Anchor Building Question

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 41 - 60 of total 92 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
DanaB

climber
CT
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:01am PT
Jim Titt from Munich posts here once in a while, but for some reason, much more often on RC.Com. I couldn't find the posts/threads, but he presents some very convincing evidence a) against the sliding X, b) the impossibility of equalizing, and c) the dangers of extension shock loading. He has acccess to testing equipment and the knowledge and experience for using it sensibly, and he also has, I believe, access to the German Alpine Club's extensive data base on testing ropes and anchors. He did some very interesting tests on equalizing loads with the rope, slings, and cordolettes. He found that when using a cordolette with three legs, if there was even a tiny bit of difference in the length of legs - a difference no one could see or feel - then the loads to each leg were grossly disproportionate. So if you are using a three-leg cordolette, you are essentially anchoring from one piece. Which is fine, of course, it really is. All of this anchor discussion makes many people impatient, but it is just a way of learning to use the tools sensibly. I certainly don't spend a lot of time agonizing over the anchors I build. Good pieces and good rock - after that, in most cases what you do doesn't matter too much, e.g., I would never use the sliding X but I wouldn't go nuts if one of my partners did

TheTye

Trad climber
Sacramento CA
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:08am PT
Wolf-

Yea. That is kinda what I was thinking but I thought mayhap there was something I was missing that made it clean and quick, like maybe clove hitching to additional biners or something like that... but yes, cordellete all the way... and maybe the occasional rope anchor at the last pitch...
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:11am PT
Tye, if you are not swapping leads it gets difficult to use only the rope. Someone may pipe in with a method that works that I'm not aware of, but most of the time that scenario is going involve a cordalette or equalized slings for her to clip into. At that point you are probably going to be clipped into it too negating the rope-only method.

Edit to add:

If there is a large enough ledge, the hubby and I sometimes just untie and swap rope-ends when there is only one leader (providing it can be done safely of course). That way the rope is already flaked correctly negating the rope clusterf*#k and a lot of time is saved.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:12am PT
rgolds setup is a lot easier to understand if you just do it. Go try it starting at step 1 and work your way through. You will find it very quick and simple to do and pretty obvious when building it.

It is automatically set up for swapping leads. If you don't plan to swap leads a cordallette or other non rope only anchor may be preferable but is still not absolutely necessary.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:20am PT
John Long taught me many years ago (through one of his books) that my anchors should be able to handle an upward pull.

I don't see how that would work in rgold's diagram.

Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:21am PT
If there is a large enough ledge, the hubby and I sometimes [...]

The second part of that sentence was not as interesting as it could have been.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:25am PT
...Take a nap?

...swap..er.. something other than rope ends?

;)

locker

Social climber
FukUville
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:39am PT


"the hubby and I sometimes just untie and swap rope-ends when there is only one leader"...

Dangerous!!!...

I actually did it one time and started leading having forgotten to tie back in...

LOL!!!...

TRUE!!!...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:41am PT
Solid
Redundant
Equalized
and have No Extension if one of the redundant components fail

Does this apply to a boot axe belay too?
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:43am PT
Unless you're on a pretty bolted anchor, mostly the solid anchor elements don't line up in a textbook way.

So I tend to custom make whatever the situation calls for, keeping basic principles in mind rather than a formulaic anchor strategy:
 if any piece blows, is it going to cause something else to blow and/or shift things enough to screw me?
 is the anchor solid enough and conveniently placed to redirect the belay? or do I need to supplement the anchor with my body position and belaying off my waist to absorb shock? if I don't need to do that, try to save arm strength by redirecting belay and using body weight to pull up rope slack.
 are we swapping leads or do I need to quickly re-rig to lead next pitch?
 do I have enough/right pieces left for robust anchor placements, enough biners, etc... is the next pitch a rope stretcher?
 are we running out of time, just need something fast even if it's not the most perfect possible solution (but still needs to keep us alive)


Every belay is like a minor variation on a basic freshman physics problem.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 22, 2013 - 09:52am PT
Dangerous!

Well, I did ad that "providing it can be done safely" disclaimer. Obviously there's always ways to UN-safe any procedure.

I actually did it one time and started leading having forgotten to tie back in...

Yeah.. Let's get real.. I'd be willing to wager that's happened to many of us leaving flat ground. Look at the up- side.. At least if you forget to tie back in on multi-pitch you'll be dead instead of maimed for life if you fell off.
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:20am PT
Bombproof gear tolerates just about any construction method.
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:32am PT

THREAD DRIFT:


IMHO untying during a multipitch climb is NOT a real GUD habit to get into...

And that's "Getting real", in my opinion...

;-)




EDITED:

If you're climbing with a partner unwilling or unable to swap leads...

IMO it's SAFER to just go ahead and deal with the cluster fuk rather than untying...

labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:46am PT
"IMHO untying during a multipitch climb is NOT a real GUD habit to get into..."

Agree locker. Always has made me nervous but admit I have done it plenty. I have often been the only leader or not done the leading at all. Using a separate cord for making the anchor works better for me in these situations. Follower comes up and clips to master point, flop or re flake the rope and go.
Erik
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Having only one size fits all is n00b ......

Priceless truth...
ruppell

climber
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:06am PT
John Long taught me many years ago (through one of his books) that my anchors should be able to handle an upward pull.

I don't see how that would work in rgold's diagram.

Substitute one of those nuts for a cam. Problem solved.
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:12am PT



Multipitch climb and your partner UNTIES at every belay (and expects YOU to do the same???)???...



Is it SAFER to do on a TWO PITCH climb than on a 10, 12, 15 pitch job???...



FUK THAT!!!...




Get a new partner or stick with SINGLE pitching...

LMAO!!!...

Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:26am PT
USE CAMS INSTEAD OF NUTS AND ALL ANCHORS ARE BOMBER!!!!1111
John Butler

Social climber
SLC, Utah
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:38am PT
I like to keep it simple enough to be quick about it, but not so simple as to piss off my partner when he arrives at the station.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:56am PT
Kris,

There are things out there, on the internet.

People call them "trolls"

Sorry Dave. I thought the op might be a troll, but I though you were being serious. My bad.

...Going back in my hole now.
Messages 41 - 60 of total 92 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews