Who invented modern reverse-curve pick Ice tools?

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Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 23, 2013 - 03:53pm PT

This looks to be an early model Chacal.

Edit:RDB thinks early 80s.

The classic Simond markings. Did these picks have so little to sharpen when new or has this one been filed down?

RDB

Social climber

Feb 23, 2013 - 05:58pm PT

Black pick is late '80s Steve. Chrome plated ones were earlier, The one you have has been filed a lot in comparison to how hard they are and hpw long would last. The red one below is a second gen. Dbl spike was not common. I never saw one imported into the NA. Climb high in the US and MEC in Canada were th importers.

early Chacal

New picks and different Simond tools. I think the axe was called a Mustang but I'd need to look it up. When you have a spare pick in your hand it is clear what Gordon Smith was saying about flipping a standard curved pick oevr and drilling it as a reverse curve pick. Easy if you had the tools and the blanks sitting there. Some one was thinking :) Instant, giant size, Terrodactyl. Brilliant! That the new picked worked so well had to be a surprise to everyone.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 23, 2013 - 06:12pm PT

Thanks for the clarifications.

RDB

Social climber

Feb 23, 2013 - 09:26pm PT

Barracuda (with a Chacal) soloing on the approach slopes of Polar Circus in '84. Right about the time the Barracuda was first imported to the US. But they were available by '81 or '82 in France and the UK.

Notably used on Taulliraju (Peru ), South Face, by Mick Fowler and Chris Watts in '82. Check out the 2nd ascent in in 2003 AAJ. Impressive climb!

RDB

Social climber

Feb 23, 2013 - 10:39pm PT

"From the posts in this thread an observation one might make is that it was Hamish McInnes and his Terro that made the biggest impression on modern ice and mixed climbing."

Here is a second answer to the same question. Hopefully the picture will be more definative.

In effect not a lot has changed from the original Terrodactyls. The handles and picks have gotten longer and more ergonomic but past that...really not much. Slight improvements on the Terro...not all that impressive when you look at the actual lineage. Biggest advantage is the additional clearence that has been with each new generation.

As a comparison Black Diamond offers 4 technical tools. All with about a 2 degree change in pick angle between each of the 4 tools. About 10 degrees over all last I heard. (Reactor, Viper, Cobra Fusion) No where near that much differeence between the originals Terros, the Chacal and the Nomic.

Anyone that originally climbed hard with a Terrordactyl could very easily switch to a current Nomic and climb much, much harder with a lot less effort. And.....more security. If you liked a Terro, a new Ergo would make you think it true bliss by comparison. At some point the newest tools just becomes cheating :) But even the Ergo is just a Terro with more clearence than a Nomic.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Feb 24, 2013 - 04:51am PT

I placed 2 pins with my quarks on the upper part of this route yesterday. Isa could not clean them with her Nomics;) I had to rap the route to get my Iron back ;)...


	My 1st lead of Orcs and Goblins WI4+M4 Credit: tradmanclimbs


	Orcs and Goblins 4+M4 Credit: tradmanclimbs

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Feb 24, 2013 - 04:55am PT

I feel that the biggest difference is Not the clearence but the grips and knuckle protectors.

RDB

Social climber

Feb 24, 2013 - 11:12am PT

Certainly some advantages to the newest grips...but that is ergonomics. Clearing buldges, good sticks and easy hooking? That is the radical clearence in the shaft of the newest tools.

:)