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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 5, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
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In a nutshell here's the choices one had in 1974:
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steve shea
climber
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Yup, that's about right. We could get RD's in CO. also
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JayMark
Social climber
Oxnard, CA
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What brand is that shoe on the top of the stack there?
JEM
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Kronhofer's possibly.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Sure look like Kronhofers. Here they are on Rock 2 at Stonet Point.
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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That is one cool shot of all the toe - destroyers of the era. My EB's got to become Asolo Skywalkers( resoled 4 times and my all time favorite for comfy) and then Fire Cats (POS) Thanks for the share !!!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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What's on the bottom?
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Don I had them all and may have bought a pair or two from you, those PA's were dangerously like roller skates! EB's saved the day and kept me from reverting back to my beginnings, the klutteshoe or however you spell it..
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Why no Zillertals? Maybe earlier, however. Maybe I can dig up a picture.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Don...Were you ever inside Imelda Marcos closet....? RJ
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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EB's , Man that was the sh#t. I still think climbing the dime edges on White Lightning in Squish was easier in EB's.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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This is what I see in Lauria's photo:
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Cosmiccccc..........But monsieur, that is the great Coonyard!
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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I bought my first pair of EB's from England in 75. I was living in Germany and they hadn't heard of them there yet. There was an ad in Mountain magazine from a shop who if you traced an outline of your foot on a piece of paper and sent it to them with 20 bucks, they'd ship you a pair they thought was right for your foot. I think the only time those shoes ever felt good was at the end of their life when they were completely blown out.
Edit: Twistedcrank, I got them a week or so before taking this shot.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Those EBs look quite fresh.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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RD's at work, winter, Gunks, mid-sixties.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Don, Isn't that a Larry Reynolds photo that became a WestRidge ad with the caption something like, "Kronhofers-Still on top!"
By then, Zillertals were not sold much tho some lads still had them around. Where's that pic of Russ' old pair? I still have a pair of both Zillertals and Kronhofers which would be suitable for wearing to this day.
Klettershue is the German translation of "climbing shoes" and both Zillertals and Kronhofers were made in Austria, so the word in English became "klettershoe."
Seems like RR preferred Cortina Spiders for many years tho he may (or may not) have switched to his own brand after their appearance. The classic pic of RR by Glen Denny shows RR wearing his RR shoes. What did he wear on the FA of Tis-sa-ak in 1969?
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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RR is wearing Robbins Boots (so comfortable you can wear them to work)
in that photo, Boo.
There is a shot of him wearing Spiders in Basic Rockcraft, the picture
demonstrating the heel-toe jam. The Spiders had thicker midsoles than
Cortinas, as well as extra leather at the heel cup.
In most pictures it would probably be hard to tell the difference between
Cortinas and Zillertals.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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My first shoes in '73 were Pivetta Red Spiders. Anyone remember them? Switched to EB's after about 6 months and that was that. Until Gallencamp Scats came along...
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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My first pair of boots were bought in 1977 so I'm guessing they'd been around for a few years before then. They were a pair of Hawkins with blue suede uppers.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Don,
Thanks for the great picture. I first climbed in an old pair of Zillertols (similar to Kronhoffers), then RR's, PA's and Bill Dolt Blue Boots (Chris Vandever thought they were sold by Ellis Brigham as "Gollies"), and EB's, so your picture captures my footwear evolution quite well. I kept using PA's bouldering when I moved from Berkeley to LA, though, because the sandstone at Stoney Point wore the EB's too quickly.
I had a pair of Asolo Canyons later in the 1970's, that I thought were the successor to "Shoe-n-ards," but I never cared for them.
John
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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EB's were a game changer. I think it was John Morton who came in the UCHC office in Eshleman Hall on a Monday to report that if you slipped on Arches Terrace you'd come to a stop wearing them. Had to get a pair and try it out! Sure enough, jumping backwards, releasing, and coming back down you'd stop dead.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Other brands...
Solda's (A Gunks thing...)
???
RR's (Thanks to T Hocking)
Yellow and Black ???
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Storer, when were you at Berkeley? As a four-year denizen of the Eschelman Hall basement (not to mention, a regular user of the space between the pillars on the outside for off-width practice), I don't remember widespread use of EB's in Berkeley until about 1972, but I do remember running across them in the late 1960's, and wishing I had a pair. I think Bill Dolt was selling them for around $20.00.
John
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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In the sixties, I was ordering my RD's direct from France. $15 including shipping and duty. And the leather on RD uppers was thick!
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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They're all wearing socks. Some pulled up to the knees, lederhosen style. That's before my time.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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They're all wearing socks. Some pulled up to the knees, lederhosen style. That's before my time.
From a land before time: RD's and two pair of socks, one pair knee socks, for bouldering yet:
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Always climbed in kronhoffers... until at the base of moby dick in yos I realized I'd left my shoes out of the pack and in order to do the climb my partner lowered his ebs down, I slipped them on and was off. What an eye opener that was. Those shoes were a game changer. Especially on face like the apron. Try any apron face climb in kronhoffers and you'll see what I mean... you have to work twice as hard to get anywhere. Don't think there's any doubt as to how much equipment has contributed to what climbing is today.
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Dennis Hennek
climber
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Hey McHale, thanks for the recognition of Rock 2
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Fascinating history thread!
Did the RD shoe appear in red and blue also? I remember dad having a blue leather pair with red trim with "Rene Desmaison" inscribed in the ankle area. (not the blue leather Royal Robbins shoe with lug soles) ??
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steve shea
climber
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EBs just happen to fit my feet really well. I usally bought them fit with bare feet.I would cram my feet in with a Wigwam type ragg sock and step into hot water for a full soaking and wear till almost dry. There was just enough stretch to result in a perfect almost pain free fit. As they stretched more with use eventually I could get the ragg on all the time, they were awesome for cracks. When newer and tight, great for face. I usually had quite a few pairs in rotation. They wore out fast on me. Desmaison had his name on several types. I saw many strange boots when living in France. Typically the RD referred to in the states were the stiff brown ones but there were others. We actually imported our first EBs from Ellis Brigham in the UK early 70's. Brigham had several shops in the UK and gave us a great deal on 20pr. Just shipped them airfreight no customs. I don't know why. Anyone ever climb in Lephoque's (sp)? I bought a pair from Teton Mountaineering in the late 60's. Used them for one resoling and several flaps. They had rubber flaps covering the laces. They climbed great looked funky. I donated them back to TM for their little alpine display. They are hanging in the store now, same pair.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Thanks, Steve...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I had a pair of La Phoques that I bought at Ski Hut in Berkeley in 1969 for $24.00, and kept until the LA smog rotted away the rubber cover ten years later. They were excellent mountaineering boots, provided you didn't try to hike too far in them (that fiberglass midsole wasn't made for flexion) and even worked OK at Pinnacles.
My biggest fear was that someone who knew French would pronounce their name correctly. I also lusted after the LeRoux "John Harlin" model, but finances limited me.
John
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steve shea
climber
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You are welcome Jennie! RGold that's the one. At the time I also got a pair of Carman Supergaitors. TM had them before Chouinard got hold of them. TM had the goods. One of the best shops in the US bitd.
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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John: I was at Berkeley '62 - '66 so we probably didn't overlap then. I was back in California say '75 - '78. Could I be wrong about when EB's became available? Could be....Do you remember the climb of the pillar in Faculty Glade, or the night ascents of the chimney between the Greek Theatre columns with the descent down the rickety ladder, or those "pinnacles" on the face of the Campanile? Long ago so my mind fails me.......I was watching Cal Bears hoops the other night on TV and they toured those old haunts......cool.....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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The West Ridge ad showing the classic after shot.
Love 'em to death with hint of knicker too.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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EBs were indeed far better than the (for me, more comfortable) alternatives. But whatever last they were built on didn't have my feet in mind.
I, too, crammed bare feet into them and settled into the pain. One pair ultra-tight for edging and jamming, and one pair slightly less tortuous for smearing.
I never got the ingrown toenail effect, but after a few years of wearing tight EBs so much, I developed a really entrenched case of fungal nails on most of my toes. Something about "dark, hot, moist environments" being really good to "grow your own." And hours in those things certainly qualified. I had the fungal nails for decades until some doc prescribed an anti-fungal pill that could possibly destroy my liver.
Over the course of each climbing day, the medieval torture-devices would get really damp, almost wet from sweat, which would make them almost imperceptibly more comfortable. It was always a neck-and-neck race to the finish line whether increasing swelling would win over the slight dampness-induced stretch.
And the "finish line" always carried with it portents of what the next day would bring: yet again "sliding" not-fully-recovered feet into the things dry. So it was almost regrettable to take them off, knowing what the next day had in store.
The memories... the discomfort/pain/damage was what "made" a "hard man."
And the aroma. I can recall it "afresh" even now as though I'm actually smelling it again, so etched into my brain cells it is. By day's end, the "environment" was literally breeding new life-forms, and these had to be exposed to light and fresh air occasionally to snuff them out before they developed opposable thumbs and perhaps even consciousness. In death, however, they exacted terrible revenge.
No amount of mental-bracing was preparation enough for the searing waves of deadly toxic fumes that would smite me to my knees as the first shoe came off. Hideous groans and cries filled the air along with the fumes.
Many of the groans and cries were mine.
People in a wide radius were also smitten. Some fled, their mournful cries fading into the distance. Others threw hard or sharp objects, intending, I believe, to drive the "blast radius" far from them.
Much of the physical damage I endured from climbing during those years was from injuries sustained from these thrown objects, as I was invariably unable to do little more than slowly roll, crawl, or knee-hop away, unable as I was to get enough fresh air to clear my head sufficiently to stand and run.
Even fresh socks and shoes for the drive home couldn't keep the car from slowly filling with the fumes emanating through the layers, hell bent as they were on making my head spin, resulting in a mental condition not unlike DUI. And the stupefying effects so eroded judgment that it often was beyond me to simply roll down the windows.
