Harsh Reality Of War

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 41 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
Let me correct you, Ron. The Nazis were toast by the time we got involved in Europe. The Red Army beat the Germans, not us. Not that there wasn't incredibly bitter fighting in the west, but it was a done deal before D-Day.

Not exactly.... The US industry equipped the Soviet U and without that equipment the Germans would have been able to overrun Moscow. Ending that part of the war.

US shipping and the Lend Lease to Great Britian saved them from defeat in 40 and 41.

What really won the war was our Industrial might, none of the axis powers could even dream of equaling us,in that reguard.

Add to that the sacrafices of countless brave Americans.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
Thanks John. Some of us have heard, but don't know enough.

We have heard of Leningrad and Stalingrad however.

Leningrad, over 1 million Red Army losses. 650,000 civilians.

Stalingrad, almost 1.2 million Red Army losses.

All this was while the USA suffered "only" 291,000 combat deaths in WWII TOTAL.

So yeah, any claim that we saved the world by ourselves there is a bit off....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
Never said by ourselves, but do stand by the fact it was the USA that made THE difference.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
I'll jump for that one Ron, just because I love the American military, just because I used to resemble that remark.

HA!

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 21, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
You know who made one of the biggest differences?

The Polish AK underground and the early Polish computer scientists. It was really they who broke the Enigma code and smuggled the secrets and parts of the V2 rocket to England.
Breaking the Enigma code was crucial. That information was forwarded to the Soviets and played a huge role in their battlefield tactics and successes. Give some credit to the Poles. And that's no joke.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 21, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
It’s always about the Interests that is underneath or below that one wants to go to war. Has been and will always be.

In Southeast Asia it is all about the indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and adjacent waters that have oil that China, Japan, and Viet Nam argue about.

Buy property or a house in Los Angeles area or in the San Fernando Valley: it stipulates you do not own the rights and must sign off and do you get any compensation for the minerals underneath it. It was oil in the 50”s but mostly gone but still a few barrels coming up.

Uncle Bush took the football but ran the [wrong] other way to the field gold hoping that we would have a source of oil for years to come and it would be cheap. Now he admits his Intelligence was wrong about Weapons of Mass Destruction the reason or was it? President Cheney thought and still thinks different. He still has contracts with other fellow whores that bring oil here. Why would you topple a government that has no resources? Why send thousands of troops and spend years to find one man that started 911?

As for Afghanistan try to tell this to the Taliban and all the money they could receive from their minerals. Imagine they could have access to new malls with Mac Donald’s and Starbucks, Gucci shoes but they just don’t get it [Intellectually]. Just plundering from other countries with the US being on the list.

The Chinese set up shop years back but got out since it was not worth the danger but now signed new agreements for some of the minerals especially for the Lithium. Does batteries come to mind.

Look at Africa and the workers that die daily under inhumane conditions to mine the minerals [Gold] for their corrupted bosses who control their nations.

Harsh reality in this war is losing all of our men and women not for freedom but for corruption which the US understands well. I refrain or change the word Corruption on our part: it is called negotiation.

Not a war on terrorism but ”a resource war”.

Profits that only the rich see and the poor that suffer or see no better life or share and if they complain or protest end up dead or in prisons.

Ah! And yes of course we must not forget the poppy fields and that entire heroin.

*note that is not listed below.

Credit: lostinshanghai
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Mar 21, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Some talking head on CNN the other day said that more US soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan have died from suicide than killed over there in combat. I don't know if that is true, but it is sure sad and speaks volumes about how we treat our veterans.

It is true, and sad.

Sad but true there's no other way to put it.

And, for what???
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
Not exactly.... The US industry equipped the Soviet U and without that equipment the Germans would have been able to overrun Moscow. Ending that part of the war.

It wasn't US industry that built 57,000 T-34s. Wasn't Boeing that built 17,000 YAK-9s and 36,000 Shturmoviks. Better think again.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
That's a very eloquent finger.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
All three of you are wrong the biggest factor in the defeat of the Nazis was that Hitler was his own worst enemy. He chased off or killed the jewish scientists that could have given him the bomb, and then he incessantly interfered with his highly competent generals.

