that if Steph did it today, in the way she did it back then, she would not be ready for the climb, by today's standards. The first people to do things, like Steph, Tommy etc etc will use a different style than people repeating things done many, many times since then. Freerider is not in the league with EC climbs that now require extreme measures to ascend. It is the easiest way to free EC. Today, most upper level climbers do Freerider with a few runs at it, and not months of toil with endless going up and down fixed lines. By the very fact that one would have to used fixed lines, over long periods of time, is a clear indication that they are not ready for the climb. IMHO, that is. I am no expert, only an interested observer.
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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
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thanks to those who gave useful references!
as far as the other guy's climbing skills are concerned, if he performs up to par with his bouldering, highballing and grit-style trad abilities then i should humble up and just be the designated jug monkey in any case!
before the canyoning season (work) begins i plan to check his and my crack skills on granite climbs on this side of the atlantic such as those on this wall
or this
(irony: both walls are located in valleys whose climbing developement was deeply influenced by Yosemite mythology and aura, during the 70's and 80's. Several route and feature names are simply borrowed from the Yosemite Valley, sometimes translated, sometimes not!)
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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May 31, 2016 - 08:10am PT
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*
Asterisk, Capt'n or Skully asked. 'El Cap Pirates ' post is worthy as well.
BUMPAGE
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 31, 2016 - 08:19am PT
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What could possibly go wrong?
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WallMan
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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May 31, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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Back before Tommy and Beth freed the Nose, they rapped down early one morning and spent a good part of the day working the changing corners pitch. They were both super friendly and cool as they rapped by us. As the end of the day approached, they quickly fired off the pitches from the changing corners to the top. Watching Tommy lead the last two pitches of the Nose, the short 10c trad pitch and then the bolt ladder, was very cool. I think he placed 1, maybe 2, cams on the trad pitch and then when he got to the bolts, he left a draw with the roped clipped into it on the first bolt and then just used draws on bolts for hand holds, quickly going from bolt to bolt, maybe only leaving a draw in for protection every 6 bolts or so. Total time for him to lead both pitches maybe 2 or 3 minutes.
If Tommy and Beth can rehearse pitches on the captain, I think your friend should be able to as well. I agree with the comment about not littering the captain with fixed lines. Would totally not be fun or cool to have to climb over someones fixed lines.
Climb On. Wally
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Back to the front page to address the new posting about this.
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| Messages 1 - 39 of total 39 in this topic |
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