Worse, I confess that within 20 minutes or so of driving, the odor so destroyed even normal aesthetic judgment that I came to almost enjoy it... something like scratching your armpit and then smelling your fingers. And only during the eventual shower at home did my head clear enough that I could objectively assess with fascinated horror the liking of it.
The pain, ruined nails, risk of liver failure, actual brain damage, and deep-seated psychological after-effects. Ahh... the good old days! EBs rocked!
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steve shea
climber
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Hey, Madbolter that was hilarious. We used tincture to offset the odor. A couple off good inhales on the tincture bottle would take the edge off the smell you so eloquently describe.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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I had 3 from the first picture
PAs were my first
EBs
RRs
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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madbolter, I love a good chuckle with my first cuppa, even if it is also
tinged with ruefullness. I never thought about how my toe fungus first
started in '77 but now, thanks to you, it all becomes clear, so to speak.
I am still fighting it to the extent that I spent 3 days in hospital last
August when the fungus enlisted help from some no few bacterial allies.
My doc assured me The Pill's threat to the liver is not that bad and worth
the risk. I am also here to report that my three month course did not
cure it.
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Roots
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Just bought my first pair of EBs last week...LOL! Couldn't believe it when I opened the box - Brand new, never used! Almost perfect condition for being so old.
Fun stuff, you guys are climbing routes in those pictures I couldn't even climb today with modern footware.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Edit: That's the 2nd resole on those RR's, courtesy of Mr. Komito in 1973
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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My first shoes were Blue suedes
My first friction shoe:
The friction RR's
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Keith Leaman
Trad climber
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From Blakey's "Facebook Vintage '80s" thread. Some of these bootmakers (like Scarpa, Morotto, Brixia) must have been producing in the '70s. It would be interesting to see more of what the rest of the world-outside the US- was climbing in at the time-like Carlos' Paragots upthread. Note the colored chalk too.
Those posters/ads are all familiar, as are all the shoes in the first photo. Larry Reynolds was developing huge photos in a bathtub then as I recall. I liked the stiffness of RDs for alpine type climbs in the Zirkel Wilderness where snow was frequently found in summer. Swami, wool socks, rack of homemade and commercial nuts, Eiger ovals, and no chalk bag. Fun stuff.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Thanks, Storer. When I saw your reference to John Morton, I figured you were predating me. I remember the buildering projects you mentioned, but we also used the expansion cracks at Memorial Stadium for hand jamming, and rigged a Tyrolean Travers from Eschelman Hall to the Student Union.
My favorite buildering exploit, though, was done by two others on a Sunday night in May of 1970: They managed to put a Mickey Mouse body and hands on the clock on the south side of the Campanile.
The method was a combination of clever climbing and Cal Tech lock-picking. After cutting the power to the Campanile floodlights, picking a lock into a storeroom and waiting until dark, after the elevator rides for the public ended, they got to the viewing deck, jammed the flared crack between the pillars and the anti-suicide glass, rappelled down the side and placed the Mickey Mouse on with latex paint as an adhesive (so water would remove it).
The next Monday at noon, the carillon played the mickey Mouse Club theme song.
Ah, the good old days.
John
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carlos gallego
Ice climber
Spain
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In the "made in Spain" market... the first company to use sticky rubber (goma cocida) was CALMA (1980)... with models "Adherencia", "Precisión" and "Lince".
These climbing shoes were distributed in USA by Climb High.
Months later... BOREAL, with much better marketing style, produced the "Fire" and became number one.
The other spanish manufacturer in those years was KAMET.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Remember the first thing you did with EB's was to sew leather patches on the sides?
Also if the soles didn't last 3 years you felt ripped off?
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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The UCHC Campanile "decoration" goes back to the '50's, I think. I was part of the '65 (pretty sure) Easter endeavor. The plan was to put a 10' tall balloon-filled cloth bunny on the topmost spike. We entered as any tourist would during normal hours and hid inside. After the attendant left for the day we let our compatriots in and we all went up to the top floor. There we endlessly blew up many balloons and stuffed them into the rabbit. The leader slinged one of those corner spikes for pro and climbed to the top, hauled up the bunny, and positioned it on the top spike. We all exited down the stairs and out to await daylight to see our prized Easter bunny.
Unfortunately, the wind came up and blew all the balloons to one side. It was lots of fun listening to observers guess what it was; a pregnant woman, a trash bag,.....? Even more interesting to us was watching the professional steeplejacks rigging the top and removing the "thing" taking hours to do it. It must have cost U.C. much more than my tuition which was $112 per semester, as I recall.
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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I still have My Fire Cats with very low mileage cuz they just would not stick on granite . They , um, "sucked" and we got herded into the "Fire" marketing campaign and immediately resoled our Skywalkers with 5.10 resole rubber.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Well-patched EB's...
...and a failure to fully embrace clean climbing (nuts plus three pitons, short-thin, short-medium, and short-thick).
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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A fortune hanging around your neck in that cool pic !!!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Incredible photos and memory flash backs.
I wish I would have kept my fires. Those suckers fit perfect and being a 5.9 dweeb at the time were such a step ahead from EBs. I recall Duane Raleigh coming into my shop in Norman,OK and rubbing the soles together to warm them up and then pasting them together.