If he had acknowledged his 1/4 jewish heritage and then just kept to making speeches (something he excelled at) we would all be speaking german.
Crackslayer

Trad climber
Eldo
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Mar 22, 2013 - 02:07am PT
The Soviets outproduced the Germans almost 5 to 1 in tanks. After Kursk in July 1943, the Russians would have won WWII and occupied Eastern Europe no matter how many Studebaker trucks we sent them in 1944. The trucks did matter of course because they gave the Russians greater mobility to move their troops to areas of weakness in the German lines. We also sent the Russians tons of rubber boots that kept their feet warm and dry while the leather German jackboots radiated heat down into the ground. Interesting little know fact, but the Ivans never paid us back for lend lease until after the collapse of the Soviet Union, sometime in 1992. However, the Russians certainly paid the price in blood of winning the Great Patriotic War as Joseph Stalin called it. 35 million? 40 million dead? They keep revising the figures ever upward. Most by starvation, the hard way. What did we lose in both the ETO and the Pacific? Around 400,000 KIAs. In fact if we hadn't landed in Normandy (after dragging our feet for 2 years) those Russian T34 would have probably reached the Bay of Biscay on the Atlantic Coast in June 1945. In any event, Russian industrial production was overwhelming. They manufactured almost 100,000 T34s and JS2s and we made about 49,000 Shermans (which the Ivans thought were useless).

We sure did kick the heck out of the Japanese though. That's where Admiral King and others thought we should have placed out primary emphasis, not in ETO. However, Churchill and Roosevelt had already decided on a Germany first policy when they signed the Atlantic Charter. Needless to say General MacArthur and Admiral Nimitz did not agree.

While the Nazis and Soviets kicked the heck out of each other for 4 long years, we kicked back on our safe secure continent and achieved 100% employment. WWII did make the US the richest country on earth and pulled us out of the Great Depression. I guess you might say that's how we won WWII. All the other great powers were completely exhausted.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 02:34am PT
2. Without the Western allies Hitler would have been able to transfer the bulk of his mechanized and better units to the eastern front instead of tying them down in France. awaiting the allied invasion. 3. American trucks and Construction equipment (leased to Russia) helped move those tank factories deep into Russia during 1941-1942 before the Germans could capture them. American Tanks (Shermans and Grants),half tracks, Artillery, Ammunition, and spare parts leased to the Russians helped defend those factories until the Russians could get their factories up and running. We shipped Shermans to Russia while our forces were still using Grants in Africa.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Mar 22, 2013 - 04:03am PT
The Studebaker trucks did not start arriving in Russia in sufficient numbers to augment society operational mobility until 1943. They had to be brought in by convoy to Murmansk and with those Condor bombers lurking overhead this voyage was not a pleasure cruise. In 1941-42, the Russian army essentially faced the Nazis all on their lonesome. The Germans were not tied down in France; it was an R&R vacation retreat. Over 20,000 babies were born to French women out of wedlock with German soldiers stationed in France. When the Canadian tried to land on the French coast during the summer of 1942, they got the sh#t kicked out of them. 4000 casualties. Of the approximately 4 million German soldiers killed in action in WWII over 3/4 died on the Ost Front. Not in Normandy, not in Italy, not during the Battle of the Bulge. The Allied landing in Normandy in June 1944 meant that the Germans could not win the war, but was not a war winner in and of itself. The Ivans won WWII, not the Amis (but we sure as heck did make a lot of money off it).
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 22, 2013 - 08:35am PT
The harsh reality of war is that it didn't work in Iraq and isn't working in Afganistan.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Mar 22, 2013 - 08:44am PT
So what is the official score card for WWII, sports and war fans???

Who won the war? I mean, its f*#king important, right?????

DMT
WTF

climber
Mar 22, 2013 - 09:33am PT
Oh war works boys you just need to take all the f*#king suits in Washington,out of the picture and let the men in uniform run the show.

The war would be over but the suits won't let the uniforms use the tools they need to use to end the war.

Remember it took two atomic blast to get the Japanese to understand we mean business.




patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 22, 2013 - 09:41am PT
So you want to nuke Afganistan?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 22, 2013 - 09:43am PT
All three of you are wrong the biggest factor in the defeat of the Nazis [...]

Ultimately, there is only one factor that determined the outcome of WWII:

Industrial Capacity

The US had more of it than Germany and Japan combined, and it was on another continent, untouchable.

Steel, aluminum, ships, planes, tanks ... WWII was all about stuff.

Even the development of the A-Bomb was a massive industrial endeavor. The production of uranium for just one bomb required the largest industrial site on earth at the time.

A factory with 12,000 workers. And none of them knew what they were making:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-25


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