Climbing Related Staph Infections

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Messages 41 - 60 of total 70 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
matisse

climber
Dec 8, 2012 - 03:03am PT
Ken I gotta modify the do not scrub advice. If there is embedded dirt/ gravel etc you do have to scrub until you get it out, otherwise you end up with a tattoo in the scar..
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Dec 8, 2012 - 05:40am PT
this sounds like a john tesh thread,
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 8, 2012 - 09:21am PT
Holy Moley, Phil! Right there in Hill City!!?

I have actually heard of an uncomfortable amount of similar events.

When my mojo rises I'll send some info about a related case, though it was at first written off as a San Joaquin valley fever variant (endemic to rural Utah, btw!!)

Platinum rob got an almost lethal infection in an existing wound that encountered "the leach fields at the base of el cap"

Another friend here in Moab had a similar el cap related experience that ended up involving, out patient iv antibiotics multiple times a day and removal of necrotic tissue.

Crazy sh#t.
Heal up Phil, we still have bad craziness ahead of us to inflict on an increasingly less unsuspecting world!!


"Steph infection " - moose?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 8, 2012 - 09:28am PT
Scuffy got an infected nodule on his knee on mother superior that festered into a watermelon sized(okay that's an exaggeration) karbuncle that exploded a few weeks later on chingando, in a maelstrom of pus 'n blood. That made his light colored thrift store pants appear to have been epicenter for an amputation. Getting a scream of horror from his hard as nails belayer! I was glad to have put the rope up and not be in need of a TR that day, I'll tell you!!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 8, 2012 - 09:39am PT
Do you mean fresh from the font ? What about stuff picked up along the way and added to holds from shoes in a sticky mixture ?

I'm not being an ass about this. I have a WCB level 2 FA cert and I'm always trying to better understand guck and it's consequences.

I mean fresh, which is a sterile liquid.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 8, 2012 - 09:47am PT
Ken I gotta modify the do not scrub advice. If there is embedded dirt/ gravel etc you do have to scrub until you get it out, otherwise you end up with a tattoo in the scar..

You DO have to get the stuff out, but the damage caused by scrubbing makes me shy away from it, except in the most severe circumstances, and those should not be self-cleaned while drunk.

I far prefer to use pressure irrigation. In ER's in which I've worked or run, my preference was a Water-Pic. There is very little a gallon/two of that won't remove, with little damage. The poor man's version would be a hose, or water poured from a bottle from a height of a couple of feet. Very little tissue damage, and FAR less pain. Of course, I always anesthetize such wounds. I also like using a wet-to-dry dressing technic for removing debris over time, which is very effective for removing the junk.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Dec 8, 2012 - 09:59am PT
We had a pretty good discussion on this subject back about four years ago. "Bacterial infections in the Valley". Here is the link:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=695982&tn=0&mr=0
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 8, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
I far prefer to use pressure irrigation. In ER's in which I've worked or run, my preference was a Water-Pic. There is very little a gallon/two of that won't remove, with little damage. The poor man's version would be a hose, or water poured from a bottle from a height of a couple of feet.

Or, in the field:

 a camelback
 a ziplock bag with a tiny hole in the bottom corner. Fill with water and squeeze to get high-pressure stream.
 a dedicated irrigation syringe in the first aid kit

Pressure irrigation is what they teach in wilderness first aid (and to generally leave the hard core scrubbing to the ER).
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Dec 8, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
Jaybro,
Meybe because it was Steph, the infection wasn't that bad :-))
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 8, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
I believe that hepatitis B has been found in an infectious state in egyptian mummies. It is very hard to kill. Bacteria are easily killed, in contrast. usually minutes or hours.

Thanks, Ken. So of the various things humans are likely to produce and deposit on or near rocks - urine, faeces, and blood in particular - which are a health threat, per se, and how long does it last? It sounds like bacteria in blood die fairly quickly, especially in the open air/sun. What about viruses? How long do faeces take to decompose?