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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Yes indeed johntp original Fires were astounding and I burned thru 2 pair. Cats did not fair so well as we were told (after the fact that the factory had some manky rubber that was in use at the time.)
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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1959: Zillertals, in the wilds of the Little Rockies, MT
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richross
Trad climber
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Some more EB's action!
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Some I've pulled from the Climbing in the 80s Facebook pages
Steve
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Steve,
Those Dolt-labeled shoes were the Bill Dolt Blue Boots to which I referred in my earlier post. I used a pair during the summer of 1971, but they kept stretching, so I switched back to my tried-and-true PA's. I still don't know of a shoe that beats PA's for edging.
I wish I would have kept my fires. Those suckers fit perfect and being a 5.9 dweeb at the time were such a step ahead from EBs. I recall Duane Raleigh coming into my shop in Norman,OK and rubbing the soles together to warm them up and then pasting them together.
Fortunately, I hung on to mine, and had them re-soled with C4. They're currently my favorite for OW, and probably my favorite right now for longer routes, too.
John
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Yep, a new pair of EBs were a good edging boot. We learned a trick from Martin Boysen, to recycle old outer edges, cutting out the worn section and superglueing in a new edge.
Worked quite well, though the chunk could pull out at just the wrong moment!
Steve
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Before I got a swami belt it was a bowline on a coil,
Who here done that?
There were always plenty of reasons to not fall. I had the Sierra Club belay book that said 'the leader must not fall' - that was from the days of hemp I think - hemp was before my time! Was that the title? I do not remember.
Since I am from swami only days, I don't mind using just a swami for easier things. I still use a Forrest system of separate leg loops. If I buy a harness that does not separate, I modify it. Anyone know the Baboon Hang where you can quickly turn a long runner into a seat harness - if you are still conscious!?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Who here done that?
With a natural fiber rope.
;>)
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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You guys are Hardcore . My Troll Whillans was "da bomb" . 2 inch swamis sucked ( my guts payed the price; as well as any surviving ribs. This thread is morphing into "somethun outta control".
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Before I got a swami belt it was a bowline on a coil,
Who here done that?
On goldline. Not at all pretty after a fall!
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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Yes Randisi, I remember climber artwork on their EB's. You are right and I do wish I would have captured some of that with my camera. This might just become unto itself as a subject of historic import. Who knows !!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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One thing that's been forgotten is that people used to personalize their EBs by drawing on them with felt tip markers.
I used to personalize my body that way too.
Oh, wait, I'm confusing "felt tip marker" with the whole thread-wrapped-needle tattoo bit.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Here's a shot of the East Butt of Middle with Whillan's harness and chinese boots from army surplus. They were about as secure as climbing with hockey pucks on your feet. Vintage mid to late 70's. lj
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Before I got a swami belt it was a bowline on a coil,
Who here done that?
Tad
Slowly raises his hand.
With goldline too.
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Bowline on a coil gave rise to the folkore about the fellow who fell at the Gunks and his bowline came untied (as they are wont to do, eh) and he spun off the rope like a top. Story went he augered into the ground so far...that all his buddies bought ball-busting Whillans.
The guy that taught me to tie into a rope climbed in these.
John Harlin II taught him to climb while he was at a rich kid school in Leysin. I learned in my hiking boots to 'hang a lug' on a crystal whilst slab climbing in Texas. Soon be the blue suede shoes. Not that they helped with the slabs but, boy, were they stylin.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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This thread is morphing into "somethun outta control".
The Cortina on the bottom of the shoe pile looks like it has some epoxy on it. We used to shore up the leather with epoxy to keep them from wearing out. Seems like I may have done that to Kronnies to.
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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That shoe looks like he should have been pacing laps at the local high school. Incredible what you climbed in ; if you laced a pair of those on , I commend you.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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I remember those Adidas leather 'dress' track shoes. I never had any but I sure remember them.
The Corinas were not bad at all. Like any shoe - you wore them tight. The ones in the pick look a bit beat. When they were new, you edged. When they wore down you smeared. They were good training for what came next. It was never really about the shoes. I skipped the whole EB phase with Robbins boots and then started using PAs and RDs and on and on! Kamps did amazing things with Cortinas. Can't remember Shoenards - never had any - may have tried then on but maybe they didn't have them in Idaho at the time.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Almost ninety posts and no love for the Fabiano Black Beauty!?!
Pure unbridled stiffness.
When I had a chance to climb with Fritz Wiessner back in high school he was wearing a pair along with an Edelrid woven rope chest harness craging around Tucson! Or were those Hanwags...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Shounards came out after PA's and even EB's, I think. My buddy bought PA's and I bought Shoenards as our first shoes in 77 or so. Shoenards sucked at anything but mixed aid/easy free.
It seemed like forever at the time, but when Fire's came out, they had several years where they were THE shoe.
I found an old titanium ice screw when scrounging around today. BITD, the eastern block climbers were behind the Iron Curtain. I guess there was a good black market, because some of them were making ice screws out of titanium. The workmanship is top notch, done on a lathe, and the thing weighs about two ounces. I traded for it in Europe and hung onto it. When they got permission to go climbing, they would bring this kind of stuff over and trade for money because they had little money.
