I'm so proud of my president.

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deepnet

Boulder climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 16, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
Truly engaged leader.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:04pm PT
Yep. Class act. My poor old Goldwater Republican right-wing nut dad is squirming 'cause he wants to h8 on this but can find an approach angle...yet. Given enough time he'll claim Obama was the shooter.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
Sniff . . .

Yeah, he did what he had to do. But, did he have to play the gun card at the memorial?
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
^^^^Because I think the man is getting sick of the sh#t.

Too many memorials for dead little kids will get to you after a while.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
I have never seen the number of utter nutjob conspiracy garbage lies actually getting airtime over Obama.

Well, the Clinton's having a secret drug running airbase in Arkansas, with bodies buried everywhere.....that was a good one.

I have come to the conclusion that all of this rabid brain loss over Obama is because he is black. People that really aren't racist are eating up stuff produced by people who are kind of racist without being aware of it.

Obama isn't that bad. Everyone in the oil business thought he was going to cut our throats, but he has been quite good. Reagan stood by while the U.S. oil companies were cut off at the knees. The Saudis flooded the market back in the early eighties and Reagan allowed a whole generation of sience and technology wither. We actually call it the missing generation. All of the geologists got laid off and nobody got hired. My class went from 400 as a freshman to 20 when I graduated. No kidding. Reagan was quite happy if gas prices were low.

I have no idea why that dipshit is so beloved to this day. It is a big deal if a consulate got wiped out and 4 killed under Obama.

Out of Reagan's cabinet, about half of them were convicted of felonies. Bush later pardoned almost all of them. Even his chief of staff and defense secretary were convicted.

To call the Obama administration the most corrupt ever is propaganda that the Nazi's would approve of.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
really,gun card,did you have to play the db card at this forum.if you cannot get behind what that man said ,you are more than part of the problem.......obama is a man.the next thing you are going to say ,i know ,guns did not kill those kids.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
On the other hand, Obama does seem to get a free pass on stuff Bush received much criricism for, like signing statements, for example . . .

Wilbeer, I simply was surprised that he brought it up. Didn't think he was going to at first. I think it was a delicate decision. I'm sure he thought hard about it. I really don't have strong feelings about the gun control thing.

Frankly, I have been trying to do a little research about gun violence and gun laws, get some facts instead of just relying on knee-jerk reactions which may not be based on fact.

Obama is alright. We could have done worse. I think people put too much on the president. They aren't all powerful.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:36pm PT
Nah. Bush got away with so many signing statements.

That was after 9-11, and Bush got a lot of bad advice from Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and most of all, Cheney. They took advantage of 9-11 and did a lot of stuff that would have never happened otherwise. Take the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act as two examples. Colin Powell's speech at the United Nations, outlining Saddam's WMD baloney will be in every American History book for the next 200 years.

I believe that Cheney will go down in history as an evil man. As for Bush, well, nobody exactly asked for his endorsement in the last two elections. That should tell you something.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
Obama said he would not use signing statements. But, once in office, he just couldn't resist.
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
In regards to the orignal post, Obama proves to be a class act imo.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
The man is between a rock and a hard place.

What "LAW" can he possibly sign that will eliminate crazy and evil?

NONE.

Taking guns away - neither likely nor effective. You penalize the 260 million gun owners who don't shoot up kindergartners in hopes that you get the one nutjob who will?

Not likely nor feasible.

The sad truth is that this kind of craziness will continue to be a part of Our American Experience.



rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:41pm PT
Maybe our dear leader is right. Perhaps we, as a national experiment, should enact some of the strictest gun laws in the nation in our leaders hometown of Chicago.I bet the murder by gun rate would plummet and he would no longer have to mourn the innocent children lost in the crossfire-right?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:46pm PT
"did he have to play the gun card at the memorial?"

It's about time he (or any politician) stood up and took action on this.

Time will tell how much progress he makes, but it sure sounds like he's gonna take this on.

That's a good reason to be proud of him, in my book.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
well i misunderstood,and a bit emotional about this ,whole thing.i have become a stearn obama defender.especially after this speech. and i have not seen him get any free passes.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
Jeez People!

I just said I was surprised he brought it up at the memorial.

Of course this issue will be moving up on the priority list. Perhaps some new legislation will be put forward. But, the 2 party system we are stuck in ensures that any reform to current gun laws will be watered down and meaningless. There's a good chance the legislation will be hijacked by special interest groups and loaded with loop holes and sweetheart deals for said groups, who will make a killing.

God Bless America!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
how clever to throw the word "worship" when talking about Americans who preferred Obama to either John McCain or Mitt Romney!

nice little insult!

oh wait!

by "worship" you mean the huge crowds of screaming and adoring "fans" that Sarah Palin drew during the campaign?

Or maybe by "worship" you are talking about how John McCain was such a media "celebrity" for 30 years, 89 times on Sunday shows, war hero and all

but let's take a quick look at "just another average Democrat"

another cute little insult

I'll stop on this now, it's like talking to a third grader
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
If Obama mentioned Guns in the memorial, it wasn't overemphasized. I think I missed it.

But he did speak profoundly and from the heart, and in contrast to the droning platitudes of the speakers before him.

Some members of the Westboro Church are blaming Obama for the Massacre because of his support for Gay marriage. You had to figure somebody was going to find a way to scapegoat Obama.

I don't agree with Obama on many things, but I think he's the best guy that the elite power and money would allow to be elected, and at least he does the unfortunate things that Bush started in a smarter and more efficient way.

Peace

karl
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
^^^^ That's what I call Obama worship.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
There are two ways we can go with this shithole of a country -

One is to just man up and admit that we really are at our core a hateful, war mongering, violent, gun obsessed collection of wanna-be-warriors and run with it like the Trojans or the Spartans. Just fukin kill everything that we don't like and end up ruling the world.

Or do we say "QUIT" this crazy sh#t - quit watching the damn cop shows and the CSI gorefests, screw the exploding cars in our movies, no more first person shoot-em-up video games for our 3 year olds, quit being mean goddammit!


Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
Nothing personal Norton . . . Touchy!
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:02pm PT

Let's hope our President doesn't have to speak at any more
memorials like tonight's.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
reeeotch,must be nice to walk that fence,slam both sides,never take a stance. bye
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
In the coming weeks, I’ll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because what choice do we have? We can’t accept events like this as routine.

Crap, he played the 'lets look for a way to help our kids' card.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
C'mon Norton, they weren't insults. They could more accurately be called cynical remarks aimed at our seemingly ineffective political system. I'm not attacking anyone.

Wilbeer, If you must know, I'm not sure how much of an impact gun restrictions would have on the level of violence in our country. I hear that the cities with the most restrictive laws also have the highest levels of violence.

Look guys, I'm not out to fight. I like heated discussion. Maybe a little ribbing, but no need to get hostile. Like I said, I'm still in the gathering of information phase.

In the coming weeks, I’ll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because what choice do we have? We can’t accept events like this as routine.

The president has my full support on this. But, it is not only about gun control.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
Why do republicons love leaders who are posers, liars, and hypocrites so much?

That's easy. It's because they want leaders who accurately reflect their core values.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:32pm PT
The sad truth is that this kind of craziness will continue to be a part of Our American Experience.

The real sad truth is a hoard of sackless cowards believe and perpetrate this myth.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:36pm PT
You're right Norton, I broke the flow of the thread. I'll try to be more considerate next time.

I've seen much harsher stuff getting posted regularly on here. But, I was the first one who called Obama into question - my bad!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
we should all be proud of OUR president.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:40pm PT
Yes it was YOUR bad.
KlimbIn

climber
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:42pm PT

I'm 46. I have kids that were that age not that long ago. I have been climbing outside since Thusrday, enjoying the fantastic weather we've been having, away from the media. I just heard the news today and saw the speech tonight.

I cried: for the children who will not grow, for my children who that might have been, and for the parents who will never forget the loss.

The President never mentioned guns in this speech. Listen with your heart and an open mind. He said that we must find a solution whatever it may be to keep these murders from happening.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:48pm PT
He said that we must find a solution

the gun nuts know the solution they just can't say it outloud
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
Reeotch, where in the 4 corners?
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
still tryin' to figure out the rules, philo . . .

nick d, Kayenta, on the Navajo rez.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 16, 2012 - 10:59pm PT
A moving, eloquent and, more importantly, honest speech. I believe that Obama spoke from the heart......let's see what follows. I would sell any stock i had in companies who make assault weapons.
If any good comes from this tragedy it will be helping to, in a small way, neuter the NRA a truly horrific institution.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 16, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
Toadgas shows his powerful intellect by calling the President an "atheist"

in all honesty, Obama does not sound credible when he speaks in the terms of old-time religion...he's a highly intelligent fellow who likely, in his heart, is an atheist...he (was) a lawyer, with a Harvard education, after all

and then Toadgas says that the President is an Atheist because, wait for this, he was a lawyer, and you know, with a "Harvard education"

so dumb ass Toadgas, is Mitt Romney an "atheist" because he is a Harvard lawyer?

How about the nine Supreme Court Justices and HALF of our US Congress, they are lawyers AND Harvard educated.

THEY are all "atheist" in your so educated opinion?

OR, is is just the President who is an Atheist, Toady?

You know, the black Democrat President guy?

Damn, I am tired of this relentless, constant, bullshit ignorance
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 16, 2012 - 11:49pm PT
On another tact, Anonymous has been hacking the snot out of the Westboro Baptist Church. They are evidently going to show up at the funerals with their typical psychotic signs:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/12/anonymous-responds-to-westboros-newtown-plans.html
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 17, 2012 - 12:21am PT
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S SPEECH WAS AWESOME!!!

One of the BEST Spiritual speeches EVER!

He REALLY spooke to my Soul.

He even said "Soul" 4 times.

And reverted to the Bible, like 10 times.

He actually quoted Jesus!

i'm SO Stoked to have a Black Christian in the White House!

Now if we could get a Big Black Southern Baptist Chior behind him we could have a Revival!!!

God Bless You Mr.President Obama..
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 17, 2012 - 12:47am PT
One of the most difficult and most important parts of your president's job description is as mourner-in-chief. Obama performs it as well as he does much of the rest of his job, which is to say quite well indeed in the circumstances.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 17, 2012 - 01:01am PT
I missed the speech but heard it is very powerful. I'll go watch it.

This gun-rabble is a side show that can wait a week or two. It is an obvious connection to make, but what makes these people tick is more important.

You can't round up the mentally ill. That covers a wide amount of ground from fully functioning people on meds and others who have no idea of where they are.

Nothing is black and white. So many shades of grey.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:17am PT
He sounded exactly how you would expect and hope a president would sound who does not at all relish the idea of attending yet a fifth such mass murder memorial in as many years, which is what he will be doing the way we're going now.
gonamok

climber
dont make me come over there
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:46am PT
Gun control looks good on paper, but all it will really do is take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Criminals dont care about the law, so the ones most likely to commit mayhem with a firearm will have guns while law abiding citizens lose theirs. Why would we want the good guys to have to face an armed intruder with pepper spray?

Its too late to take guns away, they are here to stay like it or not. What needs to be addressed is the mental illness that afflicts these shooters. Dont fear guns. Fear guns in the hands of mentally ill cowards.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:53am PT
I watched the President on Fox News. I wonder if the 34% of conservative republicans who believe Obama is a Muslim (2012 Pew research) would be willing to give Obama an academy award for his performance as a sincere christian tonight. (and if he's an atheist, he deserves an oscar as well)

Peace

Karl

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 17, 2012 - 10:37am PT
Gun control looks good on paper, but all it will really do is take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

Gun control doesn't mean taking all guns away, it's far more nuanced than that.

Broad generalizations like that are simply incorrect.


OUR President is handling this crisis honorably, I tip my cap to him.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 17, 2012 - 10:42am PT
Brandon, gun advocates use generalizations, sound bites and fear mongering.....nuanced, reasoned arguments are beyond them.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 17, 2012 - 10:45am PT
Gun advocates, or gun control advocates?

It seems to me that both camps wield the sword of fear mongering to serve their purposes.

The answer, IMHO, is in the middle.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Dec 17, 2012 - 10:47am PT
That's your agenda deluded interpretation, Ron.

Only Romney said no new legislation, despite passing a gun control law in MA.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 17, 2012 - 10:50am PT
Ron.....don't hold your breath and don't loose too much sleep- gun controls don't mean the feds are going to come to your door at midnight and confiscate your stash.
Grampa

climber
from SoCal
Dec 17, 2012 - 10:53am PT
I did not vote for our current President, but I must say President Obama did a very good job comforting that community and the nation.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Dec 17, 2012 - 11:09am PT
LOL, he did not.

He did say it was not a plan for 2012.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 17, 2012 - 11:11am PT
"Only Romney said no new legislation, despite passing a gun control law in MA."

Yet more, irrefutable, self-evident proof that Republicans are Wrong about Everything.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Dec 17, 2012 - 11:24am PT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/12/16/what-president-obama-said-about-gun-control-in-the-2012-campaign/

Of course, he said we should use the current laws. No where did he say we should not have new laws.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Dec 17, 2012 - 11:29am PT
Read the article again Ron, this time slowly.

Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced

You have very poor reading comprehension, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not read it at all.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 17, 2012 - 11:36am PT
Everybody's proud of their president...

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 17, 2012 - 11:55am PT
Yes Reilly-the dear leader. I wonder what percentage of the population in NK are "conditioned" enough to blindly worship him?
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Dec 17, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
obama's fine, and guns are flourishing.

meanwhile evil gets a pass

maybe harvard was on to something
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 17, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
He is an honorable man and a damn fine President.

Rong why do you keep opening your mouth your foot is already sufficiently wedged in.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 17, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
Ron, I doubt that they "feared" their guns....it's possible that they just didn't like them anymore.
Chinchen

climber
Way out there....
Dec 17, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
I too was moved and proud to hear my president speak compassionately and with conviction about the tragedy. Anyone who can not see and hear his heart for America is either deaf or a racist.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Dec 17, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
Count me among those proud of President Obama and his response to this tragedy. I think most posters on this board know that I am no Democrat, but I think his response was appropriate, reflected the mood of the nation, and showed leadership.

I resent, though, the idea that those hostile to his response are racist. The anti-gun lobby has added a lot of gun regulation into this event that could be read into the President's remarks, even though he said something far more profound. If there's hostility, it's probably to those who would read this case -- occurring in a state known for having some of the toughest firearm regulation in the country -- as a call for more firearms regulation.

As the President noted, this issue is far more complex than that. The attempt to transform this moment into a mere anti-firearm, let's-change-the-Second-Amendment moment misses the significance, nuance and difficulty of this issue. As the President said, we must change. How about listening to one another, giving those with whom we disagree credit for intelligence, and working through, rather than ignoring, Constitutional provisions?

John
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
hey,heres a thought,base said"we cant round up the mentally ill",why not draft legislation that says all guns must have liability insurance.if the gun does any criminal harm,its consequences would be covered by insurance, at least financially .let the insurance companies decide if you can own a gun,let the free market decide.i have to have liability insurance to work,and drive in my state.not for my gun though.insurance companies would screen potential owners,determine rates and effectively manage ownership.how could you folks on the right stop free enterprise?is it unconstitutional?more so than auto or contractors insurance?this would certainly curb alot of the nut jobs out there and maybe satisfy the 70% that do not own guns,and we all would not have to pay for the 30% that play guns. w/obama not a worshiper
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
the point is "rounding up the mentally ill".i am certain that you ron do not want the feds doing that.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
im okay w/you standing firm,i own a gun too,i did not say you are a nut,i said" it would curb some nut jobs"meaning the mentally ill would be screened.it is not all about you or me for that matter......
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:45pm PT
LEO status in the USFS via the USDA.