(IIRC, urine in and of itself is sterile, although a fine medium in which to grow things.)
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 8, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
None of you guys were raised on a farm huh?
Captain...or Skully

climber
Dec 8, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
Some, actually, Bruce.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 8, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
Way.....way.....way back when, the Eye at Jtree had a huge raptor nest about half way up and a liberal dressing of bird sh#t.

About a week after the armpit started to swell, couldn't put my arm down past half mast. By the time I got into the doctor the lymph node was the size of a goose egg and the diagnosis was Cat Scratch Fever.

Out came the mini harpoon lance and instant relief followed by a rather large dose of just out of the refrigerator cooooold penicillin.

The lump under the armpit was gratefully traded for a short lived lump on an ass cheek.

I still have an excessive adverse reaction to bird sh#t.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 8, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
So of the various things humans are likely to produce and deposit on or near rocks - urine, faeces, and blood in particular - which are a health threat, per se, and how long does it last? It sounds like bacteria in blood die fairly quickly, especially in the open air/sun. What about viruses? How long do faeces take to decompose?

(IIRC, urine in and of itself is sterile, although a fine medium in which to grow things.)

Blood is the PERFECT medium to grow bugs....in fact, the general type of petri dish we use in the lab is a blood medium. Works great for bacteria, and some viruses. But as it dries, bacteria die rapidly, except for some that create special capsules to protect from drying. Tetanus, for example. Some viruses are very hardy, like the hepatitis types, that withstand drying just fine.

Urine is pretty dilute, and there is generally not a LOT of stuff to grow on, so unless you have a puddle of it, it will dry out pretty fast, and things will tend to die rapidly.

Feces are not a particularly good growth medium, as most of the nutrients have already been consumed. Feces are about 90% bacteria by weight. There may be viruses. However, infectivity decreases rapidly with drying.

Blood is definitely the one I'd be most concerned about.

It's been said that the best way to dispose of feces in the backcountry, when no one will be about, is to smear it on an exposed rock, and let the sun dry it, which it will do in a day or two, killing the bugs. Takes longer in soil.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 8, 2012 - 07:07pm PT
some folks still haven't recovered from their Steph Infections
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Dec 8, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
hey there say, roadkilphil... get well soon as time allows...

very sorry to hear of this... and for anyone, as well...

seems there are enough hard things in the world--it is sad if our bodies
turn against us, in the middle of all that, :(


may the grace abound for our bodies to properly fight this off...
and good open doors of help, to be there, as well...


wash, is always a good thing--our mom's taught us that too...
water, is what she said, too, and soap...
'course, bad then, we really NEVER heard of this 'out of control'
type infection situations... :(


praying and well wishes for you phil!
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 9, 2012 - 01:56am PT
It's been said that the best way to dispose of feces in the backcountry, when no one will be about, is to smear it on an exposed rock, and let the sun dry it, which it will do in a day or two, killing the bugs. Takes longer in soil.

LNT no longer teaches the smear on a rock technique.
gf

climber
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:43am PT
Good thread; I've had a few nasty drug resistant infections that seem to stem from getting cuts in grubby climbing areas. Now i travel with a "wash kit" plus a smoking antibiotic cream and an emerg course of the drug that works for me in cases when i'm somewhere far from good medical attention
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Dec 9, 2012 - 04:22am PT
I've had many bad infections from living in the tropics. In this environment, we rush to the ER for a shot as soon as swelling or redness occurs and we all have current tetanus shots. It's routine here that the ER docs draw a line above and below the wound and tell us to reappear for antibiotic IV's if the redness goes beyond the mark.
We're also told to never use iodine on a wound incurred in the ocean as coral and most marine life are resistant to iodine and it doesn't work.

The main thing that seems to prevent infection for me, is to make a wound bleed, squeezing hard above a tiny skin break if necessary, to make that happen. I continue to do this under running water for awhile before putting on cream and gauze.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 9, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
LNT no longer teaches the smear on a rock technique.

Well, no doubt they do.

but they are purists, concerned with only one thing in their purity.

They are not concerned with health outcomes. They are not staffed with medical professionals. They don't take into account various public health issues.

But anyway, it wasn't the point of the post, which was the infectivity of feces, and how long it remained infective. (which you might consider is considerable, in that plastic bag, or trash can)
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