It really is amazing quality. You could tell that somebody knew what they were making, and the spirals are precision cut on a lathe.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Shoeinards appeared in the UK in 77, they worked well on the FAs of some of our crimpy/edgy sandstone routes. Some of which still get high numbers....
In fact a lot of the outcrop routes here, done in EBs and the like, still get high numbers and aren't done that often.
They require a good head, more than good feet I guess ;-)
Steve
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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What about Black Beauty's?
Like the blue RR's only stiffer, blacker and more beautiful!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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What a great thread! Sorry I wasn't around earlier to contribute this October 1972 Galibier Ad from Off Belay Magazine.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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EB's with customized leather upper
EB's in action
New RR's
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carlos gallego
Ice climber
Spain
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Mar 10, 2013 - 07:45am PT
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... years before than I discovered the "Paragot and EB"... I used the "supercalcarea" boots... rigid and paintful...
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richross
Trad climber
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Mar 15, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
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More EB's!
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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Mar 16, 2013 - 12:15am PT
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For some reason EB's still look so , so cool! Must be the blue and natural white . Love and Rockets !!!
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docsavage
Trad climber
Albuquerque, NM
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Mar 18, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
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The bare foot now, that was something. Throw a couple leather spats on it & you're good to go for Dresden ( ... or maybe that was later, around '76-'78 ish).
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Kironn Kid
Trad climber
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Mar 18, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
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I actually still have my original EB's from that period. I'll have to post a snap of them.
EB's on the left. Wore them up Half Dome.
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Abissi
Trad climber
MI
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Mar 18, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
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I used to wear a pair of Galibier Black Beautys. Full length steel shank Which made them really cold to wear in the middle of Winter) full umber rans and a Vibram sole. I traded mine in for a down payment of a 67 Plymouth Belvedere from a friend
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geiger
Trad climber
Doylestown pa
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Mar 18, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
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We quickly learned to put a leather wrap around the upper of the EB's as well as a haul loop on the back.
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SammO
Social climber
Ohio
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Mar 18, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
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I worked for Neptune at his first shop, circa 1974-5, then 1980 did the Boulder Bootworks w/ Scott Johnston in a tiny hole behind a sports bar and
King Soopers; many memories of the shoe trade, tho' only a fraction of Komito's history. Did a replacement rubber flaps on Lefoux Boots, a real
bitch; broke scores of needles trying to stitch thru the nylon midsoles of Choonards/aka Vasque Ascenders - the stiffest rock shoe-boot ever made. Kevin Donald I recall saying how he was standing nonchalantly on a thin faceclimb in Eldorado when his foot dropped an inch and scared him - he'd been standing on some invisible nothing an inch above the hold he thought he was standing on all along!
I bought my first rock shoes from Ski Hut, mail order, about 1969, and amazingly they fit- Voyager fake kronhofers that were actually far better than the German originals by virtue of a stiffer midsole that gave a better edging shoe.
EBs were a superior shoe for all-around use mostly because the rubber was stickier - Galibiers and others had astonishingly hard, brittle soles that broke off in chunks, sort of like old superball rubber. The RD was ridiculously overbuilt, with actual fullgrain leather outers, smooth side in against your foot. The EB peculiarity was the thin canvas upper actually was a laminate with a thin rubber layer which made the shoe upper totally unbreathable, if not entirely waterproof. This certainly aided in the heat and sweat build-up which caused the notorious stench and inner cardboard rot.
I had a working fan system that drew air down thru the gluing table top to keep the brain damage to a minimum, and one day I knew instantly that
somebody had come in, because I was hit by an overpowering stench - the guy had EBs that had a few chunks of rotten cardboard left inside the soggy shoes - against every plea, I kicked him out with dead skunk shoes in hand.
The sidepanel biz was a real cottage industry, essential to crack-climbing durability, but also easy to customize with colors and designs.
Original Fires were strangely wonderful in even thin cracks, because the solid rubber rand box toe gave great protection when torqueing toes, and the substantial midsole made handcracks almost comfortable! You had to "smedge" on thin holds, which created the unique worn hole under the big toe, before the actual sole edge itself wore down.
My own best edging shoes were the original Megas, the first odd toe-down designs that also featured a weird space beneath one's heel- you could put
a marble in your heel, and not feel it while climbing! Only trouble was it took 6 months to break them in. After that, I could edge on nickels,
without strain. Rubber was both sticky (nowhere near Fires, tho) yet hard enough to not distort off small edges.
Patrick Edlinger's Dolomite shoes were IMO really mediocre, stiff foresole but slippery rubber jobs that made his Snowbird win even more
impressive.
5.10 rubber eventually surpassed the earlier Boreal and Sportivas for stickshion, but Vibram and others have caught up, and differences are negligible. Shoe quality of 5.10 has generally been awfully poor, so how good does original rubber have to be to offset bad fit, etc? I worry about the future availability of resoling sheet rubber now that Adidas owns the company; some MBA genius will surely decide they can make more money by just selling new shoes, without recognizing how cheap halfsoles have become integral to affordable footwear. Maybe Chuck kept his aftermarket options open, and can still sell rubber outside the 5.10 corporate shell? That would be really shrewd of him.
I hate the current extreme incurved downtoed shapes, and suspect many people with pronation issues are improperly served by them- straighter
lasts are what runners who pronate need, and climbers should be no different.
Last, of course, Mr. Gill's photo circa 1959 isn't fair, because we all remember how every shot of him makes it look like his feet are on holds, when the reality is he's always entirely suspended by his fingertips alone - especially true with RDs!
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Don'tKnowHim
Social climber
California
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Mar 18, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
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As to the original picture of this posting, the shoe on the top that looks like a hiking boot is a "kletterschuh." A few people back in the day used it for general scrambling, sometimes as a cheap "aid" or approach shoe.
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jabbas
Trad climber
phx AZ
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Mar 18, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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Thanks SammO for a little if ever looked into art of reviving the climbing shoe. Sending of our shoes to be resoled had a certain "dark magic" feeling . Enter 5.10 rubber and we felt like we could make new shoes outta thin air - ha ha . It is way tougher than the little page of ' structions made it out to be. A way cool thread -- Thanks .
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Redwood
Gym climber
West Sacramento CA
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Mar 18, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
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PAs: I still have mine. Could not bear to part with them. I remember all those others, too. At one time, Cortinas were de rigeur at Stony Point. Robbins Boots: I saw a British climber lead Coonyard Pinnacle in Robbins Boots.
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Freecloud
climber
California
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Mar 19, 2013 - 01:39am PT
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What about Fire's? (fee-rays)? Weren't they around during the same time? Can't remember what I had first.
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Kironn Kid
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2013 - 09:52am PT
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No. The Fire's came much later. It was because of Matt Cox, Largo and Bachar that I went with the original EB's. I wore them so tight, that they killed the nail bed on my big toes. Decades later, my large toe-nails still grow out very thick and wavy. Necessitating that I remove them about once a year.. Afet the EB's, I went to the original La Sportva (Purple-yellow model)shoes.
Harness? We learned and climbed in Swami belts. Those were the days...
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qigongclimber
climber
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Mar 20, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
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RDs were around at least as early as 1972 because that's when I climbed the East Buttress of El Cap in them.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Mar 20, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
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RDs were around at least as early as 1972
Mid 1960s at least. The Kronhofers in the first photo on this thread were used as state-of-the-art rock climbing shoes in the late 1950s and early 1960s, not merely as approach or scrambling shoes. I remember Kamps climbing in a pair in the Needles then. I had a pair also. But my favorites before RDs were Zillertals (very stiff, for edging), then PAs.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Mar 20, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
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From the Archives of Antiquity. Many of us on ST worked at the Hut at one time or another. I worked there from 1958-1963. The Golden Years in Hutology, when Steck was my boss. Someday, when I have nothing else to do, I will scan the entire series.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Mar 21, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
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When I was first exposed to climbing in 1971, the sexiest things going were high quality mountain boots. As I was coming from an intrepid backpacker culture this was a natural progression of technology. Regardless of what sport I indulge myself in, I always by the best sh#t on the market. So after being tempted in mountain porn mags I was convinced I needed these 5 lbs rigs. Talk about resistance training.
I saved enough on a PFC's wage until I could buy a pair of Super Guides, I was stoked to say the least. But one of their design failings was from a soft toe box and crampon straps that would inevitable crush it. So Galibier came out with the Super Pro, which was basically the Super Guide with a PVC toe cap. After many years of use the toe caps were gone. Nice boots none the less.
Another shoe that promised good things but didn't live up to RR's was the Vasque Ascender. It had a nice stiff shank;) and tried to be the next blue suede shoe but it never really matched the RRs for standing in slings. It is stiff as heck so standing on edges is about it's main forte. When I first gave them a shake down run I noticed the toe rand wore thru in about 3 pitches of aiding and jugging. The sole sucked for any kind of free climbing, so I had them resoled by the Rubber Room with C4. Unfortunately my life took me in a direction at this time where I didn't need them, so in a way they are still virgin.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Mar 21, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
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I used Kronhofers from 60's through 70's for all face climbing. With the help of Bruce Cooke, I learned to resole with smooth neoprene for super edging. I also added epoxy around the welt to minimize any bending, covered with rubber glue gunk. Really a mess come to think of it, and pretty poor on friction. These shoes were good in Tuolumne IF you mainly edged, but friction on glassy knobs was far from secure. Had to really keep your butt out. On Glacier Point Apron, Ks demanded even finer edging. For my crack climbing phase in Yosemite, I used EBs.
I seem to recall partner Bob Kamp liked Cortinas early on, even with no customized sole. Imagine doing hard 5.10 and 5.11 edging in vibrum soles on those shoes!
By the 80's, we finally moved on to "modern" shoes where, thankfully, edging and friction power were pretty well combined.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Nov 12, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
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Bump
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Nov 12, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
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I remember Rosholt doing Kloberdanz in Addidas, I also remember falling (sliding) right off of Moby Dick Center in RR's.
