8mm button head tests

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Messages 41 - 52 of total 52 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Apr 25, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
Usually I feel the button head is the not issue but rather the attached rusted hanger.
Greg Barnes

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
I talked to one of the FA members and he wanted the route put back to original configuration but hard to know what bolts were added. In any case, the 5/16" still good.
Yep that can be a tough situation. The guidebook topo is often wrong, the memories of the climb are often hazy, and strong emotions get in the way of figuring out what is original and what (if anything) has been added - particularly when it's rumored that bolt(s) have been added even if they haven't. It's usually pretty easy to figure out by examining the bolt locations, the spacing, the stances, etc. Added bolts tend to be off the deck and at cruxes. Also sometimes it can be a dead giveaway (e.g. if the new bolts were placed next to the old then the old pulled, and you can find the old 1/4" hole, patched or not).

Back on topic…I still won't mess with 5/16" buttonheads with good hangers unless there's an obvious reason (loose bolt, fractured rock, extremely rusty, etc). They are actually rated stronger than many 3/8" stud bolts (even without over-torquing of the stud bolt…).
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 05:10pm PT
I followed p1 of Greasy But Groovy in 1985 and the 1982 guidebook topo was accurate. There were no bolts on this 5.9 pitch.
At some point since then somebody probably thought it was unclimbed and bolted over it. So those bolts didn't get replaced.
Greg Barnes

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
Cool, there you have it.

Speaking of which, what's the general date range you could guess that pitch was bolted? Seems like many 5/16" were mostly '87-89 or so, after people were getting sketched on 1/4" but before power drills were in use (prior to being banned)? Or '86-88, or what?

I often use the FA date when guessing what bolts one might encounter...
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:40pm PT
It's frustrating not having old guides, and of coarse can't publish online because of copyright? I'd love to see the 85' topo of GBG. It does seem like Greg's timeline of 5/16" is accurate as other climbs in the valley seem to support when they were placed and power drills available (who'd want to hand drill 5/16"). Had anyone placed 5/16" by hand?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:02pm PT
Some people post them anyway. I don't think it's all that bad to post a "historic" topo 2 editions old.
Compare with the 1994 topo and you can see 5 bolts were added.

We routinely drilled 5/16" by hand.
Greg Barnes

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
Tony, any time you're looking for an older topo, especially when researching bolts, email me, I have a good collection and I'm happy to give details/send topos. Although you will find that the older topos for some areas like Tuolumne were not so great on bolt accuracy.

Or just ask Clint, particularly for the Valley!
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:30pm PT
Cool! I emailed the FA member again and asked if an original topo is available. There are inaccuracies on both of the topo's but that'd be OT. So far, it seems like the easiest way to pull the buggers is with forks? Also, aren't some of the bolts added to Bolt Run/Eunich 5/16" button heads? Some are spinners and should be replaced as traffic is heavy on those routes. I understand that there is some controversy about the route leading to non-replacement/restoration?
matlinb

Trad climber
Albuquerque
Jun 27, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
I have read quite a few posts on 1/4" button heads, and have placed a few on a rock in the back yard. However, the only bolts I have every placed on routes are 3/8" x 2.25" or 3/8" x 3" 5-piece.

What are people thoughts on using a 3/8" x 2" spike placed in a hole drilled with a standard 3/8" SDS hand drill, as an emergency bolt for back country / alpine routes. I am climbing in New Mexico / Colorado above 10,000 feet, where the granite can be very coarse and grainy some of the time.

When I look at powers specs these are several times stronger than the 1/4". And because they have the crook in them instead of the 2 "fins" them might bend instead of just gouging slots in the rock.

Of course someone will point out that there is not much difference between 2" and 2.25" and I might as well put a 5 piece in.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Jun 27, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
You will need a sledge hammer to place a 3/8ths button head.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jun 27, 2014 - 06:49pm PT
The bolt type in this photo is called a "Spike",
compared with a "Drive" which is the traditional "split shaft".
http://www.powers.com/mechanical.php
Although both have a "button head", it would reduce confusion
if you call it a Spike, to maintain the distinction.
The Stainless Spike has a much lower pullout strength; about 60% of the (carbon steel) Drive (Ultimate Tension load 2570 vs. 4240 pounds).

When my partner and I place bolts (hand drilled granite) on FAs, we use 3/8" x 2.25" stainless
steel "wedge bolts" (aka "Power-Stud" on the Powers page above).
These have excellent strength, longevity and a low price;
the main drawback compared to the 5-piece (aka "Power-Bolt" on page above) is that they cannot be removed easily.

In softer rock, the 5-piece is preferred (over the wedge / Power-Stud) because it distributes the load across more of the hole.
matlinb

Trad climber
Albuquerque
Jun 27, 2014 - 07:55pm PT
Thanks. That is the info I was looking for!
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