This pretty much explains everything, especially the inability to rationally express and support his core beliefs. I'm still trying to get a handle on his "Ban Climbing" analogy.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
ron,when i said "i am certain you ron do not want the feds doing that",i was not refering to your service or record,it was meant in response of your right leaning beliefs that gov should stay out of my life,.no offense intended.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 17, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
can only happy people own guns? let the free market decide.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 17, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
bvb got something against LEOs do ya?

Not especially. I went to FLETC in 1994. I was the Deputy Superintendent at Capitol Reef National Park for eight years. Supervised a few Chief Rangers here and there. Was the Agency Administrator for a Type I IMT during the 2002 Winter Olympics. Recruited 100 commissioned Rangers to do perimeter security at the alpine venues. And so on. Why do you ask?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jul 19, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
especially after what he said today.




ya ,i know ,how do you like me now?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 19, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
Couldn't agree more...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTb30JPAQQ

Proud!

.....

Right now actually looking forward to watching The Factor on Fox at 5pm to see how O'Reilly spins it.
losbill2

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
Proud too. He is a strong, solid leader.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
I've seen a drunk bvb carry on a casual 30+ min conversation with a JTree tool in the parking lot of Hidden Valley CG amidst chaos and several infractions occurring in the vicinity. He handles LEOs in his usual calm, cool demeanor.

BVB/Obama 2016!!!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
cragman your hipshot summary of the man
magnifies your weakness.

your's is an unsubstantiated and
emotionally charged generalization
aimed at not much more than
qualifying within your heart,
your political stance.

maybe some periphery aim
at trying to persuade others to join you
upon your pedestal.

hey, that's what we do, right?

mock thrive.
personal prowess based upon our own self-promoted delusion.

how's it feel?
you offered a harmful criticism
at an honest man.

maybe he doesn't share your religious dogma.
absolutely, he doesn't.

and neither do i.

but we, as mountain-miners
should be able to rise above the bullshite emotional minutia that
prevails within our media-dependent society.

you really believe he invites race-riots?

come on.
he makes social, political, and personal decisions
based upon his innate convictions.

why would he welcome race-riots?

your assessment is weak,
and made by you in your own weak moment.

hey, i have those, too.
weak moments.

let us learn from our weaknesses and strive towards strengths.

come on crag,
vote democrat in twentysixteen.

hah.
WBraun

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
Leaders lead by example.....Obama is not leading. He is pushing an agenda that will only lead to more division.

Cragman is 100% correct.

You drooling Obama sheep are stupid morons with no brains.

The only thing in your Obama sheep brains is stupid worms .....
WBraun

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
LOL ^^^ I like ...
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Wade Icey, your pathetic post is only meant to be inflammatory and childish in attempt to start yet a whole additional Stupidtopo pissing contest. Calling any POTUS a murderer while they are exercising the offices' main calling of protecting Americans is quite ludicrous.

Wise up....

Real classy.


etc...

Believe me, I get it Dean. For some it's religious fanatics taking over the government for some it's race riots....clowns are kind of scary too...
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
here let me show you how it looks, crag:

you fuking republicans don't give a shite about
your's or my offspring.

no you don't.
you care only for your own immediate satisfaction.
which happens to be based upon gross american excess,
fringed with minimal financial compensation
in an offsetting offer for your demand upon our finite resources.

you wanna drive big f*#king trucks because it suits you
and suggests to others a big organ;
but you don't want to pay for the fuel.

instead you wanna drill in pacifica, alaska, anywhere,
f*#ke the wild world, i want my big truck!

you build abodes that strip our land of it's beauty;
but you don't want to pay for it.

you want cheap goods,
but you don't vote for clean air standards.

f*#ke the children, let them sort out aweful horizons
reflecting your irresponsible and excessive exploitation of picture-perfect
forests.

....

you see, i just puked out an emotional and charged counter-argument,
which is a, most likely inaccurate generalization,
to meet your riot-initiated stance.

we've both bullshite on the souls of our.
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
Norwegian - not going to ask you to grow up and smell the coffee
or civilization that keeps you alive. Living the low info way suits eh?

btw god hates forests or he would not have invented forest fires.

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
It's like reverse MENSA ..

What a f*#king nightmare ..
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
awe heck crag,
lynard skynard wrote sweet home alabama
all f*#ked up.

does that mean the song don't pack a pleasing earful?

edit,
i challenge you out of respect.
you seem the type who can take on challenge.

that you are not a good man
would be a difficult argument to entertain.

you and me both are reflecting
our understanding upon others.
we merely are mirrors,
and should be upon gears
that turn.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
Excellent posts weeg. This country is in deep, deep denial about racism. We'd much rather pretend that the civil rights laws 50 years ago magically ended everything.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Look at all the whiteys fearing the "angry black man."

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
cragman again you assume inaccurately.
many people take me seriously.

maybe not on supertopo, but within tangible horizons.
and i aint no different out there, than i is here.

i got at it this morning at 12 am,
pushed the mouse and keys until 2 pm.
someone collected thousands of dollars on my input
(that constitute serious within a capitalistic economy)

now im sharpening up my saws and cleaning off of them
yesterday's endeavors
for tomorrow i've loads of snags to remove
at the local school, for free,
because im donating my resources
(they take me seriously when
a dead tree is poised over their cafeteria (we love to eat, eh?)

but before i cut trees at 7:30 i've to rise again
at midnight to design out some falsework 'neath the garage,

so these cans that im enjoying upon my steadfast efforts,
will haunt me at 11:45 pm, when the damn bells ring.

im just saying that obama is a good fella.
a good dad. and a good president.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Charles Barkley shows more wisdom than many.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-charles-barkley-george-zimmerman-verdict-20130719,0,6016207.story
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
Didya read the article, Cragman?

Barkley says Zimmerman racially profiled Martin. Maybe it's you who can learn something from Barkley.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:43pm PT

“There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs…There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public.”

-Booker T. Washington, 1911

More wisdom from another brother
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
rSin spewed
another great house niqqer!!!!!

Get the f*#k out dude. Seriously.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
Cragman, cute how you change racially profiled to just some racial profiling, like ok maybe just a little.

Barkley confirmed a lot about what Obama said today.

Nothing in Barkley's statement contradicted what Obama said today.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 19, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Cragman, get over your prejudices, your're bigger than that.....how can you possibly say there was no profiling????
Obama was poltically courageous....any white President could have done so much more easily.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
I'm pretty sure Zimmermann would have shot a white person who was on top of him, pounding his head into the sidewalk, too.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Cragman, quote the part in Barkley's statement that is in disagreement with what Obama said today.

Charles Barkley has never been one to shy away from controversy, and on Thursday he weighed in with his opinion on the George Zimmerman verdict.

“Well, I agree with the verdict,” Barkley told CNBC. “I feel sorry that young kid got killed, but they didn’t have enough evidence to charge him. Something clearly went wrong that night — clearly something went wrong — and I feel bad for anybody who loses a kid, but if you looked at the case and you don’t make it — there was some racial profiling, no question about it — but something happened that changed the dynamic of that night.”

Barkley added that because of the lack of evidence, he doesn't think that Zimmerman should go to jail "for the rest of his life."

“Mr. Zimmerman was wrong to pursue, he was racial profiling, but I think Trayvon Martin — God rest his soul — I think he did flip the switch and started beating the hell out of Mr. Zimmerman. But it was just a bad situation," Barkley said.

Barkley, 50, went on to express disappointment in what he perceived as racism in the media.

"I just feel bad because I don’t like when race gets out in the media because I don’t think the media has a ‘pure heart,’ as I call it,” Barkley said. “There are very few people who have a pure heart when it comes to race. Racism is wrong in any shape [or] form — there are a lot of black people who are racist, too. I think sometimes when people talk about race, they act like only white people are racist. There are a lot of black people who are racist. And I don’t like when it gets out there in the media because I don’t think the media has clean hands.”
WBraun

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Yer all racist drones.

NSA has been reading all your emails and phone conversations.

Ya all been exposed.

Snowden sent me the files from Russia with love.

He still has backdoor access to all of NSA.

Putin's gonna be the new POTUS.

Iron knuckles to you lazy American wankers.

Yer all gonna be working hard in the ditches ........

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
OK, so now it's what Obama did not say. LOL

Didn't you hear this statement:

Now this isn't to say the african american community is naive, about the fact that african american young men are disproportionally involved in the criminal justice system, that they're disproportionally both victims and perpetrators of violence.

Doesn't sound one sided to me.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Now this isn't to say the african american community is naive, about the fact that african american young men are disproportionally involved in the criminal justice system, that they're disproportionally both victims and perpetrators of violence.

Really, one sided?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
both are guilty of refusing to use their bully pulpit in the interest of furthering justice for the cheap pat on the back of the establishment they dont want to ruffle
Yet those two wise black men are the ones who are (or were) out there in public for everyone to see. For the sake of cooling heads off, better them than a Sharpton.
WBraun

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
Obumer is a leader?

All he does is run his mouth.

When is he gonna lead on the battlefield?

Those modern POTUS just sit in a chair and run their mouths .....
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 19, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
Well, Obama has pissed off the mouth breathing peckerwoods, Werner, so he's got that going for him.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
inflame people the way Obama did today.

The only people inflamed are angry, right-wing, white, racism denialists like yourself.

But you have already shown yourself to be a bigot.

Wake the fook up. America is an incredibly racist country.
WBraun

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
Wake the fook up. America is an incredibly racist country.


Dirtbag just claimed he's a racist .....

I was right :-)
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:39pm PT

Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) Classification Scheme

Stage 1 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Early symptoms include subtle, low level criticisms of Obama's "leadership" abilities. A simple understanding of separation of powers and what Obama can/can not do is enough to reverse most ailments.

Stage 2 Obama Derangement Syndrome
At this stage, attacks on the President begin to take on a nonsensical element such as criticism of Obama playing Golf, taking a vacation with his family, or eating mustard on his hamburger. The tone used by stage 2 sufferers mimics that of a gossip tabloid or an unhappy teenager's blog.

Stage 3 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As the disease progresses, deeply held anger, resentment, and fear manifests itself. Those afflicted with ODS-3 are unable to call the President by his name. They use incendiary monikers such as Barry, Obummer, Zero. The derangement begins to branch out to Obama's family. Even mentioning Michelle Obama's campaign to encourage healthy lifestyles is enough to cause hysterical fits of rage.

Stage 4 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Opposition to Obama becomes not just predictable, but a force of habit. Those afflicted use phrases like, "Anyone but Obama." The diseased begin to take any position, so long as it is not Obama's position. They begin to mock ideas like "hope" and "change" as naive, simply because Obama embodies them.


Stage 5 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As stage 5 ODS sets in, the assaults on the President's character begin to imply he is evil at his core. The development of conspiracies that suggest Obama is knowingly executing an agenda that will harm America are commonplace. Questions like, "Is Obama A Bigger Threat Than Al Qaeda?" and "Obama: A Radical Leftist Who Seeks To Dismantle Capitalism?" are common place.

Stage 6 Obama Derangement Syndrome
This stage is mostly reserved for birthers and bigots. People who have developed ODS-6 are offended by Barack Obama's very existence. The subtle racial undertones, kept concealed in the previous stages of the disease, can no longer be contained. They find it impossible to believe that a black man could be elected President of "their" country, despite the overwhelming evidence that the President was born in America.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
Every time President Obama does something clearly correct and for the betterment of America , the extreme “right” and other anti-Americans go ballistic and try to change the subject and divert attention to another subject. It’s pretty clever and a very effective tactic for an enemy. Sorry Bozos and non-patriots, it won’t work; America is much stronger than that, as our President has said.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
Obama circle jerk
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
I'm still waiting for him to quit campaigning and actually start doing his friggin job.

One more "I didn't know" or "It was Bush's fault" and I'm gonna puke.

I really wish I had voted for Hillary like my wife did...at least that crazy post-menopausal whackjob would DO SOMETHING other than tour the world and pretend he didn't know what was happening!

Obama is a LAZY FUK!
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
first Kansan-Kenyan president ever! not sure that he's black, but I don't care. Better than the alternatives
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jul 19, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
We need to remember that Obama would never have "been Trayvon". Our great leader lived a pampered life while attending the prestigious Punahou school . Tuition $19,200.

That is $19K after you grease the wheels to even be considered for admission. I bet Barry did not wear his hoody to his admission interview.

Worst president ever and no my opinion of Barry does NOT make me a racist. I feel the same way about Bush. I despise all lying, cheating politicians regardless of race.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Jul 20, 2013 - 12:01am PT
Worst president ever and no my opinion of Barry does NOT make me a racist. I feel the same way about Bush.

there can only be one worst president ever. I'll give you a hint: it's not Obama.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jul 20, 2013 - 12:04am PT
^^^ Ok close 2nd
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 20, 2013 - 12:05am PT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jul 20, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Guess you do not have to be the POTUS to press an agenda.^^^^^^

Still Very Proud.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 20, 2013 - 10:03am PT
ekat, really?! you were not impressed with Obama's chat yesterday? how could this be? oh my...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 20, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Right,

offering up his personal perspective like that - esp taking into account his own "set of experiences" as a young black - was "unpresidented." I thought his timing was perfect. I thought he was articulate, his ideas worthy, and I identified or empathized with pretty much everything he said. I'm glad he stepped up as pres and shared his views with the public on this important national matter. I give him an A grade on this one!

Others may disagree. ;)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 20, 2013 - 10:31am PT
yeah, unpresidented but very presidential

hail to the chief! :)
Deekaid

climber
Jul 20, 2013 - 11:18am PT
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I don't even play basketball and I have a better shot than him.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 20, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
one of his better moments for sure.



CANT tell the diff.

which is exactly why nobody gives a sh#t about your views or opinions.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 20, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Barkley added that he “feels bad” that the trial gave “every white person and black person who is racist the platform to vent their ignorance. That’s the thing that bothered me the most. I watched this trial closely. I watched these people on television talking about it. A lot of these people have a hidden agenda. They want to have their racist views, whether they are white or black… Their biases come out.”
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 20, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
It's sad to see some good folks here consumed by hate for the President, which I suspect is mostly because he's not conservative like them.

It's interesting to see his words twisted or go right over the head of some people. He talked mainly about how the black community views this situation and why some people are so upset.

If their roles were reversed it's likely many things would have happened differently from the confrontation, to the investigation, to the trial. If you can't admin that you are dishonest with yourself.

I really think some people can just turn off their empathy for other groups when it suits their needs. That's bigotry. Not racism but bigotry. Being so convinced that you are right about everything that your are blind to what other people think and experience. I see it from some on the far left, but from almost everyone on the right.

He's not my favorite president of all time, but Obama's got much bigger balls than any of his detractors here.
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Jul 20, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
Wow, is anyone paying attention? It's impressive how easily you are amused, so I say again for possible penetration.....

"I do not recall ever, as an adult, failing to be mystified whenever I encounter another adult expressing confidence in politicians – confidence either in an individual politician (say, confidence in Ronald Reagan or in Barack Obama) or confidence in politicians as a group. Successful politicians – and particularly those who are successful on national stages – are, with exceptions too few to matter, master con artists.

Whatever is the reason why so many grown people respect holders of political office is, as it has always been, beyond my comprehension. I just don’t get it. Practitioners of no other profession are accorded more honor, respect, and (most importantly) power while at the same time being held to such low standards of ethical behavior. Actions that, when committed by the family dog, properly elicit scolding or muzzling or even eviction from the premises are, when committed by an elected official, greeted with oohs, aahhs, applause, and re-election to powerful office.

I cannot encounter a politician’s image or words without being repulsed. Nor can I encounter any of the incessant instances of publicly expressed admiration and respect for politicians without being (on good days) befuddled or (on most days) sickened."

Get outdoors and have a wonderful day!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 20, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jul 20, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-howard/no-justice-no-peace-what-_b_3593307.html

We must work for both: To fix a broken justice system and a to fix the broken peace within our hearts and within our communities.

A lack of justice and a lack of peace is a call for action on two different fronts. This means organizing to change dangerous laws like the "Stand Your Ground" and the "Stop and Frisk" policies as well as heartless gun laws in our country. But it also means working to restore peace on an individual level. This is reaching out to those who are hurting. Preaching and writing about this not only prophetically, but also pastorally. It's working not only to change laws, but to change a culture that is far too violent in the first place. It's not only ensuring that the taking of black life is prosecuted just the same as when a white life is lost, but it is working to build a beloved community in which no lives are lost to unnecessary violence. Change laws, get guns off of the street, and change our culture.


I don't like the verdict, but I support our system of laws and justice. If it is broken then there will not be peace. Lack of peace does not equate to violence, please recall.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 20, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Boarding up the windows in June Lake in anticipation of racial apocalypse...
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 20, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
More wisdom from another brother

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/romany-malco/a-message-to-trayvon-mart_b_3612231.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopularhttp://"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/romany-malco/a-message-to-trayvon-mart_b_3612231.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopularhttp://[/url]
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 10, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
I can't believe I'm the only one...
PROUD of my president and his leadership tonight!

I hope all of you saw his speech regarding Syria this evening. If not, YT it.

Persuasive. Disciplined. Thoughtful.

Thank you, Mr. President. :)
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 10, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
saw it, I agree.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Sep 10, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
Really??????????

That was the speech to justify the third Middle Eastern Quagmire War in a decade????

I think not.



fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 10, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
Yes, what a wise puppet.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
wow...

nice to see the political theater is working perfectly, keeping y'all occupied and polarized on everything but the real issues, and totally distracted from who really rules this country and the world...

personally, i think the new pope is showing much more leadership than the big O...
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
This Syria thing better not mess up the Oh-Man's next set of vacation plans.

Not like we hired him to actually do anything about the home front.

On the other hand - nothing like Miley Cyrus and another lost cause war to distract us from the NSA, IRS, Unemployment, Debt Ceiling, Immigration Reform, Farm Bill...........

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:13pm PT

paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
well for starters while you are all arguing about the moral side of the war he calls it like it is...

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Sep-08/230448-pope-hits-out-at-war-to-sell-arms-in-syria-prayers.ashx#axzz2eYCCvMgQ

and the jury seems to be out on condoms - can't seem to find much newer than these..

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/popes-condom-views-impact-aids-work/story?id=18723310
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
I like that he took a public stance against the escalating powers of executive vs legislative branches. I'm not sure how the words reconcile with the legal changes in security-related laws that authorize broader presidential powers, whether there will be changes that reign in presidential powers, and whether the public stance is enough to create public pressure that limits the exercise of power by future presidents.

I like that he is drawing a very firm line, showing that without a doubt we are ready to act with force but letting a continuum of diplomacy exist up until that brink to maximize the chance of force not being necessary. Maybe it's not respectful to characterize the relationship between US and Syrian governments in terms of a parent-child relationship, but the actions Obama laid out are very much like what a good parent would do to establish boundaries with an unruly child.

I don't like the circumstantial nature of the evidence linking Assad to the gas attacks, with no attempt to counter the fears that it could be another government or agency that is framing Assad to alter the outcome of the local power struggle (i.e. get US public support to justify US force that weakens Assad and enables other forces to win where they might not have done so without US involvement). All the circumstantial evidence stated against Assad can be explained by other things (e.g. Assad's soldiers need gas masks if they have intel that the rebels will use gas either against Assad or trying to frame Assad; just issuing gas masks is not at all indicative of culpability in a complex conflict).

The fact that Obama specifically said he would respond to concerns he has heard, and did not mention this one which should be the mother of all concerns when deciding whether or not to attack Assad, well it sets off my conspiracy alarm bells. Makes it seem like a ploy to get people sick of war to accept another one. Just by bluntly and directly confronting the concern that it might not be Assad's side directing the use of chemical weapons, and by having more explicit evidence proving Assad's culpability, well that would have dramatically raised my commitment to the cause.


Edit: After Obama stated so clearly what is wrong with chemical weapons (doesn't distinguish between enemy combatant and infants) and that violating this boundary is justification for using force to remove another government's ability to use these weapons, maybe this would be a good time for land mine activists to confront Obama and put pressure for USA to sign treaties that ban all landmine uses:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/03/us-arms-landmines-idUSBRE8B20KR20121203
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Treaty

This is the best my limited googling found about US landmine policy today:
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/wra/c11735.htm
(basically, advocating short-term landmines that would not pose "long-term" threats. Still, during war and immediate aftermath, they don't care weather victim is a solider or a toddler. And corporations that make them get even more money if they expire in short term without use, boosting overall production of landmines, and the potential for "use it or lose it" mentality of expiring mines that need to get used up.

Edit edit: I voted for Obama twice.

paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
how come we didn't care when saddam gassed the kurds, but now its an issue in syria ?

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran

meanwhile our nation's infrastructure crumbles, we are building prisons instead of schools, and arming the local police with military grade weaponry.

methinks rome's getting ready to fall, and the ruling elite are much more aware of what's about to happen than any of us. see also nsa and the hoard of lies on that one in the past few months...

yeah....proud...this is so f*#king bigger than any one man or party...

but let's keep arguing !! it helps them and hurts us ;-)
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
It's the End of the World as we know it.
And I feel fine.




Re- Military PoPo

Just found out this weekend that my local PD now owns a tank.
A freekin TANK!
Somehow Barney Fife decided they needed a TANK to do their job.
And somehow our local City Council approved this purchase.
So now we have a TANK - true, it has six wheels instead of tracks and only shoots gas out it's snout - but it's the coolest thing to see them ram down a door to serve a traffic ticket bench warrant!!!!!!!


The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:02am PT
You guys need to learn how to post links without blowing out the page. Super annoying when trying to view on a small screen.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:08am PT
sully, thanks!

“He fell in October 1918, on a day that was so quiet and still on the whole front, that the army report confined itself to the single sentence: All quiet on the Western Front. He had fallen forward and lay on the earth as though sleeping. Turning him over one saw that he could not have suffered long; his face had an expression of calm, as though almost glad the end had come.”
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:30am PT
I think Maureen Dowd pretty much nailed it:

Obama cried over the children of Newtown. He is stricken, as he said in his address Tuesday, by “images of children writhing in pain and going still on a cold hospital floor” from “poison gas.” He thought — or thought he thought — that avenging the gassing was the right thing to do. But W., once more haunting his successor’s presidency, drained credibility, coffers and compassion.

While most Americans shudder at the news that 400 children have been killed by a monster, they recoil at the Middle East now; they’ve had it with Shiites vs. Sunnis, with Alawites and all the ancient hatreds. Kerry can bluster that “we’re not waiting for long” for Assad to cough up the weapons, but it will be hard for him to back it up, given that a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll indicates that Joe Sixpack is now a peacenik; in 2005, 60 percent of Republicans agreed with W. that America should foster democracy in the world; now only 19 percent of Republicans believe it.

W., Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld launched a social engineering scheme to change the mind-set in the Middle East about democracy and the mind-set at home about the post-Vietnam reluctance to be muscular about imposing our values through war. They did manage to drastically change the mind-set in the Middle East and at home, but in the opposite way than they intended.

In a crouch after 9/11, the country was happy to punish an Arab villain, even the wrong one. That mass delusion, plus the economic vertigo, has sent Americans into a permanent crouch. And that’s too bad.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:34am PT
It's time to take a knee, Barry.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:26am PT
--removed post because in hindsight political threads are pretty much not about dialogue as much as mud slinging. Sorry I tried.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:37am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:47am PT
For all Obama's talk of Hitler, Assad is not even as bad as Saddam Hussein. Unlike Assad, Hussein gassed his neighbors, as well as his own people.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:08am PT
What does Israel have to worry about? Israel has nukes. They'll never lose a war with Syria.

You seem to be making a good case for Bush's war against Iraq.

jghedge + Obama = NeoCon.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:13am PT
jghedge writes:

"We have nukes too. So why not just eliminate our military?
Someone launches a chemical attack on Manhattan - no problem! We have nukes!"






So if you have a screwdriver, you'll never need a wrench.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:47am PT
So if Maureen Dowd says it's Bush's fault that we are not taking military action, shouldn't the antiwar factions be praising Bush for a long term legacy of keeping us out of wars?

I mean, if it is Bush's fault...
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:54am PT
For all Obama's talk of Hitler, Assad is not even as bad as Saddam Hussein. Unlike Assad, Hussein gassed his neighbors, as well as his own people.

This is true. We were quite willing to look the other way with Saddam as long as he was tying up Iran in a long and bloody war. Saddam used chemical weapons on the Iranians (as well as the Kurds in his own country).

It is now very apparent that trying to "fix things" in that part of the world is dangerous. We always seem to be facing unintended consequences.

Kuwait was the only good military action that we have taken in the middle east. Reagan put the marines in Lebanon where 243 marines were killed by a truck bomb. He pulled them out immediately.

If Obama had done this, there would be accusations of "Cut and run."

I have a buddy who was a marine that arrived in Lebanon 24 hours after that attack during the Reagan administration.

The idea that we would be greeted as liberators in Baghdad was short lived.

I missed the first part of Obama's speech last night, but I did hear him finally say that the U.S. can't be the world's policeman.

Amen to that.

Just consider us leaving Afghanistan and Iraq after the first 12 to 24 months. Would these places be better off than if we had wasted ten years and thousands of lives on both sides trying to install our form of democracy?

We wasted all of those lives, have so many injured soldiers, and also many, many, innocent people dead. Why do we think that we can turn those people into little Thomas Jefferson's? They are less than a century from riding camels and fighting tribe to tribe.

Nation building was a big mistake. We should have just kicked the Taliban's butt and left. Either way, they are going to take control again when we leave Afghanistan.

Obama has disappointed me by taking so long to get out of there. He also took up too many of Bush's bad habits and ran with them.

The world needs some peace and quiet. Civil wars, such as Syria, are a quagmire with no clear outcome. It isn't like, say, France during WWII.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Sully, Catch 22 is an awesome book about the absurdity of war. The movie is great, but the book is a must read. Hilarious.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:16pm PT
Context:

President Obama today delivered a eulogy for state Senator Clementa Pinckney, who was one of nine victims in the June 17, 2015, shooting at the EAM Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

Eulogy closing...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN05jVNBs64

How unique and special is that?

A great leader. A brilliant and gifted human being.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:24pm PT
Obama flat kicks ass!
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
I agree HFCS. Think about where we were in 2008. I think the events of the last several weeks could make his last 18 months in office more effective than the last 6 1/2 years.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
Our leader.

Proud.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
Historic.
Proud.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
i've not a faith bone in my body. i'm a secular humanist through and through.

but when I watched our great president busted out Amazing Grace I got chills (well, not exactly chills since its kinda hot 'round these parts).

But dang.... what an amazing man. So fortunate he came out of almost nowhere to take over the rainbow house.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
But he is black!

no, he is only half white

and Muslim

and born in Kenya
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
no, not just any kind of Muslim. He's an Atheist Muslim. Biiiiiiiiig diff.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 26, 2015 - 05:57pm PT
not positive, but I think he connected with the audience.

Our leader is a great man, very proud of him.
10b4me

Social climber
Jun 26, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
I have come to the conclusion that all of this rabid brain loss over Obama is because he is black.

+1

Something I find ironic,is that Anthony Kennedy was nominated to the Supreme Court by the republican God, Ronnie raygun.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 26, 2015 - 07:58pm PT
Stop deceiving yourselfs and lying in public.

If you all are gonna hail your beloved president, you should atleast show him the do respect and know the truth to who he hails. To who he calls his savior.

You don't have no use for truth though, do ya Norton?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 26, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
Judge not Norton lest thee be judged...Norton's punishment awaits...
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID
Jun 26, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
Word.
Following over here, Boss.....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 26, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
If you all are gonna hail your beloved president, you should atleast show him the do respect and know the truth to who he hails. To who he calls his savior.

That would be Jesus Christ, someone not well known to you, apparently.
o-man

Social climber
Paia,Maui,HI
Jun 26, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
I can't remember being so touched and PROUD as I am today after hearing our presidents presentation in Charleston!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 26, 2015 - 09:19pm PT
heres a 3 minute clip of what "the rest of the world" thinks about your precious president:

Uh... Don't I remember about three zillion posts from you saying words to the effect of "Who gives a f*#k what those ragheads in the Middle East think. We should just worry about what's happening here in the US."

But I guess since your pres is now a gay-lover, you've seen the light and believe that what people in the Middle East think is what's really important.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 26, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
Our president rong, ours.

That means
yours too.

Enjoy the
love.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 26, 2015 - 10:11pm PT
Nice to see that Ron allows that he no longer identifies with the Country of America, and looks to the Muslim community to find his guidance.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 26, 2015 - 10:16pm PT
Yes rong,
give us
more.

Where was your
diligence when
"your" president
was running
our country
into the
ground?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 26, 2015 - 10:22pm PT
If you say so.

Embrace the
love bro.

Duck dynasty
wannabes
unite.

Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID
Jun 27, 2015 - 07:31am PT
D-Know is wise. Cheers, BroMan.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 27, 2015 - 08:52am PT
He is a great President and I will miss him deeply when he is gone.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 27, 2015 - 09:23am PT
Why would anybody consider the opinion of a member of an extremist, bigoted, anti-government militia group? These guys are to the right of 99.999% of the population. Walmart tunnels, indeed.
Urizen

Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
Jun 27, 2015 - 09:28am PT
Dog, I never knew that a president could be impeached for wearing sandals. And you say Nixon wore even less? Scary.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 27, 2015 - 10:08am PT
Thank You President Obama for working so hard to keep church separated from state!

Thanks even more for showing us all what's most important in your life.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

God Bless Mr Obama for being a wonderful Christian and our representative to the secular world!
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
I am so NOT proud of our president. Sold us down the river he did, him and his cronies. TPP passed. Kiss your ass goodbye, and your childrens as well. While he was singing Amazing Grace, he was giving you the ole look over here, while I bend you over and like it trick..
http://rinf.com/alt-news/newswire/king-obama-royal-court-tpp/
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2015 - 03:30pm PT
I am very happy that both houses of congress debated and passed the new Trade Bill.
And President Obama was right to sign it, while no legislation is perfect, this is good.

