BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dec 31, 2012 - 11:50am PT
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Ed wrote, I assume flippantly,
will evolution make me money?
no.
who cares about it?
Paleontology is a big part of petroleum geology of some areas, particularly the gulf of mexico. So yeah...it helps make money. Without it, it is hard to tell what age of rocks you are in.
This isn't so difficult on the onshore Pennsylvanian or Cretaceous basins. Those basins are like a layer cake and the correlations are easier.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 31, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
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You don't have to believe in evolution or understand how it works to put the fossils in the right order. I went to school with an amazing mineralogist who had damn near every mineral formula you could imagine memorize, knew loads about mineral assemblages, and remembered the layout of buildings based on Miller indices... he still insisted the Earth was 6,000 years old, evolution was designed by god to test his faith, and all that stuff he knew about mineralogy was some kind of elaborate code from god.
Again, that paradigm is ENTIRELY unsustainable... at least until they reinterpret/rewrite their holy books (AGAIN) to include renunciation of material possessions, respect for life, and good will towards all mankind...
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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Can I respectfully take the opposite stance, MikeL?
If it was not for "intelligence", we would still be living in the trees
If it was not for intelligence we would not be living in climate controlled houses and driving reliable cars
we would not be able have our knees replaced, or be able to live past around 45
we would still be sawing off limbs without anesthesia and dying fast of heart attacks
I'll take intelligence for 10 Alex
None of those things guarantee survival of our species. Plus, living in trees and not living to be old and crabby might be a good thing. Intelligence just makes us think that we are better than everything else, but are we? Are we better off being smart or will it be our downfall?
Dinosaurs were big. It was their downfall but I'm sure that they enjoyed ruling the world. They dominated much longer than we have.
Dave
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
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Riley and Donini, about spelling bees. They require little critical thinking
Don't get me wrong - I am all about critical thinking and it is virtually gone in the ER's I now work in.
But here is my thinking - to win a national spelling bee requires a massive amount of knowledge and the ability to think on the fly concerning the origin of the word, etc - there is an incredible amount going on in the brain of very good speller. no?
I dunno - perhaps it is mostly memorization?
I'm a ridiculously poor speller - but an exceptionally good critical thinker.....
You give me something to think about - perhaps it is just learning rules and memorizing...hmmmm
I have always been impressed with the Spelling Bee movies - those kids seemed incredibly bright.
I would be curious to find out what top national spellers go on to for careers.
I know a few spelling bee champs who are actually pretty dumb - come to think of it..
hmm - perhaps it is analogous to memorizing the multiplication tables - and never developing a greater understanding of the relationship between numbers?
Laurence Fishburne - you lied to me!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
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Base, Happy New Year!
, it is hard to tell what age of rocks you are in.
Hey Base didn't the Planet and all its elements arrive in this solar system
all at once? I mean is not the "dirt" of the world all the same age?
Maybe if you would describe to me in a 1000 words or less how you can tell
when a pile of dirt formed into a rock? Or did the Earth start out as all rock and erode into dirt?
And whats the theory of this "layer cake" way of predicting how old rock is? Does it go, the deeper it is the older it is?
Also, do you have any oppinion about all the continents once being joined
together?
Jus Ask'in For Some Educate'in
BB
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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Perhaps not appreciated, is that in every other aspect of the natural world, what defines the relative order of species, are physical attributes.
Human progenitors were NOT the top of the food chain. Intelligence changed that, at least on our planet.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
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When the rest of the world talks about "that country" with all of the religious fanatics and psychos, the're not talking about Iran or Afganistan or Pakistan.