I still love Kronhoffers, you can do an alpine approach and climb with the same shoe. I had a larger pair for wearing thick wool socks when doing alpine rock routes in the cooler seasons.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 12, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
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Shounards came out after PA's and even EB's, I think. My buddy bought PA's and I bought Shoenards as our first shoes in 77 or so. Shoenards sucked at anything but mixed aid/easy free.
It's a good thing nobody ever informed Steve Wunsch of that before he freed Supercrack in the Gunks wearing them.
Curt
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 12, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
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Those were made by San Marco, Rich.
Curt
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 12, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
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There was a climb in Eldo I could only lead in my Shoenards. C'est La Vie edging up that crux dihedral. Ironically they were only needed for one foot and one move, and on the next move (smearing) I wished I could magically change shoes.
I'm sure better climbers have done both moves barefoot.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 12, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
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Top roping on a roadcut between Long Lake and Tupper Lake on a drizzly day in the Adirondacks around 1974.
Climbing in Fabianos. Obviously I devolved since I didn't get to Josh 'till '82...
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 13, 2013 - 12:36am PT
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The classic shot on Diamond Dogs. Very nice.
Curt
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fitzgeraldo
climber
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Jun 15, 2014 - 01:59am PT
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rgold asked "Yellow and Black ???"
these were from "san marco", italy. came out at the beginning of the 80'.
as i remember somehow patrick berhault was involved, wether seeing him climbing in this shoes and/or putting his name on it.
pretty comfortable but the rand didn't hold up well.
bought it in the lacedelli store in cortina.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Sep 30, 2014 - 08:37am PT
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Sep 30, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Happy to see that Zillertals get mentioned. Available from Ski Hut as mentioned. The seam on the forefoot blew out almost immediately as you'd expect. Then holes would develop at the big toes which would then stick out unceremoniously. These shoes made the apron a worthy climbing destination.
Below is a picture of Jack Rankin (the guy who taught Harding to climb) from Sacramento wearing Zillertals while practicing a dynamic hip belay down on the Sacramento river bottoms, probably 1961. Of course, in those days, "the leader must not fall."
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Happy to see that Zillertals get mentioned. Available from Ski Hut as mentioned. The seam on the forefoot blew out almost immediately as you'd expect. Then holes would develop at the big toes which would then stick out unceremoniously
I reinforced the toe on mine with a scrap of fiberglass cloth and some resin. It worked pretty well.
Can't remember who came up with that idea. It wasn't original.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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probably 1961. Of course, in those days, "the leader must not fall."
This is a joke, right?
Those shoes seem to have a rubber rand (or is it mud?), so maybe not Zillertals? I smeared epoxy glue on the toe area of mine to counteract the abrasion.
Georgia, 1954. JC Higgins work boots with attached lug rubber soles. Hemp rope. Match that, youngsters!
Zillertals early 1960s
PAs ca1959. Excellent shoes, but no sticky rubber.
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Yes, moisture/mud from tramping around on the Sacramento river bottom during belay practice.
Jack had a funky car, with a 2-stroke engine, help me here, please, with make those who may know. Maybe a Panhard? He attached a washing machine agitator (the central agitating tower) to a rear drive wheel. A couple of loops around it with a Columbia white nylon rope attached to a 200 lb concrete block lifted it up into a huge cottonwood. A manila rope served as the belay line which had been given the requested slack. when it dropped smoke would emanate from the leather butt patch. Jack here has buffered his patch with his leather jacket in an attempt to lessen the heat load on his posterior. Harding joined in the fun a few times too.
As I recall the Sierra Club RCS manual from that era contained the credo "the leader must not fall". After requesting 20 feet of slack we young initiates would take that to heart.
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ß Î Ř T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Shoenards sucked at anything but mixed aid/easy free. They were uncanny for standing on dime edges.
Sadly, I traded mine for some Redken bars of soap, and shampoo.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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As I recall the Sierra Club RCS manual from that era contained the credo "the leader must not fall".
Interesting. Geoffrey Winthrop Young may have made this comment - its first appearance in print - in one of his books about 1920, Mountain Craft possibly. I wouldn't have thought it would survive into the 1960s in California. In the early 1960s Dave Rearick told me his approach to rock climbing almost necessitated a fall, that if you didn't fall you had not reached your limits as a climber. And Royal Robbins entitled a book Fail Falling. But the SC may have been still living in a bygone era.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:27am PT
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pinckbrown
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe, CA
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:17am PT
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EB's, Royal Robbins, Shoenards, PA's, John Long bongs, Goldline
.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Nov 27, 2015 - 06:16am PT
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It is probably not the right place to post such mountaineering big leather shoes here, but, as this thread is well illustrated, I have thought that you may be interested to see these boots. If you look for the Trappeur Nanda Devi on the Internet, you will not find any information or photograph about them… The French mountain guide Walter Cecchinel was the technical adviser for Trappeur in the seventies and eighties. If they are not as famous as the Galibier Desmaison Makalu-Hivernale, from the historical point of view the Trappeur Cecchinel Nanda Devi are most interesting. Used on the Nanda Devi in 1975, these boots summited the Everest with Pierre Mazeaud, Jean Afanassieff and Nicolas Jaeger during the first French ascent in 1978. Then they became the Trappeur Everest 78!
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2015 - 08:32am PT
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America went all techno and lost it's soul.
They can't make a good shoe no more like the old craftsmen.
They are 0wned by the machine.
That's why America has become poor .....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 27, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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Oh Werner, you should never have left the fine and quality life in the city of Duk, capitol of far away Ikantstandistan for the misery of America. Sure there's work and lives to save but things are so slack and shoddy here...Even cobblers can't deliver a proper boot to correct the situation directly.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Mar 31, 2016 - 02:11am PT
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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May 12, 2016 - 01:21am PT
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After 25 years of research, I have finally got this pair of Trappeur rare boots! It is an early model of Nanda Devi (Everest 78) that I believe was called Walter Cecchinel Cervin. What is amazing is that I found these French mountaineering boots in USA. Thank you David for all your help.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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May 19, 2016 - 06:19am PT
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 19, 2016 - 06:39am PT
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Like all climbing related equipment mountain boots and rock shoes were complete shite compared to what is now available. The equipment that has most advanced today's climbing performance has been ice tools and footwear.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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May 19, 2016 - 11:19am PT
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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May 19, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
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McHale's Navy wrote, several pages back, asking: "Anyone know the Baboon Hang where you can quickly turn a long runner into a seat harness - if you are still conscious!?"
I have tried that and it works like a charm, if you've the standard runner size, which means one that fits comfortably over your chest diagonally, more or less. Longer ones aren't worth a damn.
Chuck Pratt is a name which I associate with the baboon hang. He may have written a blurb or said something in print about it.
Back to footwear...presented for our olfactory and historical sensibilities by someone attending the OCF in O in '13.
edit: Tony, you may be right--I couldn't decide if they were EBs or not...patch on the inner ankle, if that helps.
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Tony Puppo
climber
Bishop
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May 19, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
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Looks more like RR Varappe on Yabo
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Oct 29, 2016 - 01:53am PT
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 29, 2016 - 02:28am PT
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These may be resurrected Carry on !
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Jan 18, 2017 - 07:57am PT
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Does anybody know who made these shoes and what year?
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Mar 21, 2017 - 01:16am PT
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"PA" Pierre Allain, "RD" René Desmaison, "PE" Patrick Edlinger...
Is there anybody who knows what does "B.B." stand for?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 21, 2017 - 09:17am PT
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I have a pair of those boots also and have been wondering the very same thing. I don't even have a good guess beyond it likely being a French climber.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Mar 21, 2017 - 09:42am PT
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Thank you Master Grossman. Great to know that you have got a pair of these rather rare climbing boots. I should get a pair within a couple of months. Just a question: as most of the photographs which I found are in black & white, I am wondering if the red leather part of these B.B's found on eBay would not have been stained with a darker color.
Believe it or not, I do not have any idea about a French climber named with the initials "B.B."
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I didn't see $14 JC Penny work boots in the OP's picture. I pretty much split between them and barefoot in '74.
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Barbarian
climber
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I believe BB may stand for Barbie Benton.
I don't know if she every climbed anything, but at least you now have a pleasant thought for today.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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And... why not Brigitte Bardot... ;-)
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Does anyone have a brief history of the hardest climbs that Pratt did in Pivetta Muir Trail hiking boots? It would be instructive to repeat the climbs with that footwear and possibly no chalk, just to see how much of a difference it makes.
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Barbarian
climber
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Pratt was a total badass. I doubt too many folks could climb at his level given those constraints.
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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In those days money was a big issue. I had to make them last.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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The crew I'd hang out with in the 70s - we would take pride in what we could get up with holes in our EBs, ratty slings and nuts, swamis and dubiuos ropes (though the were fat!). Those EBs look like mine!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jun 24, 2017 - 06:24am PT
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 24, 2017 - 09:25am PT
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I had the lowcut version of the Contact on for one of my neckiest leads, Lucky Goes to the Creamery 5.11X in Sedona.
Tim Coats photo
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jun 25, 2017 - 08:42am PT
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If I am not wrong the name of the lowcut version of the Contact is Grand Teton. There were two versions, one made of leather, one made of leather and canvas.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 25, 2017 - 09:32am PT
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Mine were the all leather version. Very well made boot.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jun 25, 2017 - 09:52am PT
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The leather and canvas versions of the two models were brown.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Marlow, what do you think of these one... ;-)
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Jan 11, 2018 - 08:16am PT
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Black Beauty’s at Joshua Tree 1972
My first pair of climbing shoes
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:56am PT
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Canyon Chouinards were my favorite pre Fire shoe.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 11, 2018 - 10:59am PT
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then my 1st pair of Kletter shoes from Hans Kraus,maybe 1970-71,
how old back then? & now ?
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Jan 11, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
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I started climbing in RD's. They were terrible. PA's were better but when I got my hands on EB's I fell in love with them.
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| Messages 1 - 158 of total 158 in this topic |
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