From that capitalist Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/06/26/the-beneficiaries-of-tpp-and-free-trade-agreements-are-the-poor/

But since ChrisMac has said he does not really want any new political threads, well ok
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 27, 2015 - 03:41pm PT
It was all about preaching to the choir... while putting off many others. A rousing civil rights speech, full victims and culprits. Takes a lot of gall to use such an honor in such an opportunistic way. Well done, Mr. President!

No doubt his fans loved it. Reminds me of his Cairo speech in 2009. Supporters were overjoyed at his performance. “A new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world, one based on mutual interest and mutual respect”. What a visionary. Since then, changes in the Arab world have exceeded our expectations.

Bravo.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 27, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:00pm PT
You're lost, Edward. Lost. Gall? Wow, you must be getting news filtered through some talk show yakker.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
Yes gall, Crankster you tool. He sold us all down the river. Money now will control everything in our nation, not voters. Sold us out, lock, stock, and barrel. Maybe you are to ignorant to realize it yet, but its happened. Republican, Democrat, makes no difference, its all a show now for stooges like you, because its out of our hands, and into the hands of multinational corporations. Buy American? Its illegal now to say it FYI.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
I hate when that happens to you Locker,
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
Nice "news" source there studly. Great place to find all the conspira-babble.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
Main stream media is not reporting on it Dirt moron.. try googling it if you are not happy with the source. Are you saying its not passed or something? Or are you just trying to not address the issue? Why don't you go sing Amazing Grace or something instead of getting in over your head..

[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Alex jones, lol.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
I'm saying your source is paranoia-fueled horsesh#t.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 05:36pm PT
Locker, I just returned from 3 weeks overseas, as I travel the globe frequently. and I can tell you that what you state is not the feeling or thoughts anywhere that I am aware of. The exact opposite in fact.
Crankster, keep stroking yourself, it suits you.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2015 - 05:44pm PT
Latest PewResearch Polling Positive:


Globally, Obama’s image is mostly positive. Across the 40 countries polled, a median of 65% say they have confidence in Obama to do the right thing in world affairs. A median of just 27% lack confidence in the American leader. Overall, Obama remains much more popular globally than his predecessor, but opinions vary significantly across nations and regions.

Western Europeans are still big Obama fans. Even as a presidential candidate, Obama was popular among Europeans, famously addressing a large crowd in Berlin in July 2008. When Obama entered the White House, his ratings were extremely high, and they’ve only slipped a little since then. At least a majority has confidence in him in each Western European country surveyed. Still, there is disappointment with Obama in the region on certain issues, such as climate change.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 27, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
If you're seriously posting Infowars as your source for information, Stud, I think our discussion is over.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
I'm not asking you to believe me Locker, I'm telling you my experience. Also polling Western Europe is kind of like polling California, very similiar. It is no representation of how the rest of the world thinks.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
I was in Vietnam and mainland China on my regular business trip there. I heard on the main Chinese news that the TPP passed. I returned here last night and all I hear about is Gay marriage, the confederate flag, and rainbow lights over the White House. Very strange?
I hear ya Werner!

Edit: Backpedaling? WTF? All you can handle, and a little more!
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
yes.... backpedaling are you?
Do you know where the brakes are?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 06:42pm PT
You might check a map Locker, but I will answer the question for you. No, it does not. Didn't your mamma tell you to study harder in school? hey, if you're going to picture El Cap Tom giving a blowjob to somebody, i can't cut you any slack.
Did you have some requirement for bordering Europe or were we talking about the world? I travel Europe extensively also, it just so happens I returned from Asia last night. Whats your point?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
I didn't miss it, I just added to it.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
I wanted to go climbing, but ended up mostly working and surfing. I did find this crag that I intend to explore next time I am in the area. Looks promising.


I got a bunch of really cool old ships wheels and anchors.

Nice little surf break for the morning sess
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 07:27pm PT

another nearby unexplored crag

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
Just like anywhere, keep in on the down low, and usually no problems. But if I'm blatantly trespassing across someones property and a foreigner to boot, I will probably get called on it by the owner just like here.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 27, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
Studly, after watching the Alex Jones video, I am no closer to understanding your anger over the passing of the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

He seems convinced that this means that an "Asian Union" will be merged with the "North American Union" and the "European Union" and that everyone in the world will soon be a slave, ruled by the senior executives of four or five large banks.

I assume by "North American Union" he means the NAFTA agreement, and by "European Union" he means what we all call the EU. If that's correct, I don't understand how he (and you) get from NAFTA and the EU to slavery for the masses.

Sorry if this comes across as a bit snarky, but I really am interested in hearing your (or somebody's) explanation of how the TPP is the final nail in the coffin of freedom.

Like you, my work requires me to travel a lot to Asia and Europe. I also spend all day, everyday, working with Asians and Europeans (and North Americans). And not once have I ever heard any of them even hint at any of the things you and Alex Jones are talking about. For all of the people I work with and interact with, freer global trade is a benefit, not a pathway to slavery.

So, if you are willing, can you explain your fear?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 10:01pm PT
The collapse of the dollar.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 27, 2015 - 10:05pm PT
Ghost... Not sure if it's true but i read TPP was going to outsource more American jobs...?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 27, 2015 - 10:12pm PT
The TPP is for large corporations, not for you and I.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 27, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
^^^ well beyond that, big corporations will no longer have to describe their intensions. Kinda like the "don't ask, don't tell" the military used in the issues of being "gay".

It's giving big corps. more power.

When did free trade EVER help America's poor??
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 27, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
"For all of the people I work with and interact with, freer global trade is a benefit..." -Ghost

I like to read Thomas Friedman. I think he would agree with you...

We may be back to traditional geopolitics, but it’s in a much more interdependent world, where our economic clout is still a source of restraint on Moscow and Beijing. Putin doesn’t disguise his military involvement in Ukraine for nothing; he’s afraid of more U.S. banking sanctions. China doesn’t circumscribe its behavior in the South China Sea for nothing; it can’t grow without exporting to America. It’s not just our guns; it’s our butter. It’s why we should be expanding U.S.-shaped free-trade deals with Asia and Europe, and it’s why the most important source of stability in the world today is the health of the U.S. economy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/opinion/cold-war-without-the-fun.html?smid=tw-TomFriedman&seid=auto&_r=1
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 27, 2015 - 11:09pm PT
It's giving big corps. more power.

When did free trade EVER help America's poor??

It might interest you to know that 'small cap' corps are defined as being between $300 million
and $2 billion. BwaHaHaHa!

As to your latter non sequitur I'll reply with one: quite often! Sounds like you would feel right
at home in Greece, Argentina, or Venezuela.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 27, 2015 - 11:13pm PT

It’s not just our guns; it’s our butter. It’s why we should be expanding U.S.-shaped free-trade deals with Asia and Europe,

That's a big fat terd! So were banking our power on America's want, and ABILITY to buy a bunch of cheap junk? News flash! The rest of the world is catching up on junk consumerism. And whose gonna keep you in the dark dungeon till your Anorexic? Our top 1%, who BTW aren't even American.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 28, 2015 - 09:10am PT
Isn't all the property in China owned by the 'people'?
jstan

climber
Jun 28, 2015 - 10:21am PT
I read that the free trade agreement we negotiated and the subsidies for corn production in the US have made the farming of corn in Mexico uneconomic. Increased immigration has been one result. And increasingly we are finding that the presence of corn products in all of our foods is having unfortunate health effects.

Predicting the unexpected consequences of actions is extremely difficult and there are always unexpected consequences. This makes it really important for there to be unimpeded conversations both in the general public and in our legislatures.

Intellectual constipation could easily be the death of us.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 28, 2015 - 10:53am PT

the US have made the farming of corn in Mexico uneconomic.

Think it's more of a moral issue. Turning corn into fuel has drove the price to where the poor can't even afford tortillas.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 28, 2015 - 12:19pm PT

increasingly we are finding that the presence of corn products in all of our foods is having unfortunate health effects.

The root to these unfortunate health effects isn't the corn itself. Its what science is doing with it in their manipulation of the cells. Lets be fair in giving credit where credit is due :)

In the contemporary process, corn (maize) is milled to produces corn starch and an "acid-enzyme" process is used in which the corn starch solution is acidified to begin breaking up the existing carbohydrates, and then enzymes are added to further metabolize the starch and convert the resulting sugars to fructose.[18]:808-813 The first enzyme added is alpha-amylase which turns breaks the long chains down into shorter sugar chains – oligosaccharides. Glucoamylase is mixed in and converts them to glucose; the resulting solution is filtered to remove protein, then using activated carbon, and then demineralized using Ion-exchange resins. The purified solution is then run over immobilized xylose isomerase, which turns the sugars to ~50–52% glucose with some unconverted oligosaccharides, and 42% fructose (HFCS 42), and again demineralized and again purified using activated carbon. Some is processed into HFCS 90 by liquid chromatography, then mixed with HFCS 42 to form HFCS 55. The enzymes used in the process are made by microbial fermentation.[16]:20-22[18]:808-813
wiki
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jun 28, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
^^^
All of the processes and enzymes mentioned above are naturally occurring in the human body except for the filtering, which all done with inert materials

Lets be fair in giving credit where credit is due. The problem is that people just eat too god damn much.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 28, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
yeah but like that of hydrodgenated oils, the process is done at 900deg. which essentially turns corn,soybeans, etc to poison which the body can't relate;(
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jun 28, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
...to poison which the body can't relate
I'm an organic chemist. San Jose State University class of 1983.

Please describe the process and poisons which you describe. Specific formulas to back up your claim.

Please.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 28, 2015 - 02:51pm PT
High fructose corn syrup = poison

Dont need to be a chemist to figure that one out!
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jun 28, 2015 - 03:19pm PT
High fructose corn syrup = sugar

Nothing more, nothing less.

Water will kill you if you drink too much of it. Does that mean water is poison?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 28, 2015 - 03:19pm PT
from Scientific American,

In November 2013 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration made the welcome, belated determination that partially hydrogenated oils—the primary source of trans fats—could no longer be “generally regarded as safe.” At press time, the ruling is preliminary but expected to become permanent. If it does, it will virtually eliminate industrially produced trans fats in the U.S, saving thousands of lives every year, with minimal cost to industry.

It's well documented that these heat altered oils are primary to the causes of heart disease, strokes, blood clotting, high blood pressure, etc, etc.

i have seen the science that shows the chemical breakdown that happens when these vegestable's are cooked at very high heat, and why the body is nolonger able to break them down. but i cant find it this minute.

On the other end of the spectrum, Extra virgin olive oil is cold processed and is very good for the body, as is avacodo oil:)
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jun 28, 2015 - 03:21pm PT
It's well documented ...

Thank you for that insightful prose. I agree with what you said.

But I asked you about sugars and you're telling me about fats. Their chemistry is dissimilar.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 28, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
here you go this is easier for me:)

[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jun 28, 2015 - 03:46pm PT


Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 28, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
HFCS and regular sugar are very similar, 64 or so on hte glycemic index. There are sweeteners that are much lower on the glycemic index (lower is better). Agave nectar comes in at 15
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 1, 2015 - 04:26am PT
BLUEBLOCR, I enjoyed those videos. But they didn't address your statement about how processing HFCS makes "poisons."

The videos did, however, confirm my previous statement, that HFCS isn't bad for you. What is bad for you is eating too god damn much sugar.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jul 1, 2015 - 10:12am PT
Bullsh#t. Big difference between eating honey and high fructose corn syrup. So in that vein, you think no real difference between GMO's and real food either? Well then load up on that sh#t. Pesticide can't hurt you either, so why eat organic for that matter.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2015 - 10:55am PT
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, your beloved leader is selling us down the river:

TISA Exposed: 'Holy Grail' of Leaks Reveals Detailed Plot for Corporate Takeover
Fifty-two-nation Trade in Services Agreement uses trade regulations 'as a smokescreen to limit citizen rights'

Referencing the Trade Promotion Authority bill signed by President Barack Obama on Monday—which will allow Obama to ram the TISA, TPP, and TTIP through Congress with minimal input from lawmakers—Cohen added: "Today's leaks...reveal once again how dangerous Fast Track authority is when it comes to protecting citizen rights vs. corporate rights. This TISA text again favors privatization over public services, limits governmental action on issues ranging from safety to the environment using trade as a smokescreen to limit citizen rights... TISA is as big a blow to our rights and freedom as the Trans Pacific Partnership and in both cases our governments secrecy is the key enabler."

This is very serious stuff...
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:02am PT
I don't think this President can "ram" anything through this Congress, k-man.

John
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:07am PT
John,
Normally I would say you're right, Obama can't ram anything through congress.

Except this time, when this is exactly what the corporate-owned GOP wants.

Remember, for Fast-Track, it was the Dems who needed to be courted.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:08am PT
The TPP has not passed, it has only passed fast track

They needed this to pass first to finish the work on the trade bill.

It will come up again for a pass or fail vote,
maybe by then, we won't have a Republican Congress that will sell this Nation out.

There is No way this would pass if we had 51 Democratic Senators and a majority in the House; this bill is a Republican gift from God, and the President just got sucked into the scam by his corporate Conservative advisors.

Unless!
It is actually a good bill, and we just haven't read the good parts yet.

But like any other Republican scam, you have to pass it first to see what's in it.

Vote all Republicans out, they have sold us out and have nothing but more destruction of our Country for profit.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:13am PT
Unless!
It is actually a good bill, and we just haven't read the good parts yet.

Why do I feel that if there were "good parts," they would have published those for us to see?

Why all the secrecy?
dirtbag

climber
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:18am PT
Normally negotiations for anything in government are secret until the final product is ready for review.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:19am PT
We're not hearing much about the Iran talks, either.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:19am PT
... the President just got sucked into the scam by his corporate Conservative advisors.

First he's smart, now he's a sucker.

No, I think this is exactly what he wanted to do.

Don't get me wrong, I think Obama is the best "liberal" president we're had for quite some time. But Clinton passed NAFTA, and now we have another Dem in power who is pushing the can even farther down the road.

Good cop, bad cop. They all work for the corporations, from what I see.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:22am PT
Why do I feel that if there were "good parts," they would have published those for us to see?

Why all the secrecy?

I can't answer for Craig, but my own experience in 36 years of negotiating is that the give-and-take of negotiation does poorly when all of it is public. There's a reason the law makes settlement discussions privileged and not subject to introduction as evidence.

International trade almost always benefits both parties, as long as neither party is allowed to put their thumb on the scales. It is not a zero-sum game, any more than the economy as a whole is a zero-sum game, because specialization is productive.

The problem is that what constitutes "putting a thumbon the scale" depends on the viewpoint of the observer. What we might consider legitimate aid (for example, subsidizing sustainable energy technology, or providing financing for buyers of U. S. goods) could be viewed as cheating by a seller whose government does not provide those benefits.

Similarly, I wouldn't want to compete against a manufacturer whose government allows that manufacturer to pollute without charge or limit, or that allows that manufacturer to employ labor in oprressive conditions, etc.

The negotiations leading to the final forms of those issues will go more quickly if the negotiations remain private. Any resulting agreement still needs congressional approval, where all the details are out in the open. It's not like, say, the California Legislature where deadlines are used to force legislators to vote on bills whose content is only known by the lobbyists.

John
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2015 - 11:30am PT
Great post John.

Indeed. China owns the solar panel business mainly because they are able to produce them without much concern for the environmental side effects (and cheap labor); the US simply cannot be compete, their wholesale panel cost is below our production cost.

Hopefully the details will out, and we'll have the time to understand what is in the international trade agreements before congress needs to vote on them.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jul 1, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
We're not hearing much about the Iran talks, either.


There's a lot going on here. Kerry, breaking a leg, probably didn't help expediting things.

But Saudi Arabia and half of Yemen, are locked in a war. Big stuff, tank battles, Aircraft bombings of UNESCO sites, bombings of civilians etc etc. It's smothered by so much else going on in the world, but Iran is closely involved with the Houthis. So our "ally" Saudi Arabia, is locked in a war with a country we're negotiating with. It's gotta be awkward.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
China subsidizes their solar industry

America sucks money from the solar industry because the Fossil Fuel Industry has more money to buy off the politicians, and they don't want America using Solar because they're lost profits.
It's all about big money, Trillions of dollars are at stake, to hell with the green house gases! Screw the future, cash in now, burn every last drop and then we can worry about what to do.

We could be swimming in solar if our Country subsidized the industry at the same level as the oil companies, which get at least $4 billion in subsidizes per year.

Some states have even started taxing Solar just to make it less appealing to customers, all because of the Oil lobbyist pressure

Our Country is sooo F-ed up.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 1, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 1, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11712237/US-blocks-attempts-by-Arab-allies-to-fly-heavy-weapons-directly-to-Kurds-to-fight-Islamic-State.html
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 1, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
Just for clarity:

Yes China owns the inexpensive ,p.o.s.,cheaply made, undependable solar panel market.

It must be a west coast thing,because it is hard to find anything but US made panels and hardware over here.[unless you order the junk on the internet].

Dependable ,long lasting stuff of the top 5 producers are almost completely made here,including the racking and mounting hardware.Not to mention the wiring.They are the industry standard.



And Yes I am proud.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 2, 2015 - 04:20am PT
Big difference between eating honey and high fructose corn syrup
Physiologically speaking? Yes, you are more likely to get botulism from honey than HFCS. Otherwise, no difference.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 3, 2015 - 06:44am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
Flag flying over Havana...about time.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
Flag flying over Havana...about time.

Dissidents still imprisoned. About time that ends.

John
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
Vote all Republicans out, they have sold us out and have nothing but more destruction of our Country for profit.

Yeah, and that's why you'll vote for ANY Demoncrat, including the Hillabeast, who is SOOOOOO much better in this regard.

LOL
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
Dissidents still imprisoned. About time that ends.

True, we've never recognized a regime that imprisons dissidents.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
So, Crankster, how would you like to see Al Gore enter the process?

Perhaps to give Hillary some healthy competition honing the issues and what not.

Could be exciting, I think. :)
dirtbag

climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:32pm PT



Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here

Aug 14, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
Dissidents still imprisoned. About time that ends.

True, we've never recognized a regime that imprisons dissidents.

If we just give it another 50 years then they will all be free.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
Cragman, do you have amnesia? You must have forgotten the last Republican president left us with an economy on the verge of total collapse, the worst since the Great Depression. Oh yeah, and an administration asleep at the wheel on 9/11, invaded the wrong country searching for non-existent WMD, destabilizing the region that allowed ISIS to grow into the threat it is today.

That's the mess your guy left. How's life today for you? Economy doing better? Unemployment way down from the Bush debacle? Seen any planes flying into buildings? Are you aware Obamacare is a success? Are you aware congress won't shut down Gitmo?

I know one thing, you won't get over amnesia watching Fox.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
Crankster, right on.

Cragman, at least Obama doesn't evoke a 2,000 year old Middle East mythology as part of his problem solving philosophy. Kudos for that.

Gotta grow up sometime, take reality as is and work from there.

There is some talk out there that Al Gore is pondering.
Where there's smoke there's fire?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:52pm PT
There's a lack of enthusiasm for an establishment figure like her

Come ON! Call it what it is, if you dare.

But you can't dare, because everybody knows that the "establishment figure" is bought, sold, and paid for. Worse, she has NO interest in reforming what's really wrong with government and the whole election process! The Demoncrats WILL have the Hillabeast foisted off on them, and they WILL vote for the "establishment figure" rather than ANY Rebumblecon, even though they KNOW what she really is. Do you dare to honestly SAY what she really is? The vast majority of Americans (including Demoncrats) DO NOT trust her and think that she is a corrupt liar, because she IS. And the Demoncrats can't come up with BETTER than her?

What would be an interesting race, and one that would actually pit two very different ideologies, while getting past the flagrant corruption that IS the "establishment candidates" on both sides of the aisle, would be Trump vs. Sanders. Those are the only candidates at present that would not have deep "debts to pay" upon entering the White House.

Personally, I find even them both horrific in their own ways. Trump!?! I mean, get serious. And Bernie is a RADICAL socialist, although I respect him as a person VERY much and agree with some of what he says.

Look, give me Sanders, and you just might get me to vote Demoncrat... and that would be ON the idea that Bernie is one of the very few who is not "establishment" in all the sick, corrupt senses of that term.

But at least be HONEST with yourself about what you ARE going to vote for when you ultimately choose the Hillabeast!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
The incipient racisim in today's repugnant party makes it easy for them to recreate history. What we are witnessing is the final gasp of white priviledge in the multi racial society that America has become.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
Cragman, you're right on target, which is why the response to your post is, in fact, nonresponsive. It's funny how the economy tanked after the Democrats took over majorities in the House and Senate, but somehow it's not their fault.

And we're supposed to praise them for giving us the weakest recovery in 70 years? Really? That said, I think Obama has done several things right:

1. He did not intervene in Syria when everyone wanted him to. I believe that our intelligence in the region was - and remains - so bad that any intervention would have helped IS, not moderates.

2. He fought to retain fast track authority, over the parochial interests of his own party. That was an act of principle for which he deserves praise.

3. Under his administration, FEMA has been much more responsive.

4. As weak as the recovery has been, he hasn't tried to mess with the Fed, and at least the economy hasn't reverted to recession. Under the policies of the Carter administration, we'd have had another recession or two.

This may be damning by faint praise, but I could think of far worse fates for the country - including what would have happened had a few Republicans I can think of been elected President.

John
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 14, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
mb, you'll be voting for the libertarian candidate, I presume.

Probably not. If Bernie gets the nomination, I'll probably vote for him, as I've said.

Strange, that movement never gets any traction...maybe people see it as an untested philosophy they want no part of.

That's a hoot. It's the best tested philosophy, as it's the one this nation was founded on. The fact that we've drifted so far from it that we NOW see it as "untested" just shows how philosophically (and historically) ignorant almost everybody in this "great" (not anymore) nation is.

The good thing for you is you never have your candidate win election which allows you a contant reason to complain, if you're into that.

You could not be more incorrect.

"Democrats can't come up with anyone better than her"....well, they haven't come up with anybody yet, the election is over a year from now. Better? Let's see, a brilliant woman, served her country as First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State...that's not too bad a resume.

Choke, snort, guffaw, ROLF.... tears streaming down my face.

As I said, you CANNOT be honest about the Hillabeast that you KNOW the "establishment" IS going to foist off on you, so you HAVE to pretend that she's what you'd really want anyway. It is to laugh.

But I'm not in favor of citizen politicians (ie, no experience). You need to know how the system works to get anything done. That's just being realistic.

Uhh... riiiiightttt! Like your junior senator who was previously a mere "community organizer"? The one you're so proud of now?

Okay. Bye bye now.
Vulcan

Sport climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
Cragman
Very good list.
Here is one more.
The debate on Obama Care will be on CNN.
two-shoes

Trad climber
Auberry, CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:06pm PT
What that donini guy says, he's right on!
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
Cragman, do you have amnesia? You must have forgotten the last Republican president left us with an economy on the verge of total collapse,

Make that the last three Republican presidents.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
John, I'm often intrigued by your stances. On the one hand you are very educated, an economist, and on the other, you make statements like this:
It's funny how the economy tanked after the Democrats took over majorities in the House and Senate, but somehow it's not their fault

I would expect comments like this from someone who doesn't understand the principles of cause and effect and the time delay between them. It is pretty unproductive to tie congressional or presidential responsibility to the economic status during their terms (other than their oblique impact on consumer or business outlook and attitudes for the future), and yet it is a favorite topic of political debates.

You seem like a straight shooter, honest, but I can't reconcile your stances on this. If you said "I like republicans because they support business policies that improve my financial situation" well I can disagree with the motivation for that position but still respect it, understand how it is consistent with your values.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
ODS is incurable.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 14, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
Well, gentlemen, I doubt many minds or party affiliations are going to be changed tonight. Doesn't change the fact that I'm proud of the job this president has done given the difficult task he was presented with. I'm happy to see that flag flying over Havana, too. I was a duck & cover kid in the 60's and I would love to see Cuba become a democracy in my lifetime.
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
Sanders!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 07:12am PT
I'm so proud of my FUTURE president too!

Did you see how She handled those republican regressives
yesterday? all of whom were out for political blood of course.

She was amazing!!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 23, 2015 - 07:19am PT
HFCS, She's formidable as a presidential candidate. No serious Republican insider doesn't recognize this. They must be thinking, "wtf, we're going to send up Donald Trump or Ben Carson to face her?"

It's a year until the election but it's hard to see the crazy party getting it together enough to beat her.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 07:23am PT
So true, Crankster.

Repub retro is shocking - beyond the pale.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 23, 2015 - 07:29am PT
Cragman, do you have amnesia?

No. He firmly believes everything he copy/pastes.

Norton

Social climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 09:41am PT
Jammer

Really?

Explain how Trump or Rubio gets to 270 Electoral Votes to beat her please
dirtbag

climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 09:55am PT
Rubio should get Texas, but I think it would be very challenging for Trump to win there.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 23, 2015 - 10:30am PT
Fructose enjoy while u can


Obama change only went sooooooo faaar then Washington shut him down..


Norton

Social climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 10:43am PT
Obama change only went sooooooo faaar then Washington shut him down..

wrong

no President since as far back as Lyndon Johnson in 1965 got more accomplished
to benefit both the lower and middle classes as President Obama has done

fact is..you can't stand it, you can't handle the truth
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 23, 2015 - 11:14am PT
Norton,

I agree with you.

This is why I think we need another trans-formative candidate, like Donald Trump, to bring innovation along with truth to the table.

:)
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 23, 2015 - 11:24am PT
Norton ur wrong!


Obama caved in..

Sure has done a whole Lotta a nada!
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Oct 23, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
Nada? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

1. He righted George Bush's Titanic debacle.
2. He restored our standing as a reasonable member of the world community.
3. He ended the war in Iraq.
4. He remained engaged with our enemies, diplomatically and with a big stick.
5. He killed Osama Bin Laden
6. Ditto Muhamar Khaddafi
7. He saved Freddie and Fanny and thereby gave the people ultimate ownership of the homes that the banks were and are stealing
8. He opened the door to Universal Health Care.

Nada. Tu no sabes nada. Eres tonto.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Oct 23, 2015 - 02:48pm PT
Read and weep through your tears of peace and prosperity.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/02/15/a-long-list-of-president-obamas-accomplishments-with-citations/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 23, 2015 - 02:51pm PT
Nada meaning a president who hates politics


Nada!
Norton

Social climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 02:53pm PT
careful, there are high school age kids posting on this forum
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 23, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
jammer, the Repub's have an electoral problem even if they slightly increase their Latiino vote percentage from `14. They are headed in the opposite direction on that. Maybe Jeb could stop the bleeding, but he's got a lot of work to do to get the nomination with the crazies running his party.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Oct 23, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
Once he's elected then he's not paid for politics. His job is governance and diplomacy through policy. Most sensible people dislike politics.

You need a dictionary.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 23, 2015 - 03:47pm PT
Most sensible people dislike politics.

true just like u and i.. were rational... presidency calls for more to be on-top of the political pinnicle

if u thinks i need a dictionary then good for u flop flip
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Oct 23, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
You're all over the place.

He dominated the political arena. And now he is doing a commendable job as President.

It's we're. And there is no we. I'm sensible. You're something else.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 23, 2015 - 04:05pm PT
He dominated the political arena

wrong!


edit:

8. He opened the door to Universal Health Care.

more like universal insurance companies take care
Norton

Social climber
Oct 23, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
^^^

why do some people vote Republican?

they actually like disastrous foreign policy, economic recession, big government passing laws telling Americans what they can't do in their private lives?
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Oct 23, 2015 - 07:17pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Oct 30, 2015 - 09:40am PT
Our sharia loving Islamist president is sending Americans to kill sharia loving Islamists in Syria.

https://www.google.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/31/world/obama-will-send-forces-to-syria-to-help-fight-the-islamic-state.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/

Or maybe this is his Marxist-Leninist side showing?

Or he's jealous that the Syrians have more realistic birth certificates?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 30, 2015 - 09:56am PT
I think overall his foreign policy is not very good. Below par. I attribute this to him being totally wet behind the ears on international politics to begin with, and then arming his cabinet with nincompoops who gave him bad advice.

I have issues with his cabinet and advisors generally, but I don't see those poeple causing his middle east policy failures. Our intelligence there and, I suspect, in many other foreign locations, stinks. If you want people to blame for that, I'd suggest Richard Nixon and Frank Church. Nixon for abusing CIA powers, and Church for overreacting and essentially eviscerating it. That's why United States midlle east policies has been so full of failures for 40 years.

John
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 30, 2015 - 10:27am PT
His drone program is so kewl!! The two posts above are hella more accurate than most of his drone strikes.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 30, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
To the Russians I say:

Welcome to a very complicated and messy shell game in which there are no peas under the shells......
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 30, 2015 - 01:00pm PT
"but I don't see those poeple causing his middle east policy failures. "

No, you can place the blame for unrest in the ME pretty squarely on the Republican shoulders of GWB & Cheneyco.

As bad as Hussein was, the various factions stayed under control while he was in power. Colin Powell said it best: 'you break it, you bought it.'
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 30, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
Are you better off than you were before Obama? Across the board, the answer is yes.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/30/are-you-better-off-than-you-were-before-obama-across-the-board-the-answer-is-yes/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 30, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
Imaging a John McCain win in '08.....if his VP hadn't already quit or been impeached, we'd be looking at Sarah Palin in the debates.

Of course, if McCain won, we'd be mired in another war somewhere.

All in all, a very good 7 years. Unless you're a Republican who thinks America sucks.


mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Oct 30, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
Best president for me In the years he has been in office my stock market account has grossed me more than my teaching job. Not that I make that much but do ok at the top of the pay scale for a small town, about 80 k. He has save the American economy.
couchmaster

climber
Oct 30, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
So what if we finally are not sticking our noses into everyone elses business dingus? I say let them have it. Maybe we can have peace.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 30, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
Double your meds and up the O2 in the bunker, Forum Bully. Just babbling like a damn caveman, endlessly.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Oct 30, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
Everyone knows McCainloon was on lock down and trying to do Nuland doggy-style while the Putinator pushed the button...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 30, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
I'll be proud to see your president go. Maybe afterwards he can vacation in the middle east with McCain and Graham in the beautiful Arab spring.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 30, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
I was going to vote for McCain, with major reservations, until he brought Palin on as his VP.

I've voted for Obama twice & have no regrets. (of course in Idaho, the state always votes for the Republican presidential candidate.)

From 2009 to now have been the best earning years of my life & during those years, I have also enjoyed the outrage of all those in our society that just hate having a black liberal president.

Here's our Palin 2008 Halloween mask for your enjoyment.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 30, 2015 - 08:47pm PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 31, 2015 - 08:24am PT
We don't control world events.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 09:15am PT
Crankster, an exciting discovery. I just learned I've got a new hero (heroine) in Congress: Tulsi Gabbard (D, Hawaii) appeared on Bill Maher last night.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HXaCpG4LV4


Worth keeping an eye on her, I think. Only 34 years old too.
Hope springs.



1 words matter 2 proud liberal 3 radical islamic extremism 4 ideological war 5 thrill seeking (lol)
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 31, 2015 - 09:33am PT
Thanks for that link, HFC. Looks like the DNC is in excellent hands.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 31, 2015 - 10:41am PT
Yes I'm proud of President Obama, B+ domestic, C- Foreign, a real bang up job.

id give him an F for failing to keep his domestics connected..

id give him an F for failing to keep Putin in a cage..


HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 31, 2015 - 10:46am PT
John M

climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 10:55am PT
HFCS posted a very good video with very good points.

Hopefully everyone will watch it. Including you Jody and you Pyro




Pyro, which president has gotten good grades from you and why?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 31, 2015 - 10:59am PT
Pyro, which president has gotten good grades from you and why?

so far Theodore "Bull Moose" gets an A
John M

climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:00am PT
How about a more current president..
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:15am PT
the DNC is something to look at:

the Chair is a minority woman,
3 of 5 vice chairs are women, all minority.
the Executive Director is a white woman.


Not what you see on the RNC.

Demonstrates different visions of the future.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:41am PT
So yous guys are still giving Obama a Mulligan on his Pentagon ball-cupping
concerning the new strategic bomber, aren't you? You whine about Repub
resistance to social projects yet all I get are crickets when he commits
to $200-300 BILLION for a white elephant project? What a bunch of
hypocrites.
John M

climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:46am PT
don't like it Reilly.. but also don't know enough about it.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:50am PT
already said I'm not a fan of the $800B waste. Figured it's some backroom dealing in the form of a "compromise".


CHIRP!




on a side note winds aloft just grounded me. was to be my first solo away from KBDU.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:54am PT
Yeah, Nat, I've been thinking of yer soloing at this time of year. As you
obviously know the Front Range can be gnarly at this time of year. Glad
to see you being cautious - keep the shiny side up!

signed,
Mountain WaveRider and Rotor Thrasher


John M, we need a new strategic bomber like we need a collective hole in the head.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
So yous guys are still giving Obama a Mulligan on his Pentagon ball-cupping
concerning the new strategic bomber, aren't you? You whine about Repub
resistance to social projects yet all I get are crickets when he commits
to $200-300 BILLION for a white elephant project? What a bunch of
hypocrites.

Few of us are schooled in the art of warfare. Obama certainly not.

This brings up the issue of relying on expertise in highly technical fields. Reilly, you work in a hospital. If there is a decision to be made on a highly technical piece of equipment used only in a place where you are not stationed (the Operating Room?) costing millions, for something you don't do, how do you decide?

I think this is much of what goes on with the military. Add on top of it, the backroom deals that ensure that if generals get the programs through, they have a cushy job
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:42pm PT
Ken, I don't work in a hospital but I have stayed at Holiday Inns and I was
in the Navy and I've maintained, if not improved, my grasp of military topics.
Comparing a strategic bomber to a piece of equipment in an operating room is
a lousy analogy, unless you mean buying an outdated piece of equipment that
is of marginal utility, at best. In the era of cruise missiles at $1 million
or less apiece strategic bombers that cost a BILLION apiece represent
cost effectiveness akin to playing Russian Roulette. And sending those bombers
against the likes of Russia or China would be exactly a game of Russian Roulette.
They're only effective against enemies like Serbia or ISIS and we're not
using them there because they're too expensive and the targets aren't well
behaved enough to stand still long enough - it takes at least 12 hours to
send a B-2 to the Middle East!

The real issue is your misguided assumption that Pentagon generals are experts.
They're only expert in kissing ass and playing the game of 'Climb the Rank Ladder'
so you can help shepherd another useless weapons system through the bureaucracy
and secure your retirement tenure with Northrop, et al. The ONLY Air Force
bomber built in the last 50 years that is worth a sh!t is the B-52. The
F-111, the B-1, and the B-2 have all been a monumental waste of money. Most
ironically, the most successful planes of the last 40 years, the F-16 and A-10,
were planes the Air Force brass fought tooth and nail against!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:59pm PT
Wrong Reilly, sorry.

Reilly, I don't think you understood my point, which is if you are in a situation in which you are discussing something very technical, in which you don't have that technical expertise, how do you decide?

Most times, one is stuck relying on technical experts to guide you.

I think it is very difficult to say, as a non-military expert, that you will ignore the advice you are getting that says that not approving a program will result in making the entire air fleet obsolete and easily vulnerable to enemy aircraft and anti-aircraft weaponry.

Your call.

I also think that it is fallacious logic to look at things AFTER the fact and ascribe much to the correctness of decisions beforehand. You didn't have that information before, so you can't point to it after.

John M

climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
I've seen it in the corporate world, Reilly has seen it in the military, we have all seen it in politics.. The meanest, dumbest, basest people rise to the top. Somehow we have to figure out how to get rid of these people.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 31, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
Ken, you don't get it. The strategic bomber is NOT a technological answer
to an existing problem. It is a solution in search of a problem that went
away years ago. Strategic bombing is kaput, capisce? Strategic bombers
have almost a ZERO survivability rate against any foe other than Bumfukistan
and a cruise missile can perform the same mission at a fraction of the cost
with no personnel risks. What part of that don't you get?

Read it twice if you have to, then you can feel like a general if you still
don't get it.
John M

climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
I believe what Ken is driving at is how does someone with little or no military experience refute the military hierarchy in what the military needs. I believe what you say about the bomber, but how do I know that you are correct about its survivability except that I trust your opinion. Especially when the military establishment is saying its needed. Thats partly why I haven't had a very strong opinion. I don't feel that I am expert enough to have one. What you say makes sense to me and I have heard it before, which is why I have been against the bomber. But not strongly against it because its difficult for someone without military experience to stand up to the military establishment. So the thinking is to let them hash it out, hoping that they decide wisely. When they prove that they can't decide wisely, then we have to move to get rid of them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 31, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
the thinking is to let them hash it out, hoping that they decide wisely

History is unblinking and quite unanimous that 'deciding wisely' is not what
the Pentagon does. They decide selfishly and nihilistically, but rarely wisely.
I strongly encourage you all to read

Boyd, The Fighter Pilot Who Changed The Art Of War.

It should be sub-titled "How Stupid, Short-sighted, and Mendacious Can Generals Be?"
Or, "How the Pentagon works to the detriment of the American people."

Boyd single-handedly changed way aerial combat was fought. Then he single-
handedly changed the way aircraft are designed. He also changed the way
ground wars are fought - SINGLE-HANDEDLY!

Then he single-handedly created the Pentagon Reform Movement. Then they ran him
out of Dodge - mendacious nihilists DO NOT LIKE honest men of principle.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 31, 2015 - 03:27pm PT
We don't control world events.
--Crankaloon

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 31, 2015 - 05:10pm PT
HermitCrab wants war. He wants to go to the front lines. He'll go instead of your kid.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 31, 2015 - 05:24pm PT
These mouth breathing dudes that exert their personal shortcomings through tough-talking blowhards and the notion of American exceptionalism all have secret boners for a shirtless Putin-it's so weird!

I guarantee you, Putin will get quagmired in the middle east, screwed in Ukraine, and fuked, in the end, by the humble law professor.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 31, 2015 - 05:51pm PT
I guarantee you, Putin will get quagmired in the middle east, screwed in Ukraine, and fuked, in the end, by the humble law professor.

Exactly the strategy of our president. and the mouth-breathers think he's getting played.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 31, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
Crankster,

have you had any opportunity to get to know Abby Martin?

If so, just curious, what do you make of her?

Eg,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUc8ukdVtMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7Yxic4qKc
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 31, 2015 - 08:57pm PT
Ken, you don't get it. The strategic bomber is NOT a technological answer
to an existing problem. It is a solution in search of a problem that went
away years ago. Strategic bombing is kaput, capisce? Strategic bombers
have almost a ZERO survivability rate against any foe other than Bumfukistan
and a cruise missile can perform the same mission at a fraction of the cost
with no personnel risks. What part of that don't you get?

Read it twice if you have to, then you can feel like a general if you still
don't get it.


Reilly, you must not have been reading my posts for long. If you had, you would see that I have been posting against these types of programs for a LONG, LONG time.

However, it is easy for you to post, and for me to post, when we don't actually have the responsibility.

I have seen you post that you had some military experience. I don't translate that into brilliant strategic training, or acquisition strategy, or planning strategy in war.

Maybe none of these guys know what they are doing. But I don't think you dismiss all generals and admirals out of hand. This starts to cross over into "magical thinking".
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 31, 2015 - 10:15pm PT
More good links, HFCS. She's a baddass.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 31, 2015 - 10:22pm PT
+1 werner I watched both videos zzzz..
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Oct 31, 2015 - 11:24pm PT
Seems to be a bit of a game for oil. Get efficient, support sustainables, refrain from enjoying lower prices at the pump, etc., and maybe we'll see the destabilization of a few mid-asian fundamental regimes, and one old school north-asian oligarchy. China, well, they're getting busy in the east.

p.s. this latest episode has probably been happening since around WWI, and the whole mechanized war, industrial economy thing.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 1, 2015 - 08:12am PT
She sees conspiracies that I don't,

crankloon go take ur meds dude..
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 1, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
DMT,

I think one adds in

4. What are the operational vulnerabilities to the enemies it might encounter?

And I'm not sure how you could plan on the basis of the enemy that you hope to face--natives with spears?---as opposed to the Chinese or Soviets (or proxies).

I think that #4 drives these updates and acquisitions more than anything else.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Nov 1, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
Crankster, re: Abby Martin, pretty much my sense of it so far too. But I hardly know of her. Could be coincidental but she keeps popping up from time to time in my internet travels.

I'll keep an eye on her though. :)

.....

Nature, glad you enjoyed the links.
Bill Maher's great. Proud libs unite!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 6, 2015 - 06:35am PT
Reasons to return to a Republican administration = 0

U.S. employers went on a hiring spree in October, according to government data released Friday morning, adding 271,000 jobs after several months of disappointing growth.

The number blew past analysts’ expectations of about 185,000 positions, a welcome sign that the American economy so far has been able to withstand headwinds from abroad. The unemployment rate dipped to 5 percent, and wages rose at the fastest pace since 2009.

“It was pretty strong," said Steve Kyle, an economics professor at Cornell University. “Nobody should come away from this report frowning and thinking that would have been better.”

The surprisingly robust data provides more evidence that the job market is nearing a full recovery six years after the recession officially ended. The jobless rate peaked at 10 percent in 2009 and is now closing in on what many economists believe is its lowest sustainable level.
October's job gains spanned a broad swath of industries. Administrative and support services added 46,000 workers, slightly topping the number of jobs added by the health care industry. Retailers and restaurants added more than 40,000 positions each, while construction employment increased by 31,000.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 6, 2015 - 07:05am PT
as opposed to seven years ago when we were losing 80,000 jobs a month. Yeah, let's make america great again.

f*#king mouth breathers.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Nov 6, 2015 - 07:36am PT
Norton

Social climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 08:11am PT
So Hermit Master

why do you vote Republican if you are SO concerned about the national debt?

your party has been in control of Federal Spending since 2010 when they took over
the House, as you know the Constitution gives the House spending authority.

The Republican House has added 4 trillion dollars to the debt since they took over.

Why do you vote for Republicans?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Nov 6, 2015 - 08:32am PT
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 6, 2015 - 08:32am PT
So Hermit Master

why do you vote Republican if you are SO concerned about the national debt?

your party has been in control of Federal Spending since 2010 when they took over
the House, as you know the Constitution gives the House spending authority.

The Republican House has added 4 trillion dollars to the debt since they took over.

Why do you vote for Republicans?

Oh boy.... let's blame the party controlling the House.

In '06, the GOP controlled House passed a budget with a 161 Billion dollar deficit.

Then the Dems took over, adding 4.465 Trillion Dollars to the debt. Three of those deficits averaged over 1.3 Trillion Dollars.

Since the GOP regained control, deficits have steadily dropped, with the 2015 budget less than 1/3rd of the last Democrat budget.

* This is where you come back blaming Bush.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 08:56am PT
Debts rise during recessions.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 6, 2015 - 08:59am PT
Keep being proud!

He just rejected Keystone. BOOM!

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2015/11/breaking-obama-will-reject-keystone-xl-pipeline

he's talking right now.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 09:10am PT
In '06, the GOP controlled House passed a budget with a 161 Billion dollar deficit.

don't forget that the republicans were doing some fancy dancing with the Budget. Every year of the Iraq war they kept asking for more funds, after the budget was done. In 2006 Bush asked for 94 billion dollars. The next year it was 154 billion..

Plus those first years of Obama involved a crushed economy and the bail outs.

The national debt doubled under Bush. So he isn't all that clean.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 09:17am PT
I never did understand the objection to the keystone pipeline.

We burn oil. Thats a fact. we have hundreds of pipelines. Pipelines move oil safer and cheaper without burning a lot more fuel, which is what trucks do. So Why is this one different? If the route is the problem, then why not change the route?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 6, 2015 - 09:20am PT
The Gloom and Doom Party hates good news for the country. Good news goes against what Limbaugh & Hannity feed them on a daily basis. Buncha sadsacks.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 6, 2015 - 09:30am PT
I never did understand the objection to the keystone pipeline.

It would have caused catastrophic global warming.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:25am PT
John asked
We burn oil. Thats a fact. we have hundreds of pipelines. Pipelines move oil safer and cheaper without burning a lot more fuel, which is what trucks do. So Why is this one different? If the route is the problem, then why not change the route?

Because the route proposed is probably the least contentious one which is why it was proposed to begin with. Additionally, none of that oil is directly used by the US. It's all headed for China. I don't have a strong opinion on the pipeline itself. This one isn't much different than all the rest of the many pipelines that already exist, it's just the one that people decided to throw a huge fit about.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:30am PT
it's just the one that people decided to throw a huge fit about.

which is the part that I don't get.

Plus oil is a world market. More oil available keeps the price down. Making oil harder to get in order to drive the price up which would cause people to use less is I guess the reason they are against it.

But to me it just means the oil will go to a different refinery and the jobs will go there. Though that isn't all bad because refineries do have their own issues, such as pollution. But we need oil. We have the refineries. If we don't use them, then we will lose them and become even more dependent on other countries. It just seems kind of backwards thinking to me.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:34am PT
HD, where did you see that the oil is headed to China? If that were the
case wouldn't the pipeline go to the west coast?

Obama's nixing of it is like another regressive tax on the less well off.
It's all well and good to do things to wean us off of oil but this hardly
does that. All it can do is make it more expensive.

ps
John M, sorry to play the parrot. ;-)
dirtbag

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:34am PT
A lot of it has to do with opposing development of a remote area in Canada, too.