They're talking about the United States of America.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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Ed: Robert Hutchings Goddard.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
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yes, some dinos were big, and our best guess is a big ass asteroid was their undoing
yes they were the top of earth's food chain for millions of years
and yes our human existence on this earth may not last anywhere near as long as theirs
they got this new thing called carbon dating that does indeed tell us how old stuff is
we can send an unmanned spacecraft traveling for months to Mars, land itself, take probes and insure it is operative for years doing scientific research, pretty good!
although we cannot "yet" create molecular life, but we are have a good idea of how life on our planet came into being and evolved to our present state
we no longer believe the earth is flat, we can split atoms, and we for sure know that the Grand Canyon and Half Dome are a hell of lot older than 6000 years
we can't raise the dead with incantations, but we can cure many diseases
our old and poor don't have to suffer in poverty and starvation anymore, we know how to mitigate human misery through our "intelligence"
Intelligence for 20 Alex
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 31, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
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and our best guess is a big ass asteroid was their undoing
Just see the scientific process.
One big guess.
Just guess and pass it on as so called intelligent knowledge which all the fools lap up like stupid dogs ......
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Dec 31, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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I'll toss in a couple more scientists working before WWII:
Warren Lee McCabe
Ernest Thiele
John H. Perry
Nice essay, Ed.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 31, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
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One big guess.
Albeit a much more accurate guess than religion.....
Science disproves itself all the time and moves along to the next theory, and the most important part is that it's ok with that.
Religion depends on the same fairy tales FOREVER!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 31, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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That's right, Werner
It is ONLY 2012 and we don't know "everything" yet, and maybe we never will
so yes, some things science has to "guess" at
so what? you are a master at stating the obvious, rest up and try again
If you think your childish "criticism" of science is somehow valid, then stick to talking to your old man in the forest and all your vague and useless mental speculating
oh, and Werner?
I see you are starting up again on "stalking" my posts, when are you going to grow up?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 31, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
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Norton
I wasn't talking to you, you ignorant overgrown whiny cry baby.
Man are you stupid .....
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 31, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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I guess my question is, do future generations want to be intelligent?
Look at the people around you. most are living day to day. as long as they
are doing their job, getting paid, and are happy. do you think they care if they're intelligent?
Look at the younger kids also. they are not seeing what's going on around them. they only see what's on a screen six inches in front of them.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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Dec 31, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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lots of guessing on both sides isnt there...
Yup..
Do i believe MEN can relate a story accurately over such a length of time as to lend any point by point Factual reference of any religions book? No,, as stories cant even be related accurately over a week between 10 of em.
Not to say they al dont contain facts, but whimsy is an un-identifiable ting in the hearts of those that wrote them. So we get all manner of interpretations.
But even the natural people of this land , long ago, held dear their beliefs and their Gods before any Euro-or modern influence. Much of this was just acceptable societal rules. but they had those beliefs, and in many ways resemble some of the far eastern beliefs of a soul and its passage into the spirit world. Did my Choctaw relatives have contact with far eastern people LONG LONG ago?? Or did they come up with those similar conclusions exclusively ?
Theres as much mystery left in science as religion..
Personally, i just keep tailoring the factual evidence of evolution into a less strict interpretation of my own God..After all he is a personal choice..And i can live the best of both of those "worlds", while chucking the non sense and miss interpretation.
Fpr example: God created man in his image..Image being totally a self opinion right? What if God at that time thought of himself as a slug or some multi cell blob never yet identified? Who knows right?
The god of Nature is strong in the Choctaw- as it should be. Who knows right?
But as climbers, we get treated to views most of the rest of the world never see in person. Those moments of Alpen glow splash that make you stop in yur tracks - or that brush by from a wandering bobcat allowing you a quick picture are moments, where there has to be a BETTER thing going on than we can see/smell/touch or hear.
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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Dec 31, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
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I guess my question is, do future generations want to be intelligent?
Look at the people around you. most are living day to day. as long as they
are doing their job, getting paid, and are happy. do you think they care if they're intelligent?
Look at the younger kids also. they are not seeing what's going on around them. they only see what's on a screen six inches in front of them.
Yes, there are many incredibly boring, incurious and uninteresting dregs in the world - but there are still many, or at least some, who are not.
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