But yeah, I share your point. I oppose the pipeline, but I think the issue is mostly symbolic on both sides. Conservatives have vastly overstated its impact on jobs.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:36am PT
Reilly, I'm wild ass guessing here, but I'd imagine that placing a pipeline over the Rockies and coast ranges would be formidable.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:39am PT
No more formidable than the Alaska Pipeline although these days it would
be a lot more expensive. But, the AK's safety record is virtually unblemished,
save one drunk with a rifle.

BTW, the Canucks already have a pipeline to Vancouver from the Alberta fields.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:52am PT
This would force investors hands into investing in green technology,

If this is the reason, then I can accept that.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:57am PT
Jammie, the investors have already delivered their verdict on 'green tech'.
That's why VW's stock price has plummeted. We're a long time away from
ridding ourselves of oil and making it more expensive can only drive technology
so far and so fast. Besides, wouldn't it be better just to use it all up
as fast as possible?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 6, 2015 - 11:03am PT
I oppose the pipeline, but I think the issue is mostly symbolic on both sides. Conservatives have vastly overstated its impact on jobs.

Yup, and as the president also said the impact on the environment/APGCC was overstated.

besides overstating the impact on jobs my biggest issue with this is tar sands oil is the dirtiest of the dirty. Keep it in the ground. Period.

But make no mistake - i'm all for alternative energy. But we'll need fossil fuels to wean ourselves from fossil fuels. The problem is those bought and paid for by the Kock brothers have no interest in the weaning process (but they'll go along with it so long as the payoffs continue).
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 11:04am PT
That's why VW's stock price has plummeted

I would disagree with this interpretation. VW's stock went down because they were caught cheating. Which means their systems aren't really environmentally friendly and people want environmentally friendlier systems.

They sold more vehicles because the vehicle supposedly met higher standards. More sales meant more investment. Now that its proven that they don't meet higher standards, then investors realized that they would have fewer sales, and thus pulled their investments.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 6, 2015 - 11:05am PT
John M - exactly.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 11:27am PT
Yep John.

Dmt--the trust is broken, for years, if not permanently.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 6, 2015 - 11:39am PT
Yous guys need to brush up on yer reading comprehension, in particular the
phrase 'tongue in cheek'. ;-)

And for the record, walking around Europe with all those wee diesels spewing
merrily away, presumably in conformance, is not particularly enjoyable,
especially when they burn out from a stoplight.

I'm also open to a wager that VW's sales will be back to today's level
within two years, at the longest. People just gotta have their Fahrvergnügen!
What else they gonna buy, Renaults and Fiats? OMG!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
Nature wrote:
he's talking right now.

Of course, but when does he stop? (ha ha)
Keystone is now an easy decision anyhow.
Oil is down to where the tar sands in Canada are getting too expensive to produce.

And Dirtbag is right, deficits increase during recessions, but too big to fail?
Crony capitalism at it's finest, supported by the establishment of Washington DC and Wall St.
Congress has the purse strings, Presidents set the tone and have veto power, so it takes 2 to tango.
Reagan's deficits, Bush's deficits and Obama's deficits are bi-partisan.
Printing money is intended to inflate our way out of debt. Wouldn't be the first time.
As usual, small business and the middle class fund the left and the right's pet agenda's.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 12:41pm PT
I believe that the issue with too big to fail is that we have allowed institutions to get so big that if they fail, they can bring down the nations economy with drastic effect. I believe it was the right idea to save those companies because if we didn't, we would have entered a depression, which would have been even more costly. Instead, once we saved them, then we need to start figuring out how to limit their size so that they aren't anymore "too big to fail". We did that in part with the laws on monopolies. Now we need the next level.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
My response here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2713449&tn=0#msg2713461
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 16, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
Oh I am going to miss him...

He speaks so thoughtfully and eloquently of the election, the gameplay with Russia and Putin, the hacking and Hillary...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

30m6s start

https://youtu.be/Dfh342F96fs?t=30m6s
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 16, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
The Iran Deal may be the Nixon/China moment of our generation as long as Trump doesn't fuk it up.

The Sunnis have f*#ked us behind our backs for 30 years. Saudi Arabia will continue to fund our enemies, keep women in bondage and stuff democracy at every opportunity.

The maturation of Iran's, tech savvy youth movement is down the road a bit but the potential for commonality holds much more potential for gaining a regional alli than the Ray-Ban wearing, bearded dicks in white robes.

Israel is certainly doing us no favors.

MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Dec 16, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
HFCS: He speaks so thoughtfully and eloquently . . . .

From a management / leadership perspective, that may not always be important. There are times when articulation is not the primary skill needed to evolve an organization.

Things come and go. You gotta be flexible and adaptable. Almost no one has those skill sets proven. At the end of the day, in my view, communities go after what they need in the next phase. That person and those skills, too, will go stale. There appears to be no real Renaissance Leader or Manager, other than the proverbial Philosopher King. (Where’d he go?)

You can only lead what you (i) understand and (ii) have a good vision for. Those two qualities are tricky to put together. They require minor deities, kind of. Being perfectly in tune with your times is a gift from God. It takes a great connection to the unconscious to make that happen. In that, you are just a pawn. In that, take your place and BE.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 16, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
He speaks so thoughtfully and eloquently . . . .

When he first assumed office there were a lot of ers and uhs, but he became more polished as time went on. That's not to say he improved as president, but his speaking skills were honed.

I agree with MikeL.



My observation: Community Organizer & Chief does not make a great president.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 17, 2016 - 04:12am PT
If I had an unlimited credit card that I never had to worry about paying back I would be able to buy my way out of a lot of problems also.

I would agree Jebus, $10 trillion dollars is a helluva party.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 17, 2016 - 07:03am PT
What will his legacy look like?

Inequality amongst U.S. citizens grows
Healthcare safety net looks fleeting
Still dropping bombs around the world
Still lots of angst with China, Russia, and North Korea
Iranian deal could be fleeting
Big donor issues continue to influence elections
Congress is still overwhelmingly populated by non-working class backgrounds

He hasn't raised the benchmark required to be president that high. He's being followed-by a serial tax avoiding, sexual predator with a penchant for race-baiting.

Hope and Change was just a hollow talking point. Remember all the gushing over his "New Beginning" speech in Cairo? And then we had Benghazi and the rise of ISIS. JV team? Nice call Mr. President.

Post racial America? IMO race relations are at a 40 year low. I think our president first made his leanings clear with "the Cambridge police acted stupidly".

I had not recently given Obama's style much thought. Then I saw what he had to say about Russian hacking and his "tough talk" to Putin. More paper tiger rhetoric.

Would it be fair to say Mr. Obama help set the national tone that allowed Donald Trump to become our next President? Thanks a lot, Barry.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 17, 2016 - 07:21am PT
There is nobody prouder of the president than the president himself.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 17, 2016 - 07:28am PT
that may not always be important.

Of course. But often it is. And often it does reflect an underlying greater depth of wisdom esp relevant obviously to strong solid leadership and the complex social games in today's politics, foreign and domestic.

Good post, Jebus.

I agree with MikeL.

No surprise there.

This truly is the United States of Amnesia. Just as the Pres pointed out in his opening remarks in aforeposted video, where was the country in 2008 regarding the economy, foreign wars, international standing, etc and where is it today? How easy it's forgotten or by some, many tens of millions actually, just never known in the first place.

The devil's in the details, Plumber Joe.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Dec 17, 2016 - 08:06am PT
I’d say vision is relatively easy. It’s what the mind does automatically, non-stop it seems. Look at how easy and often vision shows up here on this thread. Everyone has their own vision of how things should be.

A great orator sells vision better than others. All the better if that person has charisma.

What’s really difficult is management, mainly implementation skills. Anyone can come up with a halfway decent plan to do this or that, but getting folks to rally round it, get in line, pull together, do their part, communicate, coordinate, and integrate . . . all that tends to take a big, manipulative, ego that has wide, deep, and intimate relationships with folks who control resources, with gatekeepers to other communities and factions, who monitor performance, and hold people’s feet to the fire for the commitments that they made. (My list is incomplete; there are so many things needed to become a great organizational architect.)

Given a choice between a great vision with mediocre implementation skills versus a lesser vision with great implementation skills, I’ll take the latter. Anyone who says, “Aw, it’s easy to manage people . . . you just tell them what to do,” is ignorant and naive. Getting great folks to sign up and from different groups to work together is way harder than it would seem. (And a U.S. President hasn’t that many buttons or levers to push—surely less than a CEO.)

I’d submit Lyndon Johnson as an astute politician (especially when he was still in Congress)—and look at how poor he’s been portrayed by history as a U.S. President. By comparison, JFK, the darling of the country purportedly accomplished very little in his brief stint in office (god rest his soul).

couchmaster

climber
Dec 17, 2016 - 08:56am PT


If I was a betting man (I am), I'd bet a lot of Obama haters will be reflecting wistfully that there are Presidential term limits and would be happily welcoming President Obama back after 3 years of President Trump.


Hope I'm wrong about Trump. Still not as bad of a choice as Hillary IMO.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 17, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
BO did make a valiant attempt to extricate the US from combat, as he promised. However, it's not enough to declare victory if the opposition doesn't declare defeat. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Iran treaty. To me it appears BO gave away far too much to a terrorist nation that continually threatens to annihilate Israel.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 17, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
Did anybody hear the entire press conference the other day?

It was excellent, one of his best I thought.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 17, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Barry has always had mad teleprompter skills. That's why he's alive.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 17, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
Shut up. It wasn't teleprompter, it was questions and answers. Ever heard of a press conference?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 17, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
I don't think either of us know what you are saying, but I'm sure you'll get 8 or so more hours in of that today ;).

Do you, like, do anything?

Do you? I made some food today in the cold weather. You spend another 8 hours ballcupping your spender-in-chief?

The $10 Trillion dollar man....
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 17, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Oh yeah. You're such a strong contributor. Lol. You do sooo much more than me. $10T
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 17, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
Hahaha. But your spew resonates so much more....lol
F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 17, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
I want to hear more about the "statists". That always gets me all





Zzzzzzzzzzzz..........



(I'm sharpening picks and pons right now. First day off from touring in over a week. Going climbing tomorrow. Just swung by to make sure you kids are still talking in circles while stuffing yourself with Cheetos.)
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 17, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
Hunting ducks in the corn tomorrow if you want come along F. Nice to see you still whining.
F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 17, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
What?!?

You're gonna go play with your penis extension in the corn tomorrow?!??
That is a huge surprise.
We all thought you were gonna go climbing. Really we did.
Oh yeah. You don't do that anymore. Too busy echoing what you heard on AM radio on your way to Denny's.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 17, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
Do you even climb bro?
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Dec 17, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Obama took office when our country was in the face of economic collapse, thanks to 8 years of idiot republicans fuking everything up.

Now, after 8 years of Obama, things are WAY better than they were.

Americans are idiots to elect another republican when America is currently doing fine.....after it was doing bad.

We need 8 more years of Democrats.

But we are fuked. Gonna miss Obama. Big time.

Now we have a ass hole for potus.

Fuk Russia.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 18, 2016 - 07:58am PT
OBAMA RATED 5th BEST PRESIDENT IN OUR HISTORY


From a total of 44 US Presidents: Obama is rated as the 5th best. The Public Relations Office released this statement "After 8 years in office, Americans have rated President Obama the 5th best President ever."

These are the details according to the study:
1. Reagan & Lincoln tied for first,
2. Twenty three presidents tied for second,
3. Seventeen other presidents tied for third,
4. Jimmy Carter came in fourth, and
5. Obama came in fifth.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 18, 2016 - 09:50am PT
world of hate
Tom Turrentine

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 18, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Obama has been the coolest and steady hand in government in a generation - unless you prefer military bluster and adventure as well as boom and bust economic cycles, things are better for the US:

I think the results of this steady hand are:

1. reduced US military casualties and entanglements worldwide to near zero (Obama frustrates those who prefer a more belligerent stance-folks like "Mad Dog " -will lead us to the sacrifice of willing young americans so we can appear "tough"
2. steady economic growth for 5-6 years, including saving a near bankrupt US car industry, giving US steady job growth for several years in a row, a booming stockmarket - from 7000 - to almost 20,000 DOW ( I think this is a bit overheated) I'm a firm supporter of the idea of 2-3% growth is good for the mature US economy- aiming for faster growth - 3-4% will be unstable. The last thing we need is another real estate boom...
3. improved and extended health coverage to millions of young workers, veterans, low income, persons with existing conditions and moderate income - of course heath care costs are too high, but this will allow younger Americans to take more economic risk and start new businesses.
4. Began to move the US back into competition in modern , smart energy economy (wind, solar, batteries, high energy electronics). Climate change is in motion, and the energy sector will transform steadily over next twenty years - coal and oil extraction pols from Kentucky, Wyoming, Texas and Oklahoma who can now slow progress here will cause the US to cede leadership to other more aggressive national energy sectors around the world - perhaps even dooming the US to become a fossil fuel backwater like Russia.

Last night I watch a BBC documentary about Hitler (I'm not saying Trump is Hitler)!! but it was uncanny how HItler's main shouting point was he will "make Germany great again". Those who want to go back in time are usually don't make things great again....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 18, 2016 - 10:52am PT
Tom...thanks but many Republicans are blind to reality and all about voting along party lines no matter how whacked out their candidates is...Blaming Obama for the great depression and not W is proof of this blind allegiance...I'm not sure what constitutes a great president but i'm thinking Trump will bump Obama up a notch in the standings...?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 18, 2016 - 11:27am PT
LOL....Thanks Sandusky...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 18, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
Probably won't be real long before the majority of the those that voted for Trump, start to realize their error...

I wouldn't be so sure......its been 8 years and there are still some that haven't realized theirs.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 19, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
Way, WAY Better. Like $10 TRILLION dollars better. Which is a LOT better.....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 19, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
Escolater....W squandered clintons surplus and passed it on to Obama...But go ahead and revise history to support your political leanings...
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Dec 19, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
US debt was 10 trillion in 2008. By the end of the of 2016 the debt will be 20 trillion. That's 10 trillion dollars in 8 years folks. Obama AND Congress doubled our national debt in 8 years. That works out to about $31,000 that Uncle Sam borrowed for every person in this country.

Trump AND Congress will no doubt continue the deficit spending because that's just how it works nowadays. No difference between the R's and the D's in terms of tax and spend. No one has the courage to tighten the belt. We will go the way of Rome in due time.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 19, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
We will go the way of Rome in due time

We will be invaded by the Goths???
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Dec 19, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
Obama doubled the national debt!!!!!!

Don't forget congress signed off on all of it. Maybe it was necessary?

Do you think McCain / Palin would have done better? LOL.
Jorroh

climber
Dec 19, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
Awesome Cragnshag...its great to have a national debt expert on board.

The raw numbers don't really tell the story though, do they?
Why don't you use your vast expertise and break it down for us a little.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 19, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
I shook the hand of someone who shook Obama's hand. Top that!

BFD, I shook Walt Disney's hand!
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 19, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Put out that ziggurat,young man!
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Dec 20, 2016 - 10:46am PT
Rincon-
Obama doubled the national debt!!!!!!

Don't forget congress signed off on all of it. Maybe it was necessary?

Do you think McCain / Palin would have done better? LOL.

You are so quick to be offended, you didn't read my post very carefully. I even CAPITALIZED "AND" to make my point that Congress was just as responsible for the debt. Further, if you read my post carefully, you will see that my point is that it doesn't matter who is in the White House- R or D, they (AND Congress) will still spend like there is no tomorrow. That should answer your question about McCain and Palin.

And to that other guy who said that I'm an no expert on the US debt... what to say other than that you are correct. But I do know that a massive debt will ruin us sooner or later.

cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Dec 20, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
We will be invaded by the Goths???

LOL, where have you been? This happened a while ago:

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 10:51am PT
Bill Maher promotes Gavin Newsom 2020...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVjv8I0BlU4

Gavin Newsom has the charisma and star power. I've been saying this since Jan 2016 but the Dem powers didn't listen.

In parallel universes far far away (see multiverse theory), Clinton Newsom and Sanders Newsom administrations are about to take office.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
Will this thread disappear on January 20th?

I hope not - free speech and all as interpreted by progressives.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Let's see how he does as governor or in another office. A year ago, I would've said his affair, which was rather nasty, would work against him. But now we have a president elect who appeared in a porno, so all bets are off.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Dingus: http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1585094,00.html
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
DMT, too busy looking at the mountains and missing out on the bay area gossip from a decade ago! I was a fan of Gavin Newsom as mayor of SF and his rising political star until the affair too:

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/AIDE-QUITS-AS-NEWSOM-S-AFFAIR-WITH-HIS-WIFE-IS-2652745.php
http://hubmesh.com/how-did-governer-gavin-newsom-survive-a-career-killing-affair-and-scandal-with-his-aide-s-wife.html

dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
Newsom's ex-wife Kim guilfoyle is a former lingerie model (yay!) who now is a commentator for Fox News and is in the running for a position as trump's press secretary (boo!).
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
sheesh, you guys just had a lesson in how little all that extracurricular stuff counts. What matters first and foremost nowadays is the charisma aka star power. And with Newsom you get progressive sensible smarts, too.

Check out his new family and tell me the "star power" isn't there.



If liberals don't believe in shooting their ownselves in the foot, they should prove it in upcoming election cycles.
WBraun

climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
Obama's foreign policies has been completely criminal especially his secret proxy wars thru the CIA using ISIS and Ala Queda in the Mid East.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Dec 21, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
Kim guilfoyle is a former lingerie model


Also, incidentally, an ADA for San Francisco. Way to cherry pick!
dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2016 - 05:36pm PT

Also, incidentally, an ADA for San Francisco. Way to cherry pick!


Nothing wrong with being a lingerie model.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 26, 2016 - 10:53am PT
And thankfully, he is tying Social Security benefits to gun ownership. If you are deemed by the government as too old to handle your own affairs, you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun....

Yes, sooo proud of our President, $10 Trillion dollars later and all we have is disarming old people. Bravo.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 26, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
TGT... Trans gender bathrooms...? I thought you started wearing diapers...?
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Dec 26, 2016 - 04:27pm PT
Jan 19 is your last chance to say that for at least 4 years
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 26, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
Certainly one of the best Presidents in my lifetime.

Now, enter the ignorant and dangerous Buffoon & Co.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 26, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
I'm curious as to what, exactly, the anti-Obama crowd is going on about in regards to him making our country worse.

Slower than desired job growth? Being Black? Obamacare? Michelle Obama? Drone Strikes? What the f*#k do you hate so much about the guy? If he were a white dude from Florida or some sh#t, he'd be viewed as a middle of the road Democrat. But no, he's the worst president that y'all have ever seen, apparently.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 26, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
Jan 19 is your last chance to say that for at least 4 years

That's HILARIOUS. Even after 8 years most of the Obama apologists are still invoking Bush as the excuse for all manner of things.

Absolutely hilarious.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 26, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
Escopeta... and you're still flogging a dead Hillary...Move on...The 3 ring circus is about to begin...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 26, 2016 - 10:54pm PT
So I have this question: Who IS the President?


At least as long as I've been alive to remember, there has been a tradition with the President-elect: "There is only one President". Those words have been spoken by every one of them when asked about an issue before the inauguration. I have been astonished that Trump has gotten involved with Israel, and with China issues, in direct contradiction of the sitting President. I suppose this is just another form of "political correctness" on the part of all these previous leaders of both parties, and the wisdom involved in it is just worth throwing overboard.

This conversation between right and left commentators borders on the unimaginable:

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, in addition to Israel, what we were sitting here talking about nuclear policy because Donald Trump tweeted, as far as we can tell, out of the blue yesterday, David, that the United States needs to beef up its nuclear arsenal. He did an interview with Mika Brzezinski of NBC this morning and I’m just reading the quote here. He said, “Let it be an arms race, we will outmatch them at every pass and outlast them all.”

So, what does this say?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, one of the things I think about with Donald Trump is what are his words actually attached to? With a normal president like President Obama, he says a word, and that’s because there has been some thought that he’s done and there had been policy papers and there’s been aides and there’s been advisors and then there is a connection to an actual set of policies. And so, the words like have roots into actual stuff.

With Trump, I’m not sure the words have roots. They are emanations of his psyche, but has he thought it through? Is there an argument, is there a policy implication?

Even in this nuclear thing, he says we should be stronger and expand. What does that mean? So, what is concrete in what he’s saying?

And I think as we interpret him and frankly as the world learns to interpret Donald Trump, are these just words that are enigmatic things floating on air or are they actually shifts in policy and will they change moment by moment, day by day without any underlying connection to the actual stuff of governance? I don’t know.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark, we’re talking about nuclear arms policy. This is something that in the past, it was something that people spent time thinking about before statements were made. You know, you said a minute ago, you think he’s keeping everybody off balance. Is this a deliberate strategy?

MARK SHIELDS: Well, I think that’s part of it. The points David make I think really deserve reflection and consideration. I think Donald Trump, we have to understand, has not had experiences like any other president we’ve ever had. He’s never been accountable to anybody, save Donald Trump.

I mean, he has no investors. He has — he has debtors, but he doesn’t have a board of directors. He doesn’t have a corporate structure he’s had to answer to. So he’s been able to kind of wing it at every stage.

I just don’t think he understands — the point David was making is when a president makes a statement, Judy, it is studied around the world, the nuance and was there an emphasis here, and what was in the last statement that’s missing — perhaps overly done, maybe overly analyzed. But because the president’s words are pretentious, they really carry with them enormous significance and are usually reflective of great consideration and even arguments within that one side is wanted, one particular paragraph or sentence, while the other said, no, that shouldn’t be in there.

So, I just think that Trump — he has not made the transition, it seems to me, from candidate to even president in waiting. He has been a sore winner. He continues to in his rallies to berate Hillary Clinton. That sense of gracious, generosity or larger vision has eluded him so far.

DAVID BROOKS: And — so I would say, given, as Mark describes, sort of — he’s not part of a process. And so, I think there are two things that could happen as a result of this.

One, it’s possible to imagine him having relatively little influence on his own government because he will be off in his own world and the agencies and the permanent bureaucracy will just go on and do its merry way. There is a lot of passive aggressive behavior in all governments. It’s very hard to get things done.

But at the same time, because he’s not tied down, there could be a lot of erraticness and he could get caught up, just the macho thing, especially, let’s say Vladimir Putin, or somebody like that, and then more and more erratic with, you know, potentially, some sort of nuclear weapons attached.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Dec 26, 2016 - 11:16pm PT
Don't let the bastards get you down.

Yes, Obama will be missed...Obamacare, maybe not so much.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Dec 27, 2016 - 06:35am PT
I suspect the Presidential transition will be like going from a disappointment to a disaster.
Trump's cabinet picks are dubious at best. If Trump loves winners why did he choose generals who have never won a war? Or bring in the Goldman gang? Or nominate Rick Perry for DOE?
The list goes on. Trump with good advisors might be workable, but with this crew?
c wilmot

climber
Dec 27, 2016 - 06:40am PT
The point is to prolong and enlargen our conflicts in order to profit off death. It's why we are now involved in three wars rather than the two Obama inherited.
Trump is simply cutting out the middle men by hiring former generals
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Dec 27, 2016 - 07:06am PT
Obama did not create ISIS.
ISIS, al-Qaeda, and other groups of their ilk trace their roots back to Afghanistan so the Soviets are one of the ultimate causes. The CIA, ISI, and Saudi Intelligence services provided them with a training, arming, and radicalization program to fight the Soviets.

ISIS was originally al-Qaeda in Iraq. The founder Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was a known terrorist hiding out in Northern Kurdistan just before the American Iraq invasion. The CIA was there watching him. The CIA asked the White House twice for permission to take him and his followers out.
Bush said no.
According to the book Black Flags by Joby Warrick the CIA was turned down because the White House wanted to be able to point to him and say "Look there are known terrorists in Iraq". This was just before Colin Powell's UN speech.
It is true that the Obama administration was lax but the big corporations (govt, military, intelligence) are always slow in waking up to rapidly changing realities. They fight the same war over and over again hoping for different results.
And the Military-Industrial complex is always the only clear winner.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 27, 2016 - 07:20am PT
Don't let the bastards get you down.

Yes, Obama will be missed...Obamacare, maybe not so much.


I may well be wrong but I don't believe the Republicans have the guts to repeal the ACA

"repeal and replace" will not work as anything they replace it with will be worse

drop the mandate and the insurance companies immediately refuse to offer insurance
to people who will cost them more money - "preexisting conditions"

drop the Medicaid expansion and 18 million Americans lose their health insurance

drop the exchanges and another 7 million people lose the low income help and are not covered

people often don't know what they have until its gone, watch the sh#t hit the fan all over the US if the ACA is repealed
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 27, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Yes, I'd like thank him for signing the ICD10 codes law which was the deciding factor in getting
the wife to retire! Having 76,000 codes is really going to help deliver better medical care. But
It will provide lots a new jobs at Medicare so that if a practitioner doesn't cross an 'I' or dot a 't'
they can deny payment and thereby generate more job security paperwork during the appeal.
On the plus side all those people who have been hired at Medicare were saved from having to
get a job at McDonalds or TSA.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 27, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Obama's recent claim about beating Trump if he ran is childish.

Not sure what he hoped to prove or achieve by stooping to Trump's level.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 27, 2016 - 09:39am PT
Obama's point was that the message of the democratic party is not the problem. The campaign, as waged by Hillary was. She didn't know any better than the 18 republican candidates about how to beat him.

And the reason he is putting out this message is that the democrats are now considering how to move forward. There is a large faction that is saying that they failed with a centrist message, and therefore they should lunge strongly to the extreme left.

Obama, a centrist, does not agree. (and for what it is worth, neither do I).
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 27, 2016 - 09:43am PT
childish.

Wrong. It was a very appropriate comment as part of a lengthy and wide-ranging interview.

OBAMA: And -- and win back seats in the Senate. And -- and so, I understand what happened politically.
Two points I would make though, David, because obviously in the wake of the election and Trump winning, a lot of people have -- have suggested that somehow, it really was a fantasy. What I would argue is, is that the culture actually did shift, that the majority does buy into the notion of a one America that is tolerant and diverse and open and -- and full of energy and dynamism.
And -- and the problem is, it doesn't always manifest itself in politics, right? You know, I am confident in this vision because I'm confident that if I -- if I had run again and articulated it, I think I could've mobilized a majority of the American people to rally behind it.
I know that in conversations that I've had with people around the country, even some people who disagreed with me, they would say the vision, the direction that you point towards is the right one.
AXELROD: We're gonna take another short break and we'll be right back with the president.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/politics/axe-files-obama-transcript/
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 27, 2016 - 09:43am PT
I may well be wrong but I don't believe the Republicans have the guts to repeal the ACA

"repeal and replace" will not work as anything they replace it with will be worse

The GOP has a problem, here. The CANNOT allow a gov't program to be ongoing, that is associated directly with a democrat's name. Obama actually has said this a couple of times.

They have to have a change substantial enough to be able to credibly remove the "Obamacare" label....or as time goes on, he becomes enshrined.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 27, 2016 - 10:44am PT
Monday morning quarterback.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 27, 2016 - 11:25am PT
Trump is handing the US to the oil companies and Wall Street - the very people he campaigned against. Pretty hard to drain the swamp when you put the alligators in charge of the job.

He's going to make Reagan look like a Kennedy.

Making America great again just the way Rockefeller, Morgan, Vanderbilt and Carnegie meant it to be.

The man is a psychopath and brilliant at playing the suckers.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Dec 27, 2016 - 11:27am PT
I may well be wrong

Well, if nothing else at least Norton has learned something from all this.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Dec 27, 2016 - 11:32am PT
Shocking to think that Dick Nixon would be considered a communist by some of today's Republicans.
Founding the EPA
Bringing Communist China into the fold.
The Horror! The Horror!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 27, 2016 - 11:56am PT
Not sure what he hoped to prove or achieve by stooping to Trump's level.

Maybe he was using the statement like a matador waves his cape at a raging bull. In other words, an attempt to distract DT the bull$hitter from tweeting taunts aimed at other countries and instead divert his attention to something less problematic to the world's security. God Himself help us if DT ever gets an itch in his crack about North Korea.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Mar 27, 2017 - 08:38pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 27, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
I can sympathize.
slabbo

Trad climber
colo south
Mar 28, 2017 - 10:07am PT
I recently visited the WWI museum in KC, fascinating stuff...the initial film was showing how great the steel and coal industry was in America at the time....I think Trump wants things like that again.....
slabbo

Trad climber
colo south
Mar 28, 2017 - 11:02am PT
We can only hope for another "Taft moment"


Anybody think Trump has EVER been in a national park ????Ever ??

I guess his version or power and jobs for the country doesn't include renewables, NG,, clean air..or whatever ???

Idiot.
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Mar 28, 2017 - 11:09am PT
According to Oscar De La Hoya, Samuel L. Jackson, Alice Cooper, and numerous caddies, yes, in fact Trump is a notorious golf cheat.

Of course Trump denies it, so there's alway that.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 28, 2017 - 11:13am PT

You know - also North Korea's Kim Jong-il was a master golfer

According to his biography, Kim Jong-il first picked up a golf club in 1994, at North Korea's only golf course. He shot a 38-under par round that included no fewer than 11 holes in one.
slabbo

Trad climber
colo south
Mar 28, 2017 - 11:35am PT
Putin scored 6 goals against the Russian national hockey team.. AND was MVP !!!


I flashed Dawn Wall too....
J R

climber
bend
Mar 28, 2017 - 12:01pm PT
Kim Jong Il did actually shoot that score. He dropped a couple bombs on the holes before each shot. The holes were so big...... Hole in one every time.
slabbo

Trad climber
colo south
Mar 28, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
Remember when DJT said " I will have no time for golf"


i think we should have a sharknado in Mara lago..
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jul 30, 2017 - 04:27pm PT
If he vetoes the Russian sanctions bill tonight!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 30, 2017 - 05:17pm PT
Thread title, lol!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 13, 2018 - 12:01am PT
It is now 3 am here, The orange stooge is insultingly staying in Britain, on his way to his handler,putin, he will continue to insult his hosts . . .
well,? soon to be ruskie comrades,
(hope none of you gave away any of your youth,by serving,if you did, do you feel it has all been thrown over ?)
Are you all tucked in, ready for big-sleep, happy in your confidence with The pussy Grabber & Thief?
It will all be, very much the best ever - the best it has ever been.
Make A mess out of all one time alliances, cozy with his fellow kleptocrats. . .Making russia Da' great soviet union again
Have we all seen the new color scheme, the mother russia-que is just what you'd expect the very russian red white & blue, check, & you won't forget it.
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